Pictures Would you turn away/give a holiday?

[Michen]

Trying to decide what to do with Bog, quite conscious he’s worked fairly hard since March this year. He’s evented (mostly at 80 so hardly taxing!) every two/three weeks with the odd month or so of nothing when ground has been hard, and he had a two week holiday in July.

Since beginning of September he’s done a hunter trial and been hunting, mainly bound exercise/autumn hunting and now is drag hunting once every couple of weeks with plenty of long hacks in between. He’s rarely schooled (I need to get cracking with that but I’m useless unless I have a lesson and work is so busy at the moment) so in reality he’s mostly hacking with the odd jump lesson once every few weeks.

He is incredibly fit, was looking too much like a racehorse a few weeks ago but I think I’m on the right track feed wise and looking better now.

I’m trying to decide whether to turn him away/give him a full months holiday at any point this winter. He will be seven in spring and I was half planning on hunting until Christmas and then focusing on the dressage/sj with the odd days hunting.

He’s very buzzy, but does get turned out for 8 hours ish so it shouldn’t be too bad for him to not be in work for a bit despite being stabled (I assume!) Would there be much benefit in giving him a month off? Or longer? Do people tend to give 6 year olds a break if they’ve worked hard? He could probably do with “filling out”, not helped by the fact he is hunting fit, and I don’t do anywhere near as much school work as I should to build more muscle which I’m aware of...

There's no problem to fix here, he feels fantastic and is super under saddle but just want to make sure I'm not doing too much with a young horse.

 

[paddi22]

I'm giving my young horse 2 months off. Just to lose some fitness and to unwind any aches or things she might have picked up during the season.

For me a lot would depend on the turnout situation. Mine gets thrown into a boggy field in a herd and they get a proper mental break from work and work routine. I think if I was on a livery yard where they only got turnout into small bare paddocks I wouldn't give as much time off, id rather take them out and do two weeks full grass livery, where they can have their heads down 24/7, be moving constantly, forget humans for a while and be a horse.

I find if they are in a yard with small paddocks that are unstimulating then its not really a holiday for them, as they are still on a routine and mentally in the same head space. For a buzzy clever type I think I'd nearly keep them in work, but just stuff they found fun.

We went to a talk recently at a training weekend and the speaker says that the old school way of throwing them out for months has downsides physically for their muscles and systems. He recommended to give them no more than 2 weeks off, a few times during through the year and follow that with holiday periods of light, fun work for them 2 or 3 days a week, doing stuff that is relaxing and not mentally stressful for them. It was really interesting and it def changed the way I will work out holidays for mine.

 

[Michen]

I'm giving my young horse 2 months off. Just to lose some fitness and to unwind any aches or things she might have picked up during the season.

For me a lot would depend on the turnout situation. Mine gets thrown into a boggy field in a herd and they get a proper mental break from work and work routine. I think if I was on a livery yard where they only got turnout into small bare paddocks I wouldn't give as much time off, id rather take them out and do two weeks full grass livery, where they can have their heads down 24/7, be moving constantly, forget humans for a while and be a horse.

I find if they are in a yard with small paddocks that are unstimulating then its not really a holiday for them, as they are still on a routine and mentally in the same head space. For a buzzy clever type I think I'd nearly keep them in work, but just stuff they found fun.

We went to a talk recently at a training weekend and the speaker says that the old school was of throwing them out for months has downsides physically for their muscles and systems. He recommended to give them no more than 2 weeks off, a few times during through the year and follow that with holiday periods of light, fun work for them 2 or 3 days a week, doing stuff that is relaxing and not mentally stressful for them. It was really interesting and it def changed the way I work out holidays for mine.

That's really interesting, thanks. His set up would be the livery yard type and I wouldn't be willing to risk moving him as he can be a devil to turn out in a herd having been cut late, would be too risky incase he caused havoc etc.

 

[paddi22]

yeah true, if hes not used to it it could cause more harm than good!

 

[ihatework]

For horse sports that have definitive seasons, eg hunting and Eventing, then I’m very for giving them a holiday. I feel that the pros of doing this outweigh the cons - but to me that holiday is a complete mental & physical unwind which involves big field, friends, ideally no shoes and no stabling.

I’m not sure there is that great a benefit to keeping them on a part stabled routine on a livery yard and then not working them. If that is your only option then I’d probably just schedule a light hacking regime 2-3 times a year.

 

[sportsmansB]

Echo the above - we do give the eventers a holiday, but its a proper wooly coat, no shoes, go and be a horse time.
If you have a horse who likes to work and be stimulated then I don't think you can replicate that without 24/7 turnout and you might find it doesn't work at all and they just get bored and a bit mixed up being in their usual routine but without the riding..

 

[Michen]

Echo the above - we do give the eventers a holiday, but its a proper wooly coat, no shoes, go and be a horse time.
If you have a horse who likes to work and be stimulated then I don't think you can replicate that without 24/7 turnout and you might find it doesn't work at all and they just get bored and a bit mixed up being in their usual routine but without the riding..

Mmm, this is a horse who spends time chasing rabbits and crows out of his field so lots to think about here, definitely his set up is clearly not suitable for a proper break.

I could try and find somewhere for him to go but he has caused so much trouble when I’ve tried him in herds before I would need to be upfront about that, and I’m not sure many yards offering grass livery would want to risk it with something like him for a short term break.

 

[sportsmansB]

In that case I would probably just keep him in light, fun work with as much turnout as possible
Indeed it wouldn't make sense for a yard to potentially disrupt their full time residents for the sake of a few weeks grass livery - I prob wouldn't, if it was my yard.

 

[Vodkagirly]

I would just keep him ticking over. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Normally the weather will enforce a break at some point.

 

[tristar]

he looks great, i would give him a hol, about 3 4 weeks ,non ridden, take him for walks in hand, bit of lunge or loose jumping, BUT only if he seems bored, i would cut down the food, but keep to the same in and out routine stable wise, you may find he is different horse after.

i just did this, because i was busy for a few of weeks, and yesterday rode horse first day back in work, and wow what a different attitude! he was so willing and happy, really enjoyed riding him, it has bought him on frankly, i think he realized he missed the work! but the mental and physical rest has done him the world of good, just like us really. a break can be very refreshing without loosing all the fitness and non of the training.

 

[milliepops]

I would just keep him ticking over. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Normally the weather will enforce a break at some point.

this is the problem unless you have access to top facilities, it's really hard to stick to a schedule in winter! i think I'd give him a couple of easy weeks and then keep going with your plan.

 

[paddi22]

yeah the talk was really interesting. it broke down the damage it does to a horses respiratory and other internal systems to be in full work and then go to doing nothing for an extended period of time, and then back to full work. Thats its much better to do more frequent gradual dips in rests and mental holidays for them. I would have always been of the 'shoes off, fluff up, see you in spring' camp, but it was very thought provoking

 

[ycbm]

No but I would take his shoes off for three months.

 

[Michen]

No but I would take his shoes off for three months.

🙈 Dare I ask why...! I probably know the answer but this is not a horse whose not regularly checked for soundness or x rayed as I’m sure you know.

 

[Michen]

yeah the talk was really interesting. it broke down the damage it does to a horses respiratory and other internal systems to be in full work and then go to doing nothing for an extended period of time, and then back to full work. Thats its much better to do more frequent gradual dips in rests and mental holidays for them. I would have always been of the 'shoes off, fluff up, see you in spring' camp, but it was very thought provoking

That is interesting. Guess it also depends on the horse, think my old boy would have benefitted from a few months off to refresh.

 

[paddi22]

I had asked him in relation to a 16 year old eventer, and he said for a horse over 15, don't give them any more than 2/3 weeks off with no riding. And instead to ride 3 times a week doing, say, one long and low session to keep muscle and then hacking/fun stuff that's mentally enjoyable for them. He said there is no benefit to letting an older horse (who is in work) lose muscle or fitness.
He said once they get over 15 or so, they don't come back from being letdown as well, and it puts more pressure on their respiratory, circulation and muscle systems. He said when they measured stuff (especially lung function) they had degraded and didn't get back to the level they had been at previously. And this had a kick on effect to how their larynx functioned when under pressure. was really interesting

 

[ycbm]

🙈 Dare I ask why...! I probably know the answer but this is not a horse whose not regularly checked for soundness or x rayed as I’m sure you know.

Because I believe that most horses need a break from shoes for three months a year to reshape the feet, and only the lucky ones get away with being shod full time year after year. It's my impression that in the days when horses with a summer season had their shoes off in winter and horses with a winter season had their shoes of in summer, there were far fewer foot problems than there are these days.

 

[Michen]

Because I believe that most horses need a break from shoes for three months a year to reshape the feet, and only the lucky ones get away with being shod full time year after year. It's my impression that in the days when horses with a summer season had their shoes off in winter and horses with a winter season had their shoes of in summer, there were far fewer foot problems than there are these days.

Agree, there’s no reason he can’t be without shoes for general hacking and schooling .. his back ones are off already and his front ones are only on for hunting as I don’t think he’d immediately be able to cope with some of the terrain.

I guess I’m a little worried as last time he wore his feet into such an upright shape. He actually had his x rays from before and after consulted on the other week by Nic (as my vet knows her very well) who felt it was inevitable due to his confirmation, but not quite sure what to think of that

 

[EventingMum]

Really interesting information here. When eventing we usually started to let them down after their last event usually at the start of October, although not fully roughed off due to our location. They still came in at night but had a complete mental and physical break. At the end of December we would start fittening work again building up to our first event in April. One horse in particular would only tolerate two months off and then became grumpy until work was started again, he obviously liked to do a job! Fortunately he eventually settled into retirement but stresses if his routine is disrupted and still has to come in overnight even in summer as come what he considers tea time he'll run around until brought in even if his field mates are settled. I think the key to holidays is to see what works for each individual horse.

 

[Bernster]

Interesting info on here. Can’t really help as mine are usually in fairly light work so I just keep pootling along as we are, but from the sounds of it a few weeks of lighter work might be worth a try for your boy.

 

[ycbm]

Agree, there’s no reason he can’t be without shoes for general hacking and schooling .. his back ones are off already and his front ones are only on for hunting as I don’t think he’d immediately be able to cope with some of the terrain.

I guess I’m a little worried as last time he wore his feet into such an upright shape. He actually had his x rays from before and after consulted on the other week by Nic (as my vet knows her very well) who felt it was inevitable due to his confirmation, but not quite sure what to think of that

Oooh. Nic's comment is interesting, and possibly a bit worrying. The logical conclusion of her comment that when barefoot he will have upright feet because of his confirmation is that if shoeing is preventing him doing that, he is putting abnormal stress somewhere else in his body, which may eventually cause an issue. I'd have a big 'but' here in Bog's case, though. The but is that when barefoot he had a broken forward axis which I would be very unhappy with, but your latest xrays show that in shoes his axis is now straight. And I would choose straight and shod before I would choose broken forward and barefoot in a working sports horse. Because I would rather the forces inside the feet were correct than worry about joints higher up which are better able to dissipate stresses in the wrong place.

 

[Michen]

Yep that’s pretty much the conclusion myself and the vet came to. We didn’t rule out the possibility of trying barefoot again at some point, but for now I’ve reached a mental compromise on it which is shoeing no later than four weeks, x rays and lameness check at the practice every six months. I think you have to do what you can live with sometimes and accept that there may be consequences further down the line but you do your best to mitigate them.

Nic did also query whether he wore his foot like that because of a toe first landing and the possibility of thrush. But can say with total confidence he didn’t land toe first (I videoed - a lot!) or have thrush when he was shoeless.