Wouldn't mind your input here please.

[Tia]

I have a horse which I went to see today with a possible view to buy, however on assessing the mare I believe that the owner should keep her and with a little time she will turn out to be a nice little mare. I worked with the mare for an hour and I see she has some issues but they aren't insurmountable by any stretch of the imagination. So the plan at the moment is that the mare comes to me for training and a little bit of rehabilitation.

All of her issues I have dealt with before and have no qualms about her turning around.....except one. This one is flummoxing me a little and if anyone can come up with a theory I would be most interested.

The story goes; horse was bought a couple of months ago as a childs riding horse, perfect in all respects (apparently!). When said horse arrived at the boarding stable, apparently they felt that it may have been drugged; now not having seen it I have no idea whether it was in fact drugged as such or if it was sedated to load her on the trailer.

Horse settles in, but not well. Child tries to ride the horse and horse will not accept the bit. After contacting me for advice, mother has vet in to check back and teeth. Vet decides that the one and only wolf tooth needs to come out - so out it came 2 months ago. Horse does not improve with bridling. Back appears to be fine.

Mother decides to use hackamore on horse after discussing this with me; horse is not happy in hackamore and is just as difficult to bridle as she was with a bit. Horse does not care for halter to be put on either.

So I go and visit the horse in person for the first time today - horse is VERY pre-occupied with something, who knows what, as absolutely nothing was going on at the time I was with her. So I worked with her for a while and she did definitely make a huge improvement according to owner. I checked her back, legs and mouth and no obvious signs of anything being wrong.

She boards at a very busy lesson barn (riding school), I wondered whether there was too much going on for the mare and I found when working with her that her concentration span was very short.......however that does not account for the reason that she won't accept the bridle. She has no problem with me looking in her mouth as I checked her age and condition of teeth, but the minute the bridle comes out she alters her demeanor.

Any ideas?

 

[vicijp]

Lately ive been breaking in a 3yo, pretty much untouched. Was going well apart from the fact he cow kicks like a b#tch. So, was riding him leant across, he was very good with his face/ears by this time. Next day went to put bridle on and couldnt get anywhere near him. Put him on the lunge in a headcollar and he was carrying his head low and shaking it a bit. Got the physio out and looks as though hes been cast and wrenched himself about between the ears. She said to give 2 days box rest (she NEVER says box rest) then see what hes like. Hes better with his head but has now started bucking (has never bucked), so shes out tomorrow to check everywhere else (which will be fun with the kicking).
I also knew one before that, was half broken. She was a total cow of a thing but basically no one had been bothered to bridle her properly before (bit was tied to headcollar with string). Within a week of using just a headpiece (no browband), doing it up when on, slipping it off over ears she was fine. Broke her in and all was well, passed her on and she soon regressed. The lad that was riding her couldnt be bothered, just used to undo the bridle and let her fling it against the wall. She started having proper tantrums, but was easily sortable as soon as i f#cked off the muppets.
Could be that she just needs re educating?

 

[Parkranger]

Maybe she's had pain in her mouth in the past which has now gone but she's worried about it hurting again? My boy had a few bridling issues when I first got him but is fine now - I know for a fact he was trying it on as he was always fine at the riding school!

 

[Bossanova]

Could well be something going on at the poll- esp if she's similar with a halter and hackamore. You could try padding out the head strap with something soft and leaving her in the bridle for an hour or so. Is there a physio who could check her out?

 

[ruscara]

I am no expert, but my first thought was that her poll might be out. I believe that a check by a physio or chiropractor might show up some pain. It could also be some sort of neuralgia (trigeminal neuralgia perhaps) though often they headshake with that. I would certainly get a chiropractor, if it were up to me.

 

[sojeph]

Ears maybe? or poll? or maybe its her eyes?

 

[hussar]

Sounds to me too like something wrong with poll or ears. Unlikely to be a bitting issue if she also rebelled against the hackamore. Chiropractor or X-ray? (X-ray might also show up any problem with teeth/jaw.)

 

[meandmyself]

Is the browband big enough? I know of one horse who used to bite when tacking up- the bridle fit him well, but the browband was a little bit too short and it dug into him.

 

[so03]

I watched a training video of Richard Maxwells. He had a horse exactly the same. Difficult to put on bridle and was not happy about the headcollar either. Also had problems with the farrier/picking up the front legs and stretching them forwards.

Turns out the horse had a problem in its shoulder that had run through up it's neck and into it's poll. As other suggest get a good osteo or similar out to check the horse. If no pain then assume it's a training issue.

Good luck.

 

[Tia]

Thanks everyone for your suggestions. The problem is not getting the bridle or halter over her head; she won't put her head in the halter and won't let the owner put the bit in her mouth. No problem with fiddling around her ears or poll, just mouth issues. She will stand and let you put the reins over her head without any fuss whatsoever, but when the bit comes into sight she shoots her head up in the air and doesn't want you touching her mouth.

Weird thing is that I can fiddle around with her mouth no problem when the bit isn't in sight?? I can lay the leadrope on the poll and she doesn't fuss whatsoever. Quite strange.

 

[sojeph]

Sound more like a p**s take then! or she's had a good clunk as the bit has come out at some time. Back to basics?

 

[spaniel]

Tia has the vet/dentist suggested xraying the front of the mouth for root damage? The fact that you can play around with her with your fingers yet she wont accept anything metallic does suggest some sort of pain to me either in the jaw or possibly the end of the bone in the nose.

Short of trying one of those leather bits (the name escapes me for the moment) its the only thing I can think of.

 

[Tia]

Yes I think back to basics is the only option at this moment in time. We'll see how she is once she is here and has chilled out a little.

 

[Tia]

The problem is that the woman has spent a fortune on trying to "sort" this horse out. I am not sure she would be up for paying for x-rays unfortunately. She has become so despondent now and until yesterday she felt there was no hope and was planning on putting the horse through the auction tonight. She has spent over 3,000 total on trying to get the horse right and I do feel a bit sorry for her. She bought the horse from a dealer with a less than great reputation and who knows what has happened to this little mare. Trouble is if she sells at the auction she will make a huge loss on the mare and then it gets passed onto someone else. Always best to sort the problem out in my opinion.

She has had "trainers" working with the horse and their way was to hit the horse and yank down sharply with the reins whenever she fuffs around.

I do agree with you in that I believe it is a mouth issue (or mental issue relating to mouth issues in the past) and I did wonder whether the taking out of the wolf tooth was the problem....perhaps not done properly. I have never had wolf teeth taken out but I would have thought that 2 months is long enough for the pain/opening to clear and be more comfortable for the horse. I couldn't see anything in her mouth that could account for this sort of reaction although the bars on one side of her mouth did look blackened - perhaps her normal colour or previous injury?

My questionmark is wondering whether this is physical or mental?? I can't really figure that out and without more vet tests will just have to try to assume it is mental. It's always difficult to best judge when it is someone else's money involved.

 

[spaniel]

Yes, tricky situation and I totally agree that sending this poor little horse off to auction is the last thing the owner should be doing. I can totally understand her frustration and why she would consider selling this way though.

It could be that the black markings are just pigment but equally could be serious old mouth damage and that being the case you are looking at a lot of time spent on the psycological side of things.

It maybe that she will never accept being bitted and any riding may have to be done with a neck strap and perhaps a bosal?

 

[Tia]

Oh just one other thing; I did notice that she makes a weird noise from her nose when she is standing still. Sounds like sinusitis, no snot, just a rumbled noise in her breathing once in a while. So could it be a nasal issue??

 

[spaniel]

Bells ringing!!!!!!

I know someone who had an arab that would gag as soon as you bitted it and he made weird throat noises too. Couldnt get to the bottom of it at all and he ended up in a hackamore for all disciplines.

Not much help to you since the hackamore has already been tried but it could well be linked.

The bit/feel of the bit/idea of the bit may be inducing, or have induced in the past, some sort of appnoea??

 

[siennamum]

Could be an epyglottal cyst or similar. If she has a large lump in her throat she may not physically be able to tuck her nose in/ bring her head down and may panic if asked to. Should be visible if she's scoped, may even be able to feel it.
They are more common than many people suspect

 

[Tia]

Interesting. It could easily be something like this then. I wonder what she is like being ridden in a halter?? Hackamore did not seem to be the problem-solver that I thought it would be. She wears a halter all the time so perhaps riding her in a halter that is already on may help because no stress of actually putting bridle on?

 

[Tia]

Yes panic is the word! No probs with putting anything over her head and no probs with fiddling around mouth........but once bit is shown, she definitely panics!

Once I saw her reaction to the bit I did not try to force her and I just worked with her on the ground in her headcollar.

Owner won't spend any more money on vet bills (understandably so) and I am lucky to even get a shot with this horse, so I feel this is her last chance or I can see her ending up as glue.

Unfortunately I only have what I have to work with, even if it does prove a physical issue unless she improves mentally then I know owner will not spend one more penny on her.

Horse doesn't have a problem with bringing her head into "on the bit" position as she does this naturally the minute she sees the bag with the "god forbid" treats!! Gets very excited when treats are around!! She'll get a fright when she comes here as I do NOT do edible treats, LOL!!

The noise is weird though as she does not do it all the time, just once in a while.