Would you MRI this foot? *photos*

catembi

catembi

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Short history - 7 yo ID mare arrived from Ireland 3 or 4 weeks ago, having passed a 5-stage. She had a vet MOT/healthcheck including trot-ups on arrival & all was fine. Had shoes off last week - lame on near fore ever since, which is the foot with a crack in it. It looks to me like an old abscess that burst out, is now growing down & the hoof wall below has been compromised. B/f trimmer took the shoes off, but looking at the pictures, the hoof where the crack is has been left longer, i.e. making the area more weight bearing? Her feet also look to me too short all over - trimmer said she had been trimmed too short even for shoes.

She is maybe 2-3/10 lame. I am inclined to get the hoof wall adjusted so that the crack isn't so weight bearing, then just wait for it to grow out. She is on boswellia, the active ingredient of zerobute. We are also going to a Nic Barker b/f clinic on 1 Sept where she is going to be a demo horse. What I can't decide is whether to get the foot MRI'd. Not insured; been quoted £800-£900. If it turns out that there IS a problem, I could return the horse. I am 95% certain that it's the crack, but what if it isn't...? Aarrrgghhh!

https://1drv.ms/f/s!ArXRIdpOCNNFvEerHyK8z2hb_sCd

https://1drv.ms/f/s!ArXRIdpOCNNFvEiWIGk5gzUQc26m

I have also got her some boots, but she's not wearing them as I don't think that's the issue. She is no different even over stony ground with/without boots.

https://1drv.ms/f/s!ArXRIdpOCNNFvEiWIGk5gzUQc26m
 
sorry to hear about this,
first question how long do you have on the return?
second has a vet been to check and a possible x-ray cheaper than an mri, and will give you an idea of internal foot balance etc?
 
hollyandivy123 said:
sorry to hear about this,
first question how long do you have on the return?
second has a vet been to check and a possible x-ray cheaper than an mri, and will give you an idea of internal foot balance etc?
Click to expand...
This. I'd be thinking x rays first. You don't want to be hanging around though if you need to return the horse, I'd hope you get a refund rather than the exchange the seller usually offers for something like this if your vets are gloomy about the prognosis. But maybe it's more superficial than it looks.

iS2Bj5G.jpg
 
That puts me in mind rather a lot of michen's import, was it not mentioned on vetting?

I'd xray, it looks like a high tracking WLD infection to me which might need resection to resolve.
 
H'mm, okay... Have I got this right - xray only shows bone; MRI shows bone & soft tissue? So if I went with MRI, it would show both, rather than doing an x-ray, which would only show half the story...?

No, not mentioned on vetting. She was totally sound though, so both sets of vets may have thought it was a superficial/inconsequential crack.

I do really like her...she's a good girl, so I would rather sort it out if it's sortable than swap her for something else which, in the general way of horses, is only going to have something else wrong with it!

Oh well, I had better bow to the inevitable & ring the vet, then. Thank you for your input - much appreciated.
 
I wouldn’t be jumping straight in with an MRI and I’d be surprised if any vet suggested it.
I’d probably take a quick X-ray.

I’d also be a bit annoyed Vet didn’t mention the crack (and the seller) especially as purchased unseen.
 
Xray will show a gas pocket if infection.

I don't see how anyone could see that as superficial or non-consequential enough not to mention!
 
Eek, that defect is a)large and b)unusual.

With that in mind, if you're intending to keep I would x Ray, mri and set aside a year before you'll have got the hoof properly in good nick again.

If you're not intending to keep then harass the vet who did the vetting and try to return.
 
What would an X-ray show that an MRI wouldn’t...?

FWIW, the foot isn’t warm compared with the other one, as far as I can tell.

Oh FFS, how infuriating though!
 
catembi said:
What would an X-ray show that an MRI wouldn’t...?

FWIW, the foot isn’t warm compared with the other one, as far as I can tell.

Oh FFS, how infuriating though!
Click to expand...

Nothing, the MRI would tell you more. But it would save you £800 that I wouldn’t be rushing to spend in this horse at this stage. The X-ray should pick up and major separation / gas etc which is the most likely candidate.

If the Vet genuinely thinks ligaments are involved then send back pronto
 
I would x-ray. That 'blemish' is hardly minor, it should surely have been noted at the vetting.
If the problem proves to be something that just needs to grow out, I think I would shoe to allow the mare to be comfortable while the hoof grows.

And yes, if it comes to it, I would want a refund not an exchange.

Fingers crossed it's nothing too serious.
 
I agree with just having an x ray at this point, you only really do an mri if nothing is seen by x ray or a scan but looking at that foot I think the x ray will tell you what you need to know.
 
Yes, bloods were taken. I wouldn’t imagine they’d show much as she was sound and in work until shoes came off. Bloods at health check came back as very normal.
 
It's more that you don't need an MRI to show the level of infection, if that is the cause it is likely that there aren't any soft tissue problems associated with it so it would be unnecessary to jump straight to MRI IMO.
 
As mentioned by Ester I had a very similar situation with my Irish horse which I imported unseen. His was a hole in his foot that appeared to be an old abscess hole, it got bigger and bigger and he was lame on it. I had the hoof x rayed which showed a gas pocket. Had the hoof resected and shod to stabilise the hoof.

Hole mostly grew out but he was still ever so slightly lame, at this point I had him worked up by vet and he was found to be lame in front too. He had all four hooves MRId at liphook and there was absolutely nothing on the hind hoof (it really was just the hole causing the lameness even though by that point it was practically grown out) and mild bruising in his front feet which the vets felt could have been a concussion from overloading the fronts having had a dodgy hind hoof for a long time.

Anyway, am waffling, but guess what I’m saying is.. I would x ray and be prepared that it could take a long time for the horse to be fully sound whilst it grows out.

As for Irish vettings, what a joke!

Edited to add, the vets farrier shod my horses hind hoof after the mri (despite me and vet agreeing it would be better to not shoe so I could properly clean the hole- rather than it being covered). This caused the hole to kick off again, I then removed the shoes and did a massive amount of long reining out on the roads- problem solved.



solid aluminum carbonate
 
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Personally I would have taken this up with the vet/ seller as soon as the horse got off the lorry- that is a serious crack!
But as others have said, an x-ray should show you what you need to know without the huge expense of MRI
 
catembi said:
Short history - 7 yo ID mare arrived from Ireland 3 or 4 weeks ago, having passed a 5-stage. She had a vet MOT/healthcheck including trot-ups on arrival & all was fine. Had shoes off last week - lame on near fore ever since, which is the foot with a crack in it. It looks to me like an old abscess that burst out, is now growing down & the hoof wall below has been compromised. B/f trimmer took the shoes off, but looking at the pictures, the hoof where the crack is has been left longer, i.e. making the area more weight bearing? Her feet also look to me too short all over - trimmer said she had been trimmed too short even for shoes.

She is maybe 2-3/10 lame. I am inclined to get the hoof wall adjusted so that the crack isn't so weight bearing, then just wait for it to grow out. She is on boswellia, the active ingredient of zerobute. We are also going to a Nic Barker b/f clinic on 1 Sept where she is going to be a demo horse. What I can't decide is whether to get the foot MRI'd. Not insured; been quoted £800-£900. If it turns out that there IS a problem, I could return the horse. I am 95% certain that it's the crack, but what if it isn't...? Aarrrgghhh!

https://1drv.ms/f/s!ArXRIdpOCNNFvEerHyK8z2hb_sCd

https://1drv.ms/f/s!ArXRIdpOCNNFvEiWIGk5gzUQc26m

I have also got her some boots, but she's not wearing them as I don't think that's the issue. She is no different even over stony ground with/without boots.

https://1drv.ms/f/s!ArXRIdpOCNNFvEiWIGk5gzUQc26m
Click to expand...

Is your barefoot trimmer a fully qualified farrier? I only ask as I know my farrier has a wealth of experience and has managed reoccurring abscess damage in an Irish drought cross mare. If it is any help my husband( no equine qualifications!) looked at the photos and said send it back. The vet that passed it on the 5 star check holds responsibility for not reporting this damage. Don’t let your heart rule your head. You want a horse to ride not as a slightly lame pet!
 
Wow, Michen, that's an awesome hole! Thank you for sharing.

SchollyM, b/f trimmer isn't a vet & I am not at all sure that the foot has been left in an optimal state wrt the crack. Another fully qualified remedial farrier who is v good, to the extent that people would know who he was if I said the name, saw her yesterday & has said to shoe, at least in front, until the crack grows out.

I have sent the photos to the vet who did the health check & who saw her fully sound at the time. Current thinking is to xray the foot & go from there. He says he 'didn't notice' the crack. I DID notice, but as she was 100% sound, thought it was cosmetic. **sighs**
 
I can't remember when exactly you bought this horse, but I do know that in Ireland they don't generally keep the bloods they have drawn for 6 months like we do here. So, if you are even remotely likely to want to know the results of bloods you could do with contacting the vet ASAP to have them saved (even if you don't actually run them).
 
It's possible that it isn't too much of an issue and it will grow out but you need to know what the infection status is first before proceeding.

If it doesn't go too high up/can be accessed to that point either as is or with some dremmeling then cleantrax soaking may well resolve it sufficiently for it to grow down, but they do have a tendency like Michen's to keep tracking upwards.
 
H’mm, I think X-ray will be booked for Wednesday. I am moving this weekend so will at long last be getting all my stuff out of storage, including my soak boot, so could do a cleantrax soak while we’re waiting. I have red horse sole cleanse and field paste too that I can collect on Saturday.

I totally know I should send her back, but I like her, my elderly and non horsey husband can handle her and horses being what they are, if I got rid and got something completely different from someone else, it might have something worse wrong with it.
 
Well for what it’s worrh I am so glad I couldn’t send mine back, also glad he wasn’t sound enough to sell as I was forced to keep him and now there would be no amount of money that he’d be let go for! Love the look of your mare, it’s bloody annoying about the crack and may take some time and money but sounds like she’s worth it.

catembi said:
H’mm, I think X-ray will be booked for Wednesday. I am moving this weekend so will at long last be getting all my stuff out of storage, including my soak boot, so could do a cleantrax soak while we’re waiting. I have red horse sole cleanse and field paste too that I can collect on Saturday.

I totally know I should send her back, but I like her, my elderly and non horsey husband can handle her and horses being what they are, if I got rid and got something completely different from someone else, it might have something worse wrong with it.
Click to expand...
 
Michen said:
Well for what it’s worrh I am so glad I couldn’t send mine back, also glad he wasn’t sound enough to sell as I was forced to keep him and now there would be no amount of money that he’d be let go for! Love the look of your mare, it’s bloody annoying about the crack and may take some time and money but sounds like she’s worth it.
Click to expand...

Completely agree - a defect like that is a pita to have been lumbered with to sort out, but in the grand scheme of things it is perfectly fixable and if the rest of her is good and you're not in a desperate hurry to get out competing.....
 
Well, I half am & half am not desperate to get out competing... Potted history - I've had various sick note horses since 2007, been divorced twice, sold my equestrian property & moved out in Dec 2017, had 3 house purchases fall thru, promised myself a new horse when I finished my doctorate, got a 5 yr course done in 4 years (v incentivised), had 2 horses fail the vet, would probs have been a good idea to wait for new house to go through but then there was yet another infuriating delay with the purchase so I just had a rush of blood to the head & bought Summer! You know that feeling when you simply can't stand it any longer & just HAVE to buy a horse! We are moving starting tomo. House has land but no equestrian facilities yet, plus I have no transport yet, so it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world ever if we just mooched about for 6 months til the spring. Every time I think I can get going (I had already retrieved my comp outfit from my parents) there is some delay, horse illness, etc etc, so I am getting used to sighing & getting on with it.

So I can amuse myself getting planning for stables & arena (we did get a preplanning report), deciding whether to have a b/f track system, sorting out buildings etc.

Cleantrax ordered, I will get my soaking boot, book xray, start sole cleansing & field pasting & we shall see what happens.

Yes, I do proper luvs her...!!
 
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