Would you forgive your horse if it kicked you?

MiJodsR2BlinkinTite

MiJodsR2BlinkinTite

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As title really: mine recently kicked me. I was doing some groundwork with him at the time and we were just NOT in co-operative mode. Admittedly I allowed myself to get too close to him, but suddenly - BAM! - he'd kicked me, right in the stomach. Luckily there were other people around, but I was in a world where everything was going black and fuzzy for about ten minutes and it was scarey, very scarey.

His nasty habit of rearing at shows at other public events, I've coped with and realised I'll have to grit teeth and bear it, BUT this latest little exhibition of temper (which is what it was, coz having given me the benefit of his opinion of me, he'd gone high-tailing around the field thinking he'd obviously done something wonderful - according to a friend who was - thank god - there at the time and saw it happen). I'd tended to blame myself, told myself I "hadn't read him properly", "had got too close therefore MY fault" etc etc. Which although partially true doesn't excuse the fact that he hadn't been asked to do anything difficult i.e. like jump through a flaming hoop of fire!!! - and when you "ask" him, he frequently gives a rude and downright dangerous reply.

99% of the time he's a sweet, amiable, nice boy and suits me down to the ground in every single way; but the other 1% can rear, buck, and now he's learnt that if he doesn't want to do what I'm asking on the ground, that all he has to do is kick, and that will be the end of it!!!!

I've had a trainer who I trust implicity come to help me with his issues, and we've come a very long way, BUT this is the end of the road, for me. I just can't trust him anymore - he's a big strong horse and has learnt to kick me if he doesn't want to do groundwork - and groundwork was the place where I knew I could use to bring him back into line, but I can't anymore.

Soooo. ....... the question I'm asking is, if your horse, your best friend (like I thought mine was), kicked you: not an accident, but on purpose, could you/would you, forgive & forget?

Am just wondering really.
 
Yes I would, at the end of the day they are animals not people. It's their way of telling you that's enough, they can't talk to let you know. I would just be careful around the back end and make sure it doesn't become a habit
 
nope, I wouldnt be able too trust again. Obv theres some circumstances that are different but not a deliberate kick when he obv aimed for u! x
 
when i was 13, i had a stroppy rude and independant 138cm mare. we had a love hate relationship. on a day to day basis, it was a mostly hate relationship. but we had a bond and she would try her heart out for me and in return, i didnt force her to be a people pony. best competition mare of my childhood. she kicked me twice. both times, she ment it. but it was just her. she was PTS last year due to old age. but because she was a lamanitic we decided, as a thank you, to put her in a friends field FULL of lush grass up right up to her knees and she went in it for the day and was PTS that evening. never saw such a happy mare :) miss that pony!
 
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my horse has a temper in the stables some times (hes 17.2hh) most days hes fine but others you only have to look at him over the door and you can tell hes in a foul mood. one day with out thinking i walked in his stable to put his boots on to be turned out and as soon as i walked in his ears pinned back and he was snapping and stamping his front feet. but once your in there you cant back down so i stood my ground and he reared and boxed at me and i still stood there so he went off to the back of the stable and stood quietly so i thought he had finished and i went to pick his boots off the floor and i felt air rush past my ears and then i realised he had double barrelled at me and missed my head by millimetres and i was truely scared of him then. im very aware of him all the time now im not frightened or anxious of handling him because he is a complete gentle giant most of the time but i know he has his nasty side and i will never fully trust him but i still love him for his good bits and that out weighs his quirks

hope you okay and everything works its self out ((((((hugss))))))
 
My horse aims for me all the time!! Of course, I love him, forgiveness doesn't enter into it - there's no malice, he's an animal, he can't understand consequences.

Horses just live in the here and now, they don't see into the future, body language is their only way of communicating with us.

If he could speak he might have said, 'not just now mummy I've had a bad day and as much as I love you, I have forty winks scheduled in'

As he can't you got a well-aimed kick...xx
 
I'm still trying to work out whether or not my boy is a deliberate kicker. He's only 6 and has some issues with having his hooves picked out so my OH has been helping me as he's bigger and stronger than me. Anyway Bo obviously had enough and cow kicked my OH on the knee - it was nasty but OH was lucky not to have a broken leg to be honest. he's not done it since but he has kicked out at the sheep dogs down the road who chase him when we ride past.

I guess while I don;t know either way, I'll forgive him but I'd be worried if he continues it, especially with my two children around...
 
My horse double barreled me in the face, demolishing nearly all the bones in it. That was December 2008, I live in constant pain, have another surgery due later this month and (the docs think) as a result of it I have developed an autoimmune disease, which is quite scary, involves lots of nasty drugs, and as yet is not being managed. Oh, and most depressingly I'm now fat!

I love her to pieces. I am so sad that shortly after this she had to be retired aged 8, but she will have a pampered retirement home for the rest of her life; even if that's 20 years!

BUT, it was a complete accident. I was leading her in hand following three weeks of boxrest (fresh, fit 7 year old, sports horse...!) she exploded, I lost hold of her, and was caught in the crossfire as she took off. It's one of those things and I can't bear a grudge against her for it.

If I had a horse who purposely aimed kicks at me, it would be gone. I'm too injured and traumatised to cope with that.
 
i would have the bugger schooling on three legs and a jolley good whiplash! on a serious note, my horse kicked me in the nether reigions on 'that' bone. he was a youngster and he had shoes on. it took me so long to even go near his backend i nearly gave up. but i didnt. i seen blurry white when he did this to me, along with nearly throwing up and hot and cold sweats. he really knocked me for 6. i took it slow took my time, got my mom to help and eventually after about a year 'we' were ok. its a horrible thing expecting pain it makes you nervous and stressy. i really do think if you cant and wont cope with him, sell him. or have him trained to the back teeth.
 
Frumpoon said:
My horse aims for me all the time!! Of course, I love him, forgiveness doesn't enter into it - there's no malice, he's an animal, he can't understand consequences.

Horses just live in the here and now, they don't see into the future, body language is their only way of communicating with us.

If he could speak he might have said, 'not just now mummy I've had a bad day and as much as I love you, I have forty winks scheduled in'

As he can't you got a well-aimed kick...xx
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I must be a very, very harsh owner then because if my horse "aimed for me all the time" I would be teaching it to have manners and respect for me.
 
Mine sounds a lot like yours the sporadic bad behaviour - she lets me know when she doesn't want to work and says it loud and clear, but then she is a mare.

My yearling has managed to clip me with his front feet a couple of times but he is only just learning about boundries.

Perhaps you need to teach him that if he kicks out he still has to work - its that old "get back on" mentality that you need to apply... and try not to get as close

I hope he didn't hurt you to badly
 
Yes I would forgive them, horses do daft things sometimes, its just an expression of their mood. My pony has an 'interesting' temperament :D Sometimes he is sweet as anything, really affectionate and other days, usually when he is bored, he is horrible. At his worst he will turn and double barrel you in the field, he charges you when you turn your back on him, he strikes out with his front feet if you walk in front of him if and pins his ears flat back if you ask him to do something he doesn't like! When I work with him I try to avoid times when he is hungry as then he can be even worse.

I wouldn't take it personally with your horse, some of them are lovely with people all the time but many aren't, they are still interesting to work with though and great characters. I would always wear gloves, a hat and a body protector when doing groundwork with yours and keep working with him, you will get there.
 
I'd seriously be asking myself what I was doing to make any of mine kick me. I'd be more inclined to ask if I could forgive myself actually.
I believe horses have been telling us in other ways that they're not coping or understanding long, long before they feel the need to strike out so I would go back and do a full reassessment of my horses life from his point of view. I'd include what he eats and how it might affect him physically and mentally, how he is managed and does it suit him rather than just the yard, who has hands on contact and do they have very different ways of handling horses, is he in any discomfort especially gut and feet, am I confusing him with my requests and signals, have I trained him properly and enough for what I'm asking... the biggie, what am I missing, why isn't he cooperative sometimes and stand back and really listen and look at what HE is trying to tell me.
Also I'd make a real effort to pick up on and take notice of smaller and smaller behaviours that are his ways of communicating. I've found that the more I learn to understand, the better I 'listen' and the better I can teach and communicate.
 
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Puppy said:
My horse double barreled me in the face, demolishing nearly all the bones in it. That was December 2008, I live in constant pain, have another surgery due later this month and (the docs think) as a result of it I have developed an autoimmune disease, which is quite scary, involves lots of nasty drugs, and as yet is not being managed. Oh, and most depressingly I'm now fat!

I love her to pieces. I am so sad that shortly after this she had to be retired aged 8, but she will have a pampered retirement home for the rest of her life; even if that's 20 years!

BUT, it was a complete accident. I was leading her in hand following three weeks of boxrest (fresh, fit 7 year old, sports horse...!) she exploded, I lost hold of her, and was caught in the crossfire as she took off. It's one of those things and I can't bear a grudge against her for it.

If I had a horse who purposely aimed kicks at me, it would be gone. I'm too injured and traumatised to cope with that.
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:( sorry to hear this.that must of been awful. i do hope you recover and get back on track. wish you all the best;)
 
Yes! And I have. However, I knew that I WAS at fault the first time. I was doing some ground work and confused her. She turned around and double barrelled me in temper and frustration. It took a while to work out why she had done it and my initial reaction was to blame her. But then I carefully analysed our training session and realised how I had confused her. It was my training that was at fault.

The second time she kicked me she knocked me right over. However, the kick was actually aimed at my gelding who she thought was coming over to stal her hay. So not good, but forgivable!

Do not assume the prancing off is necessarily him feeling good about what he has done. You often see this behaviour when horses have a fall eventing and prance off, tail high. Many prey animals do it when feeling threatened to put off predators.

HOWEVER, not knowing your horse, he may well be just a nasty piece of work, and if I was sure about that, then I could not forgive, but also, I could not sell, either without telling prospective buyers EXACTLY what he has done. You then have the problem of a horse that is difficult to sell and one that has lost value due to temperament. These horses often end up on downwards spirals.

So, I would think very carefully about what you are asking him to do and whether he is just not mentally up to what is being required of him. Or whether he is actually a dangerous horse, in which case you have a serious decision to make. Either way, I would remove his hind shoes prompto, if he has them.
 
Yes if ground schooling and you got kicked

You should not be in the position where you horse have opportunity to reach you with hind legs, and I think you need to have some lessons or get some DVD's to get ideas.

I trust most of my horses, not to kick, but never when loose would I allow them to get close enough to kick. I've had a kick whizz past my head and been a lot more respectful (careful?) ever since!
 
Yes I have, Mine got me on my arm and leg last winter she got me while I was washing her back legs, put me in hospital for 4 days, still living with the dent in my leg now. Was a complete accident though and out of charactor and I think I was proberly not being as caution as I could have been. I just make sure she definently knows I'm round the back of her before a neel down to scrub the legs now. The way I see it they are animals so things can happen and this hobby is just way to expensive to be scared or nervous of it so I had to get over it and forgive the horse and just be safe as you can around them.
 
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If a horse deliberately kicked out when asking it to do basic things and it was a repeated behaviour it would be gone. Simples.
 
I think the fact you are even asking this question speaks volumes about your trust of this horse. I had a 17.2 who was dangerous I won't go on cause I have done a few posts about him but I knew what I was getting into before I bought him.
He was eventually taught manors and became the most softest loveable boy he was a horse of a lifetime by the time I had to pts.
Not once did he ever catch me though a few near misses and some luck on my side :) but I never questioned him or myself just had a strong positive attitude with him and he soon learnt this behaviour was not accepted. I never used violence on him because if you did hit him it agravated the situation.
I also had a mare who accidental kicked me in the leg, again I never questioned myself.
I think puppy's post sums up how easy accidents can happen and how much damage can be caused, let alone a horse that knows how to get out of work with a handler who is doubtful it's a recipe for diaster. With these big bolshy horses confidence is a must.
Sorry hope that does not sound harsh.
 
amandap said:
I'd seriously be asking myself what I was doing to make any of mine kick me. I'd be more inclined to ask if I could forgive myself actually.
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Well said. I have been kicked by old lad, but only caught in the crossfire of an argument between the herd, so clearly I've never held it against him - it's just him expressing his normal behaviour. When doing groundwork, I've always had plenty of warning that whichever horse I'm working with isn't happy and I've always reassessed the situation before they've felt the need to actually lash out.

By re-assess I don't mean give in and put it in a stable with a hay net - just change the way I'm asking for what I want to make it clearer, or if he really doesn't understand go back to something he does and end on a better note.
 
Yes, Been there so i know how you are feeling.

Its not so much forgiving - because you will forgive, its an animal and a natural reaction. The question is more so - Can you move on from this?

If you can trust again then great, if its made you wary then perhaps wear a BP and hat when you handle him again. If your confidence with him is truly shattered there is no harm in admitting that you and him dont getl and you want him to go to a home where he will gel. But if you do decide to sell I would suggest you be completely honest (this may restrict how much you get and the clientèle you would attract)

If you can find the confidence to work through it then great, but there is harm in admitting defeat.

I hope you heal xxx
 
If it was a deliberate kick he would get a good thumping then I just might forgive him by this time next year. There is no reason on this planet that a horse kicks deliberately without thinking about it first. Yes, they are animals but that doesn't mean they act solely on impulse. I have a young mare at the mo who thinks things through, you can see her brain work. She lashed out with a fore yesterday (missed me) because she wanted to have a nosey in the hedge and I wanted to move on (she was in hand.) You kick me, I will repay you 10 fold :(
 
my pony used to come at me in a nasty way, for some reason he hated me. i learnt very quickly how to scale the stable walls to get away from him, many times i'd land in the next stable with my other pony stood looking at me as if i'm nuts!

i can't really put into words how bad he was but it was very bad, my OH refused to let me handle him after a while because it had got so dangerous.
i became scared of him and actually contemplated shooting him myself.

we moved yards and i was basically forced to handle him and the first couple of months i was terrified but i refused to let him get the better of me so i put him to work in the arena, every day he would come at me, kick out, bite, stomp and anything else he could think of.
fast forward to today (16 months later) and he is alot better, more respectful and doesn't intimidate me as much as he used to, i will do things with him quite happily but i'm always aware of how bad he can be and what he's capable of so keep my witts about me.

i guess you could say i've forgiven him and trust him about 90% but if he goes back with his attitude then i will call it a day with him.
 
I tend to think that when animals do things they do them for a reason, so I would be looking to see what that reason was. I don't think forgiveness comes into it, that implies the horse made a moral decision to kick out, and I don't believe that horses work like that.

My dog, when I first had him, made a creditable attempt to take a chuck out of me - because I scared him and he felt he had to defend himself from me, to my shame (he was a rescue, who could seem very bouncy and completely confident but who at the time could be very insecure as well and he reacted to my body language). I still trust him, I know why he did it, I know I was the one at fault, and I happily let him take my hands in his mouth when we're playing etc (carefully of course with no toothy action, and he stops when he's told to because I've trained him for this to be so) - he's an animal and he did what animals do when they feel threatened.
 
Puppy said:
My horse double barreled me in the face, demolishing nearly all the bones in it. That was December 2008, I live in constant pain, have another surgery due later this month and (the docs think) as a result of it I have developed an autoimmune disease, which is quite scary, involves lots of nasty drugs, and as yet is not being managed. Oh, and most depressingly I'm now fat!

I love her to pieces. I am so sad that shortly after this she had to be retired aged 8, but she will have a pampered retirement home for the rest of her life; even if that's 20 years!

BUT, it was a complete accident. I was leading her in hand following three weeks of boxrest (fresh, fit 7 year old, sports horse...!) she exploded, I lost hold of her, and was caught in the crossfire as she took off. It's one of those things and I can't bear a grudge against her for it.

If I had a horse who purposely aimed kicks at me, it would be gone. I'm too injured and traumatised to cope with that.
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Hugs. I really hope you come through this. And I reckon you will.
 
When I lunged Nadia the other day she did a massive kick in my direction at head height. I'm sure if it had got me I'd not be alive to forgive her.
At the end of the day animals can't tell you in words they do or don't like something so of course I'd forgive.
 
Depends if he kicked me in temper well two can play that game if he kicked me in a accident thats life Im lucky not had to many apart from my new one who boxes at my head though fear not got me yet though.
 
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