Would you take on a horse with KS?

FestiveFuzz

FestiveFuzz

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So I've loosely been keeping my ear to the ground for a new horse, although I haven't been massively proactive about it as whilst I can afford to keep two financially I don't have the time to do two justice and as such would rather find H a new home first. There's a few irons in the fire there now so I'm hoping it won't be too long until he finds somewhere.

Anyway, spring is fast approaching and the idea of not having something to compete over summer is not something I want to face so I've started putting feelers out again.

I've decided that whilst I enjoyed the challenges of having a green horse, I feel I personally haven't progressed myself very far in the last few years and am now looking for something older that's been there and got the tshirt and is ready to help me build my confidence back up when it comes to jumping so I can start doing some low level eventing again.

I was ideally looking to buy, and have a reasonable budget to work with, but I've since heard from someone who is potentially looking to loan one of her eventers as he needs to step down a gear. The only catch is he has mild KS which is currently treated with regular physio and only seems to be exacerbated by jumping the kind of tracks that I'd never be brave enough to jump. She's said he'd only go if she felt it were the right home and he'd always have a home with her if I needed to send him back for whatever reason, so the risk seems relatively minimal. But I have no prior experience of managing KS so thought I'd ask those in the know whether they think it's a viable option or if I'd be best off holding out for something without a known issue?

OH and I are currently in the middle of renovating our house, so whilst I was ideally looking to buy I'd be lying if I said the money I've set aside couldn't be better placed right now which is why I'm considering a loan instead.

I'm yet to view the horse as he's several hours away and I don't want to waste anyone's time by viewing him if this could be a dealbreaker but on paper he's everything I'm looking for so I just need to know if I'm looking at it with rose tinted glasses on?
 
After reading all the many heartbreaking threads on here about horses with KS it would be a huge deal breaker for me I'm afraid.

There are so many lovely horses out there and as Spring approaches I bet you'll find many more being offered up for loan.
 
How old is he and how long has he been competing at this level since diagnosis? How does she know he will be ok jumping lower jumps (ie has he had a decent period of being ok jumping lower jumps or is this just supposition). Is he in work and ready to go?

It sounds like you wouldn't lose by trying it if he suits you. As long as you are tough enough to send him back if he is lovely and wonderful but not up to what you want to do.
 
I have two with kissing spine - one (touch wood) ticks along doing low level eventing, but always has to stay in work and suffers if he's injured and loses muscle. The other has it worse and got injections which worked first time, but didn't work second time, so I think his riding career is over. He would be fine and then would have serious rearing fits out of the blue.

If it was the horse of my dreams, I def wouldn't buy it, I'd try to loan if possible - I'd also get xrays done . You are buying vets bills, physio and trouble though. I'd keep looking for a horse with no known issues if it was me - unless this horse was absolutely fantastic.
 
Would I buy? Probably not, unless the op had been done and it was proved it had worked (ie good results since ) but for a horse like then one you've described yes I think I would loan.
Have it in your mind at which point you won't spend extra on him, I.e. Regular physio yes, injections /surgery no. The owner has already said she'll have him back and what you would learn on a horse of this level is invaluable.
For me it's a no brainer. ��
 
If he were to buy I 100% wouldn't consider it as I'm of the mindset there are enough healthy horses out there that I don't need to buy someone else's problem.

He's currently jumping novice tracks but was fine prior to reaching this level so it is the opinion of both the owner and the vet treating him that he would benefit from stepping down a gear. I would only be looking at competing in RC activities and BE80/90 at the most unless I got really brave but still can't see myself going much further.

He's in work and competing at the moment so not a complete unknown entity. It's just a tough one as surely all eventing schoolmasters will have some kind of wear and tear as it's the nature of the sport? Plus the amount I could learn from such a horse seems to be worth a certain element of risk in my mind.
 
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There's not really any risk except emotionally, since you can send him back.

Sounds like an excellent opportunity just make sure it's all clear as to what the agreement is with him before you take him on.
 
I wouldn't take the risk if it's a horse that has just done novice and then hit trouble. You'd easily find a healthy horse capable of doing that height. The normal wear and tear eventing horses have is different from a physical issue like kissing spine though. I spend a fortune every year on checks and treatments for mine. There are so many levels of kissing spine thats it's impossible to know what the outlook is without seeing xrays and discussing with a vet. But why spend money on that when you could just buy a healthy horse and not have those worries.

I can see the attraction of a horse that might bring you on, but there's tons of those around. And I wouldn't be too wowed by a horse that's jumped a novice course, there's plenty of not-great horses scraping round that height.

I'd be tempted to try him on a loan though if I were you.
 
FfionWinnie said:
There's not really any risk except emotionally, since you can send him back.

Sounds like an excellent opportunity just make sure it's all clear as to what the agreement is with him before you take him on.
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I agree. It's a loan, so if the horse doesn't stand up to the work you want to do he can go back home.
 
I would most certainly go for it! It's a loan, if it doesn't work you send him back. He sounds like a lovely educated horse and they are hard to come by as not many people loan horses like that out. Yes kissing spines can be a nightmare but it sounds as if his is being managed very well and is not overly serious.
 
FfionWinnie said:
There's not really any risk except emotionally, since you can send him back.

Sounds like an excellent opportunity just make sure it's all clear as to what the agreement is with him before you take him on.
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This�� As you say, eventing school masters by their nature may be one competition away from some sort of problem( tendon, hocks, ks or whatever) and you would be taking a risk in buying one, even if sound and healthy at the time of purchase.

As long as you get a written agreement, I would jump at the chance.
 
Tough one. There are certainly some good success stories of horses doing well with ks, but it can be a tough condition to keep on top of. If it's a loan under the circs you describe, I'd hope you would consider as I hate the idea of them being written off completely if they are still capable of doing a job happily. Sadly I may be in this situation so I hope if it comes to that I can find someone who would be sympathetic.
 
the issue is finding people who can ride the correct way and do the exercises to keep the back muscled and stretching correctly. And who understand the work needed to keep the horse in shape. The worry is you could loan to someone who just pulls the neck in to make the horse look pretty and actually makes the situation worse :(
 
In terms of upkeep I always have the physio out to my horses every 3 months so having one that has this as a requirement really isn't an issue to me. I'd also be happy to cover the costs of injections if it came to it, but that's something I can discuss in greater depth with his owner if he seems suitable.

I'm fairly classically trained and loathe those that ride with their hands in the crotch to try to make the horse "look pretty". I would be taking my trainer with me to the viewing anyway and would want to discuss his management requirements with the owner at length so we can both fully understand the work needed to ensure he remains comfortable.

And to clarify my wear and tear comment, I understand KS doesn't fall into that bracket but that most schoolmaster eventers looking to step down a gear and thus show me the ropes will be looking to do so for a reason.
 
ah yeah, go for it. the 'looking pretty' comment wasn't aimed at you op, it was in reply to the other poster worrying about loaning her horse out. You sound like a good match for the horse and it will be a lucky horse to get someon who can keep it in good shape.
 
paddi22 said:
ah yeah, go for it. the 'looking pretty' comment wasn't aimed at you op, it was in reply to the other poster worrying about loaning her horse out. You sound like a good match for the horse and it will be a lucky horse to get someon who can keep it in good shape.
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Definitely! But yes to your point paddi it is a worry and not sure of the outcome just yet in my case.
 
I'd give it a go - you have nothing to lose if the terms of the loan are right and you like the horse. Even if you only get 6 months that's more fun than buying something you don't get on with and having the heartache of having to sell.

If you were buying I'd say step away, but a loan is a different kettle of fish altogether. Work closely with the vet and the physio and get a good regime for keeping him well muscled up and see how you go.
 
KS is a very very broad term - its a bit like using Colic as a generic term. You can have mild KS which can be managed to the worst when the horse becomes completely unrideable. You already know that there is much more daily management involved.

I would also ask if your vet could talk to the owners vet. I would think long and hard but my personal experience has not been great. A close friend went through surgery and complete rehabilitation for her horse (whom I was really fond of) and he still had to be PTS as could not be ridden again and didn't cope with being a field companion. It was heartbreaking.
 
Thanks for all the input folks...lots to think about. I think I would have to draw the line at operating, particularly as any insurance I have will deem the KS a pre-existing condition and therefore I would be left to foot the bill. I will speak with his owner and discuss the particulars and who would cover what if the KS got worse and whether it's worth keeping his insurance in her name with me covering the premiums...although I'm getting a bit ahead of myself as this is all dependent on whether he's even suitable for me.

With that in mind, would you broach the subject of who would cover the costs of what prior to viewing or only if you decided to take the horse on? I'm aware I've bombarded the poor owner with quite a few questions these past few days and don't want to bombard her too much before I've even met him. On the other hand, if she expected me to cover the costs of an op if he needed one I'd be reluctant to view in the first place.
 
I think that if you're interested go and see him and see how you get on. If you like the horse, and the owner likes you that is the point I would have the insurance discussion.

However, if it were me (and I know this sounds pants) the minute the ks became a problem he'd be going straight back.

But, what you can offer is a quieter life within the remits of what the horse can do with the condition, and a loving and knowledgeable home. That's presumably what the owner wants - the rest is down to physiology essentially.
 
One thing to consider is that the eventer may be able to keep him ticking over enough to keep his back muscles enough to support the spine and alleviate some pain. There are a couple of things to consider. How often are you going to be riding - half and hour to an hour 2-3 times a week is likely not enough to keep the back strong enough and the KS may get worse. This is what happened to my friend's eventer when he was wintered off and just hacked with a few BDs.

The other thing - How 'good' a rider are you? A pro rider may be able to hold them together and sit any bucks. If you get nervous this could escalate and you could totally lose your confidence.

There are lots of horses without issues - don't take on one that is a known problem.
 
EQUIDAE said:
One thing to consider is that the eventer may be able to keep him ticking over enough to keep his back muscles enough to support the spine and alleviate some pain. There are a couple of things to consider. How often are you going to be riding - half and hour to an hour 2-3 times a week is likely not enough to keep the back strong enough and the KS may get worse. This is what happened to my friend's eventer when he was wintered off and just hacked with a few BDs.

The other thing - How 'good' a rider are you? A pro rider may be able to hold them together and sit any bucks. If you get nervous this could escalate and you could totally lose your confidence.

There are lots of horses without issues - don't take on one that is a known problem.
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I generally agree with the "don't take on a known problem" adage, but with this one I'm considering it as it's a loan and it sounds like we could be just what the other needs. Although perhaps I'm not looking at this objectively.

Whilst he's previously been on a pro yard in his youth he's now with an amateur who fits him and her other horses around a full time job, although there's no doubting she's a more competent rider than me. That said, she got him to help with her confidence and describes him as a schoolmaster so I suspect he'd been fine...though I will ask about his current workload as I would hate to have a detrimental effect on his wellbeing.

Until I decided I simply wasn't enjoying riding my horse and allowed him to essentially take the rest of winter off, I was riding for an hour before work most mornings and then hacking for a couple of hours on a saturday, having an hour lesson on a sunday followed by another 45min to an hour hack. This only increases once we have more daylight hours and if I'm away with work there's always the yard staff that are always happy to exercise (though I would check the owner is happy to have him ridden by others first).

In terms of how 'good' a rider I am it's hard to say...I've been riding and owning horses for 24 years, though I'm by no means the bravest or most confident rider (although I'm apparently good at faking it) but I am relatively petite (size 8 and 5'4") so pretty lightweight, have a quiet, independent seat and am generally able to sit bucks, rears, spooks and spins...thanks to my ridiculously nappy and opinionated current horse. Whether I'll be good enough for this horse though I can't say until I've been to view him.
 
VikingSong said:
"Would you take on a horse with KS?"

No.

Purely because I have zero experience of handling horses with KS.
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I guess in my mind there's only one way to learn and if I'm going to have to I'd rather do so with a supportive owner to guide me and the help of my trainer, vet and physio.

As others have said, it seems a crying shame not to give this otherwise useful and possibly ideal horse a chance if he ticks all other boxes. After all there's no guarantee with any horse really.
 
I think that if you get on well when you try him it must be worth giving it a go, I like to make a list of pros and cons and see where I end up, with this horse you know he can do the job for you, you know what the issue is, you can send him back if it doesn't work out for any reason, you cannot do that if you buy and something goes wrong.

There may seem to be many suitable horses out there but when you actually start looking properly and rule out 99% for various reasons you are left with very few to even go and see, if any of the 1% do suit they still have to pass a vet and there is no guarantee they will stay sound or even do the job you bought it for.

I would go and try with your sensible head on, think of it as a proper trial just as you would if you were buying, not trying to see if he may do but do you really like him, do you feel right and is he the one you want to get up to ride every day, if there are too many ifs or buts walk away just as you would if you were buying, there may be no money involved with the purchase but the daily cost are still there as well as the emotional attachment.

Would I take it on, no but only because it is not what I would want, if I was looking and it did fit the bill I would certainly consider it, I enjoy a challenge, love working with rehab horses, have a good physio and can be very flexible in how I keep a horse, if it needed 24/7 turnout it could have it as I have my own land, you have nothing to lose by going to look and possibly a lot to gain.
 
Also keep in mind, if you X ray'd every horse, most would have some degree of ks. It obviously isn't bad enough to operate or they would've done so by now. Go and look at the horse and then make a decision based on what's in front of you, you might not even like him 😄
 
I think as you say a loan is different to buying. You don't ideally want to buy problems but this way you may get a cracking horse for a few years which will help you in your own riding/experience/confidence before going out and finding your next horse

I would go and try the horse and have a candid chat with owner if you get on with the horse and he ticks all the boxes that you are looking for.

As long as you are upfront from the start and you are both clear and happy what will happen if KS becomes an issue (ie owner gets horse back) and you both still want to go ahead with it then great! If you can agree on those points, then worth chatting about vets fees/management etc...
 
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