Would you cover their vet bill?

[Rowreach]

Firstly please be aware I march to the beat of my own drum, on here and elsewhere, my opinions are my own and not part of some 'lynch mob' as you describe it. The fact that some others might have agreed with my opinion (unusual I grant you that, but occasionally it does happen, even on here) has no influence on what I might think and what I might write.



Genuine question here - please explain exactly how you have them so highly trained that they would no longer revert to their natural protective instincts even when being attacked by dogs? If they are tied up and cannot use their flight instinct how would you expect them to respond to said dog or dogs unwanted attention. When they do try to revert to this shameful behaviour of kicking out to protect their most vulnerable body part, how exactly do you 'not allow it' and correct them. I did ask you if you would like to explain what 'giving them what for' entails but you did not see fit to answer?

Just wanted to apologise for agreeing with you twice on one thread

 

[splashgirl45]

well said mrs J...... i would like to know as well, perhaps the horses are more scared of the rider than of the dogs as horse being given what for doesnt sound like a nice caring owner to me. yes horses arent expected to kick out at hounds, but hounds are not as likely to give a horse a bite as some random pet dog who is running amok..

 

[Rowreach]

I mean, I produced a lot of hunters over the years and I can guarantee none of them would have kicked a hound, but I don't think I'd have been able to stop them kicking out at a cur dog that was latched to a hind leg. Hounds ignore horses, they don't attack them.

Having said that, I've known a lot of well trained hunters that will actually put up with a dog attack because they've been trained not to kick, which in itself isn't really beneficial to the horse.

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

Just wanted to apologise for agreeing with you twice on one thread

???? - thats alright you can follow the beat of my drum anytime you like, doubt we would march too far without having a bit of a minor spat on the way though!???

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

Antw23uk please would you be good enough to read part of this thread here in particular my posts number #75 and #77

https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/threads/aggressive-off-lead-dogs-wwyd.796804/page-3#post-14580294

My horse referred to on my post above is also a hunter and is well used to allowing dogs on the hunting field and at our own home running around her from time to time. Do you truly believe, firstly, I should never have allowed my horse to kick out at this particular dog. Secondly I should have given my mare 'what for' for attempting to kick out at this dog to protect herself?

 

[brighteyes]

(I also wouldnt have allowed it, they are trained correctly not to react to dogs being behind them running around and acting unpredictable)

If my horse were attacked or even pestered behind (we ride a LOT on the beach and this is my biggest nightmare) I would pray for it to administer a well-aimed kick. My beautiful KWPN allowed a husky thing to hang off her tail. How I wish she'd booted the loopy thing and its stupid owners into the middle of next week.

All ours are dog accustomed, but our dogs are equally horse aware - though we have to keep an eye on the BC.

 

[canteron]

Just a thought, she might be able to claim on the yards public liability insurance?
Though that may cause more bad feelings.

 

[brighteyes]

Having said that, I've known a lot of well trained hunters that will actually put up with a dog attack because they've been trained not to kick, which in itself isn't really beneficial to the horse.

How do you actually do that? Is it sensible to? Genuine Q.

 

[meleeka]

No OP I wouldnt be paying towards the vet bill and this will be an incredibly awkward situation to be in, i feel for you, its not fair at all

I would have given my horse what for if it had kicked a dog though, that is unacceptable (unless dog was acting aggressively towards horse and you have not said it was) Kicking is an absolute no no, that could have been some dumb toddler walking too close!

Now you have a known kicker you do have a responsibility to ensure you dont put your horse in that situation again because now you do have a duty of care simply by knowing your horse has kicked!

That’s a ridiculous statement. The horse isn’t a kicker. That implies to me it kicks people which I haven’t read it does.

My horses wouldn’t dream of kicking anyone, ever. If a strange dog got too close, either at speed or really close, I can’t guarantee they wouldn’t kick it. so if a horse feels threatened by another horse, say the other horse is biting it and it’s cornered,
are they expected to just stand there and not kick?! Kicking is what they do when they can’t run away. It’s not being naughty if they are scared for their safety.

 

[Rowreach]

How do you actually do that? Is it sensible to? Genuine Q.

Which bit, training them to hounds or not reacting to an attack?

The hound thing is done on hound exercise or autumn hunting, making sure the horse is always turned towards oncoming hounds, and sometimes using the thong on your hunting whip to hang down and ward the hounds off.

The other bit is really to do with the temperament of the horse and how tolerant it is. I've had hunters that put up with an attack when I'd have been delighted if they'd booted the attacking dog into next week.

 

[ester]

I've had 2 dog incidents (one including a staffy snapping and swinging on a tail on a beach, with no owner in sight (owner was hiding)) where I would actually have preferred it if my horse had kicked said dog but didn't.
And that was even though he wasn't 100% dog safe he would chase them out the field and he once kicked a hound when autum hunting (yes I was mortified)

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

horse being held on a headcollar by the owner (ie me) in a public place so very similar situation to a yard.

Staffie comes up behind horse uninvited (owner standing by watching) dog the sinks his teeth into horse's hind leg and hangs on. Horse tries unsuccessfully to kick dog off. Finally, managing to avoid the kicking feet, people manage to prise the dog off.

I failed to reprimand horse for such disgraceful behaviour. Certainly not acceptable for him to kick a dog in public. How hard should I have belted him?

In actual fact I belted the owner (verbally) very hard. Very sadly the horse didn't manage to kill the bliddy dog.

The owner of that dog would have been getting my vet bill never mind the sharp edge of my tongue. The dog would have been stomped on by me until it let go if the horse didn’t get it, I have absolutely no issue kicking the crap out of someones dog to get it to let go of one of mine or my horse, I’ve had to do it before.

So far all the wee guys interactions with dogs have been good so he’s not too fussed however I’ve yet to test him with dogs running round his legs so only time will tell as he’s athletic and quick with them so we will have to see.

I would never smack my horse for kicking out a dog or person who was going for them in aggression however I won’t tolerate bad manners if there is nothing threatening going on. Kia would have gone over the top of anything human or canine had I asked him to and he hated dogs with a passion, Polite under saddle and inhand but would have them if allowed.

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

No chance. If your horse and got loose and the dog was minding it's own business then yes but no the dog wasn't being watched/controlled. She should have insurance too, what would she do if it bit someone or got loose and caused a car accident? Public liability and all that...

 

[brighteyes]

Which bit, training them to hounds or not reacting to an attack?

The hound thing is done on hound exercise or autumn hunting, making sure the horse is always turned towards oncoming hounds, and sometimes using the thong on your hunting whip to hang down and ward the hounds off.

The other bit is really to do with the temperament of the horse and how tolerant it is. I've had hunters that put up with an attack when I'd have been delighted if they'd booted the attacking dog into next week.

Training them not to kick! Rather than making sure it isn't given the opportunity.

 

[Rowreach]

Training them not to kick! Rather than making sure it isn't given the opportunity.

That's how you train them and then they are safe with hounds. Or if they aren't (trained or safe) then they shouldn't be taken hunting.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

Which bit, training them to hounds or not reacting to an attack?
...

The other bit is really to do with the temperament of the horse and how tolerant it is. I've had hunters that put up with an attack when I'd have been delighted if they'd booted the attacking dog into next week.

Same here. A dog jumped up at Amber and Dolly when Katie and I were riding. They spun and ran and the dog gave chase and was trying to bite their tails. I'd have been more than happy for the dog to be kicked as it was a very unsafe situation. The owners had absolutely no recall. But neither of them kicked out. They just ran away.

My own dog regularly went into the horse's field when I was fetching in. She has a down and stay command and she is put into it about 25m away from the horses.

She also sometimes comes hacking with us. I put her on the down/stay position, off the yard, go and get the horses and then pick her up again as we go past. She never gets too close and they never react to her either. So they are used to dogs but I would never expect them to just passively accept being attacked or try and train that defensive instinct out of them.

 

[Shilasdair]

If a dog bit my horses, I'd be kicking it myself.

And its owner.

 

[Gingerwitch]

No OP I wouldnt be paying towards the vet bill and this will be an incredibly awkward situation to be in, i feel for you, its not fair at all

I would have given my horse what for if it had kicked a dog though, that is unacceptable (unless dog was acting aggressively towards horse and you have not said it was) Kicking is an absolute no no, that could have been some dumb toddler walking too close!

Now you have a known kicker you do have a responsibility to ensure you dont put your horse in that situation again because now you do have a duty of care simply by knowing your horse has kicked!

What a delightful owner. Brays its horses into fear of protection of its self and then labels horse as the delinquent.

 

[my bfg]

Absolutely neither your or your horses fault, also if you were to pay anything towards the vet bill it could be seen as you accepting liability
If an owner brings a dog to the yard it's at their own risk and is their responsibility at all times

 

[Micky]

Any update OP?

 

[SatansLittleHelper]

No OP I wouldnt be paying towards the vet bill and this will be an incredibly awkward situation to be in, i feel for you, its not fair at all

I would have given my horse what for if it had kicked a dog though, that is unacceptable (unless dog was acting aggressively towards horse and you have not said it was) Kicking is an absolute no no, that could have been some dumb toddler walking too close!

Now you have a known kicker you do have a responsibility to ensure you dont put your horse in that situation again because now you do have a duty of care simply by knowing your horse has kicked!

I'm rarely speechless but seriously, wtaf..??!!!!
In what way would you have " given your horse what for"..??!!
You seem to think people are getting dumb about horses and dogs where as I personally am genuinely disturbed by the "we've always done it this way" brigade...one of the most dangerous ways of thinking IMHO. Luckily most people have a more progressive attitude to most situations these days.
This horse may have been perfectly fine if it had been loose and the dog had approached it, it could remove itself from the situation. There are many people who have dogs that are great with other dogs off lead but defensive and reactive on the lead....I don't see what is different about this scenario.
I cannot in any way comprehend that you would punish a horse for behaving like a horse in this scenario.

OP I hope it gets sorted with minimal fuss snd I hope your horse, and the dog, are OK.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I always forgot what a vast variety of horsey people we have on this forum, its great to hear so many views and opinions but the lynch mob are never far behind! I wont be sniping at the rather alarming comments following mine. Personally I've found it insightful so many people dont accept dogs around horses and that its acceptable for a horse to be tied up on the yard and allowed to kick randomly if it chooses. I've been around horses my whole life and dogs on yards have always been a thing, perhaps I'm old fashioned. Sadly overtime owners have got dumber for equine and canine ownership which is why im so thankful i have my own place away from people.

I don't allow my dogs and horses to mix, they all live at home and have to use the yard but not at the same time. I don't tie my horses up on the yard, either and certainly don't expect them to kick. I have kept horses for 40 yrs and I'm pleased to say have never been kicked (hope that's not tempting fate). The humans here are considerate around horses All our horses, even those bought as youngsters have known that kicking a person was not acceptable but that is very different from not being able to defend themselves from potential predators. We have had horses that would chase dogs out of the field, especially if they thought that the sheep were in danger.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

What about geese?

Most of the horses on the yard wouldn't kick the bosses dogs and one of then in particular is incredibly stupid and would walk between a horses back legs without a second thought.

But the old geese had been known to hang onto the odd horses tail or two! Most of the horses actually carried on walking without giving it a seconds notice ?? some scooted their bum under and spun in circles til the damned thing went flying off. Only 1 ever kicked out at the thing, and totally missed.

 

[HollyWoozle]

I am a pretty soft touch and would feel really bad too, OP, but even I would refuse to pay in this situation. Absolutely not your fault, not your horse's fault, not the dog's fault, sadly the fault of the dog's owner. I hope you stand firm and that you are OK, it's a horrible and upsetting situation.

 

[Tiddlypom]

What about geese?

Geese ?

Never mind the horse kicking a goose, I'd kick a goose! I'm terrified of the things and they blimmin well know it! They home in on me in attack mode like an Exocet!

 

[paddy555]

What about geese?

.

yes please, I adore geese. Sadly the fox adored my geese even more.
we used to have a gander up the road and he was the best entertainment ever watching him chase people.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

Just a thought, she might be able to claim on the yards public liability insurance?
Though that may cause more bad feelings.

Cannot see why the yard owner should have their premium go up and get involved when it is a irresponsible dog owner's fault. Also yard say's as long as dog is under control and well behaved, obviously it was not under control or the owner would have pulled the dog away if it had been on a lead, or the owner was walking to close to where the horse was tied up, so got kicked.

Silly dog owner, knows horses kick so you keep your dog close by or don't take it onto the yard.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

yes please, I adore geese. Sadly the fox adored my geese even more.
we used to have a gander up the road and he was the best entertainment ever watching him chase people.

They are brilliant aren't they! The ones at work know who is scared of them and who isn't! The girls scream and run so they chase them even more and home in on them which is just brilliant! I love watching them terrorise people! And if they get you they properly go for you with their beaks! An owner turned up last year, walked about the place then went to go get something out of her car. The geese caught up with her and were pecking her legs whilst she is flapping, screeching and spinning in circles. What did her husband do? Laugh his ass off and film it ??? the boss had to go rescue her in the end but we were all in fits of giggles!

They don't bother me, they side glance me and hiss at me but they soon learnt I was bigger, scarier and louder than them ??

 

[Lexi_]

If my horse were attacked or even pestered behind (we ride a LOT on the beach and this is my biggest nightmare) I would pray for it to administer a well-aimed kick. My beautiful KWPN allowed a husky thing to hang off her tail. How I wish she'd booted the loopy thing and its stupid owners into the middle of next week.

All ours are dog accustomed, but our dogs are equally horse aware - though we have to keep an eye on the BC.

Happened to the pony I was with at the beach once and it was bloody terrifying. The dog latched onto his hind leg (thankfully he had boots on) and was an absolute menace. The useless owner sent her small children to come and catch it so they were darting around under the feet of poor Rocky who was plunging around everywhere trying to lose the dog. In the end he booted it across the beach and I’ve never been more relieved about anything. They hadn’t got a hope in hell of catching it or getting it off him.

 

[Fransurrey]

Geese ?

Never mind the horse kicking a goose, I'd kick a goose! I'm terrified of the things and they blimmin well know it! They home in on me in attack mode like an Exocet!

They're all gob. We keep geese and my OH is scared of the gander, but if you square up to him and tell him to shut it he looks down and acts casual. Took ages for him to trust me, but I'm his favourite thing ever since letting him graze the lawn. Absolutely love them, now (they're officially FIL's).