WOW! God bless these people
- Thread starter nuffield
- Start date
dieseldog
Well-Known Member
When are you going to stop posting this stuff?
The more you buy, the bigger the market, the more that are going to end up there.
The more you buy, the bigger the market, the more that are going to end up there.
Tinkerbee
Well-Known Member
*bangs head on wall*
kayleigh_and_rocky
Well-Known Member
I don't understand
flohelf
Well-Known Member
What's the problem....?
pixie
Well-Known Member
If you're confused, read the very long post in th NL
burtie
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
When are you going to stop posting this stuff?
The more you buy, the bigger the market, the more that are going to end up there.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think that is the point, this is a good way to make a bit more money from otherwise meat value only horses IMO
When are you going to stop posting this stuff?
The more you buy, the bigger the market, the more that are going to end up there.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think that is the point, this is a good way to make a bit more money from otherwise meat value only horses IMO
Baggybreeches
Well-Known Member
OK so the plan is??????
I would suggest that as this person is exploiting/infiltrating the forum, that we dont read the posts made by this user, and at some point he/she will GO AWAY!!!!!!!!!
Admin please??!!
I would suggest that as this person is exploiting/infiltrating the forum, that we dont read the posts made by this user, and at some point he/she will GO AWAY!!!!!!!!!
Admin please??!!
Tia
Well-Known Member
Almost 40 horses being shipped - how much does that add up to in shipping costs? Sounds reasonably profitable to me plus the cost of the horses.....hmmm.
_OC_
Well-Known Member
Am I losing the plot....or being brainwashed here!
.......strange,feel there is some kinda of weird code happening or she's lost it!
Tia
Well-Known Member
It's not much better than a scam. Playing on peoples emotions in order to have a valid business....
JM07
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
It's not much better than a scam. Playing on peoples emotions in order to have a valid business....
[/ QUOTE ]
Ditto......
It's not much better than a scam. Playing on peoples emotions in order to have a valid business....
[/ QUOTE ]
Ditto......
Hedgewitch13
Well-Known Member
I have a feeling of deja vu......
trundle
Well-Known Member
Is the person who is plugging these horses for sale actually their owner? So they put heart-rending posts up saying "please save these ickle ponies from the nasty sausage-maker", and charges twice as much as the sausage-maker would buy them for...but if they don't sell, they go to the sausage-machine anyway.
Good business if you can pull it off !
Good business if you can pull it off !
Gonetofrance
Well-Known Member
I have read the other thread, but this is sadly real, and I am in the process of getting a little unbroken rose grey Lusitano 4yo from 41. A lot of these horses are there because the owners for what ever reason just don't want them and send then off to the sales. This time of year, especially in Spain, there is no grass for them to eat. The continental attitude to horses is very different to the UK. Many owners just want rid of them if they are no longer needed, cannot be bothered with them, or cannot do their job any longer. The guy at the fattening farm only makes so many trips a year anyway, and it is no skin off his nose whether they go for meat or to a buyer. He is not charging any more for them from the farm than he would get from the abbatoir. There are unscrupulous dealers who do that, but £450 is meat money. So I do not believe that we are particlarly increasing his trade. Yes the slots will be filled, but I don't believe at any quicker a rate than he would have done anyway. I live in France, and I understand the psyche here. Animals are not treated the same as in the UK. For the last two summers I have watched two gorgeous Percheron foals grow up 3km away from me, and disappear in the autumn. They go 15 mins down the road to the abbatoir. Whilst that upsets me, they have had a lovely life to that point and it is a short journey to the end, so it is no worse than what happens to cattle. I don't like it, but it is not cruel. Apparently 80% of Percherons bred in France go for meat, but mostly they are killed locally, not enduring the journey from hell. I eat meat, not horses, but beef, pork and lamb, so I cannot condemn those that eat horsemeat. But horses bred for meat, as most of the other livestock around here, have no other knowlege of a life. The horses that have been brought up and handled are different.
What happens to these pregnant mares with foals at foot travelling to Italy is cruel. They choose the slighter built horses rather than cobs because the meat is not so full of fat.
They buy pregnant mares as they are heavy without the meat being fat and the hormones add to the taste of the meat. Also the foals are meat whether killed before or after birth has occured. They are sent to Italy because they eat more horsemeat and will kill pregnant mares, which they won't do in France.
At present the law states that a mare cannot travel beyond 90% into her pregnancy. As I'm sure you're aware, mares can easily foal that early. I have friends who work for the ILPH, and have seen these slaughterhouses, and the trampled newborn foals, and the mares. Please don't knock those people trying to do a bit of good, and raise the awareness of the horrors of transporting horses for meat to Italy.
The IHDG ( the link at the top) is another horse forum, with concerned people trying to save some of the horses. The actual nouvelle de vie site is a French site with normal horses for sale, but also with a section devoted to the horses that are at the last stop before slaughter. These are not people out to make money, they are only trying to save these horses from what is unfortunately a horrible long journey to a horrible end, without adequate provision, as horse welfare in transit is not governed by the the same legislation as livestock transit. Legally agricultural animals have to be regularly checked, but the horse can legitimately travel for 24 hours with no stops or checks. How else would our riders get home in a day from International shows on the continent?
I am fully aware that the problem needs to be addressed at the root level, ie the transport of horsemeat must be ''on the hook'' not ''on the hoof''. I have fundraised with my work in the past for the ILPH, and am in the process of doing so again, thanks to someone drawing my attention to what is happening to these animals on another site. So however disparaging any of you want to be about what we are all trying to do, we are at least trying. In the process of heated debate, the issue is being read about by a lot more people, so if nothing else we are raising awareness for the campaign by having our reasons discussed here.
What happens to these pregnant mares with foals at foot travelling to Italy is cruel. They choose the slighter built horses rather than cobs because the meat is not so full of fat.
They buy pregnant mares as they are heavy without the meat being fat and the hormones add to the taste of the meat. Also the foals are meat whether killed before or after birth has occured. They are sent to Italy because they eat more horsemeat and will kill pregnant mares, which they won't do in France.
At present the law states that a mare cannot travel beyond 90% into her pregnancy. As I'm sure you're aware, mares can easily foal that early. I have friends who work for the ILPH, and have seen these slaughterhouses, and the trampled newborn foals, and the mares. Please don't knock those people trying to do a bit of good, and raise the awareness of the horrors of transporting horses for meat to Italy.
The IHDG ( the link at the top) is another horse forum, with concerned people trying to save some of the horses. The actual nouvelle de vie site is a French site with normal horses for sale, but also with a section devoted to the horses that are at the last stop before slaughter. These are not people out to make money, they are only trying to save these horses from what is unfortunately a horrible long journey to a horrible end, without adequate provision, as horse welfare in transit is not governed by the the same legislation as livestock transit. Legally agricultural animals have to be regularly checked, but the horse can legitimately travel for 24 hours with no stops or checks. How else would our riders get home in a day from International shows on the continent?
I am fully aware that the problem needs to be addressed at the root level, ie the transport of horsemeat must be ''on the hook'' not ''on the hoof''. I have fundraised with my work in the past for the ILPH, and am in the process of doing so again, thanks to someone drawing my attention to what is happening to these animals on another site. So however disparaging any of you want to be about what we are all trying to do, we are at least trying. In the process of heated debate, the issue is being read about by a lot more people, so if nothing else we are raising awareness for the campaign by having our reasons discussed here.
coffeeadict
Well-Known Member
Horses can NOT legally travel 24 hours without being checked.The 2007 Regulations regarding horse transport are very strict and apply to all transporters in Europe. Lorries must stop after 8 hours to feed/water. They must be unloaded after 24 hours - then rest for 24 hours. In reality the driving time can not exceed 22 hours - as this would then be in breach of taco laws. All lorries must have fans and recordable temperature monitoring. Ramps must not exceed a set angle. Partitions must be used. Sufficient feed and water for the number of horses must be carried on board etc. etc. All transporters travelling distances taking longer than 8 hours must have a T2 authorisation and lorries carry an approval plate to show that the lorry itself has been approved.
D
Donkeymad
Guest
I heard there were some derogatory things said about the transporter. I haven't seen them, but they would be well deserved. I know all about him, he is not who or what he seems.
minkymoo
Well-Known Member
Thanks Gonetofrance, you have put a point I have tried to make several time far better than I could. Sadly it is not about the eating of horsemeat (as I personally wouldn't - then I wouldn't eat dog either) but about the appalling transportation that they have to endure.
This surely is the crux of the issue?
This surely is the crux of the issue?
Gonetofrance
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Horses can NOT legally travel 24 hours without being checked.The 2007 Regulations regarding horse transport are very strict and apply to all transporters in Europe. Lorries must stop after 8 hours to feed/water.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's my error, I was unaware that the 8 hour rule had been brough in for horses in February, I must have read it incorrectly.
[ QUOTE ]
They must be unloaded after 24 hours - then rest for 24 hours. In reality the driving time can not exceed 22 hours - as this would then be in breach of taco laws. All lorries must have fans and recordable temperature monitoring. Ramps must not exceed a set angle. Partitions must be used. Sufficient feed and water for the number of horses must be carried on board etc. etc. All transporters travelling distances taking longer than 8 hours must have a T2 authorisation and lorries carry an approval plate to show that the lorry itself has been approved.
[/ QUOTE ]
As regards any of this legislation, none of it seems to be obeyed here. I went to a horse sale locally, and the butcher was buying horses across the spectrum and loading them onto a truck with a high ramp and no partitions. These horses were very frightened, and were whinnying and panicking. I hope that they were lucky enough to only be going on the 3 hour trip to Bordeaux. Unfortunately as French slaughterhouses will not accept unchipped or unpapered animals, or so I've been led to believe by one of the welfare groups out here (no doubt you might be able to prove me wrong on this as I cannot find it written anywhere) I suspect this was the start of a long haul for them. This is why it is so important to push as hard as possible for the on the hook transport only.
Horses can NOT legally travel 24 hours without being checked.The 2007 Regulations regarding horse transport are very strict and apply to all transporters in Europe. Lorries must stop after 8 hours to feed/water.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's my error, I was unaware that the 8 hour rule had been brough in for horses in February, I must have read it incorrectly.
[ QUOTE ]
They must be unloaded after 24 hours - then rest for 24 hours. In reality the driving time can not exceed 22 hours - as this would then be in breach of taco laws. All lorries must have fans and recordable temperature monitoring. Ramps must not exceed a set angle. Partitions must be used. Sufficient feed and water for the number of horses must be carried on board etc. etc. All transporters travelling distances taking longer than 8 hours must have a T2 authorisation and lorries carry an approval plate to show that the lorry itself has been approved.
[/ QUOTE ]
As regards any of this legislation, none of it seems to be obeyed here. I went to a horse sale locally, and the butcher was buying horses across the spectrum and loading them onto a truck with a high ramp and no partitions. These horses were very frightened, and were whinnying and panicking. I hope that they were lucky enough to only be going on the 3 hour trip to Bordeaux. Unfortunately as French slaughterhouses will not accept unchipped or unpapered animals, or so I've been led to believe by one of the welfare groups out here (no doubt you might be able to prove me wrong on this as I cannot find it written anywhere) I suspect this was the start of a long haul for them. This is why it is so important to push as hard as possible for the on the hook transport only.
JM07
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Almost 40 horses being shipped - how much does that add up to in shipping costs? Sounds reasonably profitable to me plus the cost of the horses.....hmmm.
[/ QUOTE ]
maybe i should put my company forward...seems very lucrative......
Almost 40 horses being shipped - how much does that add up to in shipping costs? Sounds reasonably profitable to me plus the cost of the horses.....hmmm.
[/ QUOTE ]
maybe i should put my company forward...seems very lucrative......
Gonetofrance
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Almost 40 horses being shipped - how much does that add up to in shipping costs? Sounds reasonably profitable to me plus the cost of the horses.....hmmm.
[/ QUOTE ]
maybe i should put my company forward...seems very lucrative......
[/ QUOTE ]
Where are you getting the 40 horses being shipped from?
If you have assumed that from the list then you are very wrong. I know at least 15 of these horses have been taken by people who live in France, who have each had to arrange their own transport. As I will be doing. France is a big country, and it'll take me a good five and a half hours to get to 41. As it took other people, but in different locations. No transporter is making any money out of shipping them all over the place.
On the list as far as I can see, only five are mentioned as being taken by the English. I'm unsure about the rest, as either there is no name for a new owner, or I haven't heard of them. But I would hazard a guess that the names are French.
I really don't understand this callous attitude. There is very little wrong with these horses other than that they were unlucky enough to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. I have seen photos of quite a few of them, and a friend over here has a full papered 4yo Lusitano colt who is absolutely stunning, with nothing wrong with him. And you would pay the best part of £7000 for hin in the UK.
Spain and France are so different to the UK it is hard to understand that decent horses can be just binned. But they are...........
[ QUOTE ]
Almost 40 horses being shipped - how much does that add up to in shipping costs? Sounds reasonably profitable to me plus the cost of the horses.....hmmm.
[/ QUOTE ]
maybe i should put my company forward...seems very lucrative......
[/ QUOTE ]
Where are you getting the 40 horses being shipped from?
If you have assumed that from the list then you are very wrong. I know at least 15 of these horses have been taken by people who live in France, who have each had to arrange their own transport. As I will be doing. France is a big country, and it'll take me a good five and a half hours to get to 41. As it took other people, but in different locations. No transporter is making any money out of shipping them all over the place.
On the list as far as I can see, only five are mentioned as being taken by the English. I'm unsure about the rest, as either there is no name for a new owner, or I haven't heard of them. But I would hazard a guess that the names are French.
I really don't understand this callous attitude. There is very little wrong with these horses other than that they were unlucky enough to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. I have seen photos of quite a few of them, and a friend over here has a full papered 4yo Lusitano colt who is absolutely stunning, with nothing wrong with him. And you would pay the best part of £7000 for hin in the UK.
Spain and France are so different to the UK it is hard to understand that decent horses can be just binned. But they are...........
Tia
Well-Known Member
I don't believe I commented on where the horses were being shipped to - purely that they are being shipped. That aside, if these horses are destined for the meat man in France, to the knackers "down the road", then why is there such a big song and dance about "on the hook - not on the hoof"? Doesn't appear to make one bit of sense to me, as this is a British campaign for British horses being transported live.
Educating the source of the problem is the only way to totally eradicate this....and both you and I know that this is never going to happen in the forseeable future.
Educating the source of the problem is the only way to totally eradicate this....and both you and I know that this is never going to happen in the forseeable future.
Gonetofrance
Well-Known Member
I don't believe I commented on where the horses were being shipped to - purely that they are being shipped.
I don't believe I quoted you? I quoted someone implying it was a nice little earner.
That aside, if these horses are destined for the meat man in France, to the knackers "down the road", then why is there such a big song and dance about "on the hook - not on the hoof"?
If you are going to cherry pick appropriate phrases, at least get your facts straight. Reread my post properly. I wrote that I didn't really have a problem with the ''down the road'' to the abbatoir, I don't like the though of any horses going for meat, but that I do accept it is a way on life on the continent, but if they are travelled fairly locally, as are most horses bred for meat here then it is not cruel.
What we are talking about here is what needs to be done so that the EU is fully aware of the dreadful conditions and horrific journey lengths that these animals endure en route to Italy, and have the regulations tightened up so that it becomes more expensive to travel the horses on the hoof, in which case they will be slaughtered and transported on the hook in refrigerated trucks. At the moment it is cheaper to transport them live.
The changed legislation will benefit all horses transported anywhere in the EU.
Doesn't appear to make one bit of sense to me, as this is a British campaign for British horses being transported live.
It is not a 'British' campaign for 'British' horses, again, please get your facts straight. The ILPH (INTERNATIONAL League for the Protection of Horses) was founded initially to help the British horses being butchered on the continent. The 'on the hook' campaign is about changing the EUROPEAN regulations by which the UK is governed. As far as I'm aware, there has never been an issue about horses transported within the UK for meat, it is when these horses reach the continent that they endure the horrendous conditions. The British can make as many rules as they like, but they will have no bearing on what happens to these animals once they are on the continent.
This is lifted from the ILPH website;
According to recent figures from customs and excise, there are no exports of live horses from the UK for slaughter.
So what do you think they are fighting for?
This sort of thing, maybe?
In March 2004, the ILPH handed a petition of 85,410 signatures to the European Parliament ahead of their vote on a new EU Regulation which would dictate how all animals, including horses should be transported within the EU. This petition resulted in many of the ILPHs recommendations being adopted, including one amendment which would enable the UK to introduce higher standards of welfare within our own borders and during crossings by sea.
And this?
The number of horses for slaughter entering Italy from Spain has increased significantly. It has been suggested that there have been a number of breaches of the EU Transport Regulations with some of the consignments of horses being moved from Spain.
These horses in 41 have come from Spain and are part of what is being investigated.
More info;
http://www.ilph.org/campaigns_details.asp?id=772
Educating the source of the problem is the only way to totally eradicate this....and both you and I know that this is never going to happen in the forseeable future.
Do not presume to include me in your opinions.
Unless you go down the controlling breeding route which is a whole different subject and not what is being discussed here, the problem is that you will never 'educate' the butchers and dealers. The only way to reach them is through their pocket and to make it financially not viable. What needs to be done is that the EU is fully aware of the dreadful conditions and horrific journey lengths that these animals endure, and have the regulations tightened up so that it becomes more expensive to travel the horses on the hoof, in which case they will be slaughtered and transported on the hook in refrigerated trucks. At the moment it is cheaper to transport them live.
I know the next aim is to reduce the 24 hours journey time which they hope will make it more economicla to transport them as carcasses.
I still don't follow why you need to knock what is being done.
I don't believe I quoted you? I quoted someone implying it was a nice little earner.
That aside, if these horses are destined for the meat man in France, to the knackers "down the road", then why is there such a big song and dance about "on the hook - not on the hoof"?
If you are going to cherry pick appropriate phrases, at least get your facts straight. Reread my post properly. I wrote that I didn't really have a problem with the ''down the road'' to the abbatoir, I don't like the though of any horses going for meat, but that I do accept it is a way on life on the continent, but if they are travelled fairly locally, as are most horses bred for meat here then it is not cruel.
What we are talking about here is what needs to be done so that the EU is fully aware of the dreadful conditions and horrific journey lengths that these animals endure en route to Italy, and have the regulations tightened up so that it becomes more expensive to travel the horses on the hoof, in which case they will be slaughtered and transported on the hook in refrigerated trucks. At the moment it is cheaper to transport them live.
The changed legislation will benefit all horses transported anywhere in the EU.
Doesn't appear to make one bit of sense to me, as this is a British campaign for British horses being transported live.
It is not a 'British' campaign for 'British' horses, again, please get your facts straight. The ILPH (INTERNATIONAL League for the Protection of Horses) was founded initially to help the British horses being butchered on the continent. The 'on the hook' campaign is about changing the EUROPEAN regulations by which the UK is governed. As far as I'm aware, there has never been an issue about horses transported within the UK for meat, it is when these horses reach the continent that they endure the horrendous conditions. The British can make as many rules as they like, but they will have no bearing on what happens to these animals once they are on the continent.
This is lifted from the ILPH website;
According to recent figures from customs and excise, there are no exports of live horses from the UK for slaughter.
So what do you think they are fighting for?
This sort of thing, maybe?
In March 2004, the ILPH handed a petition of 85,410 signatures to the European Parliament ahead of their vote on a new EU Regulation which would dictate how all animals, including horses should be transported within the EU. This petition resulted in many of the ILPHs recommendations being adopted, including one amendment which would enable the UK to introduce higher standards of welfare within our own borders and during crossings by sea.
And this?
The number of horses for slaughter entering Italy from Spain has increased significantly. It has been suggested that there have been a number of breaches of the EU Transport Regulations with some of the consignments of horses being moved from Spain.
These horses in 41 have come from Spain and are part of what is being investigated.
More info;
http://www.ilph.org/campaigns_details.asp?id=772
Educating the source of the problem is the only way to totally eradicate this....and both you and I know that this is never going to happen in the forseeable future.
Do not presume to include me in your opinions.
Unless you go down the controlling breeding route which is a whole different subject and not what is being discussed here, the problem is that you will never 'educate' the butchers and dealers. The only way to reach them is through their pocket and to make it financially not viable. What needs to be done is that the EU is fully aware of the dreadful conditions and horrific journey lengths that these animals endure, and have the regulations tightened up so that it becomes more expensive to travel the horses on the hoof, in which case they will be slaughtered and transported on the hook in refrigerated trucks. At the moment it is cheaper to transport them live.
I know the next aim is to reduce the 24 hours journey time which they hope will make it more economicla to transport them as carcasses.
I still don't follow why you need to knock what is being done.
Skhosu
Well-Known Member
So buying the horses makes it financially not viable..I don't think so since from what I can see from some posts the price for a horse is .33 euor more per kilo to a rescuer than to the meat!
Gonetofrance
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
So buying the horses makes it financially not viable..I don't think so since from what I can see from some posts the price for a horse is .33 euor more per kilo to a rescuer than to the meat!
[/ QUOTE ]
Are you so determined to put down people who are actually doing something that you deliberately misunderstand, or is that the point is just not penetrating?
I said; the problem is that you will never 'educate' the butchers and dealers. The only way to reach them is through their pocket and to make it financially not viable. What needs to be done is that the EU is fully aware of the dreadful conditions and horrific journey lengths that these animals endure, and have the regulations tightened up so that it becomes more expensive to travel the horses on the hoof, in which case they will be slaughtered and transported on the hook in refrigerated trucks. At the moment it is cheaper to transport them live.
Once the aimed for legislation comes into play there will be no need to buy these horses, as they will be already dead and on the hook, if that is their destiny. They will not be facing the horrors of these journeys. Or do you think that it is acceptable to do nothing to prevent the suffering?
As already said, there are no extra trips to replenish the horses saved, he just doesn't care where they end up. It still is just meat money.
You can be as smug as you like about how I might be paying a fraction more than than the statistics quoted, but I really don't care if I can offer a young horse a future.
I am doing this as well as doing something to fundraise for the campaign. I only came on this thread to try and put straight what appeared to be the consensus that it was some kind of scam to make money by the shippers.
The ILPH also save horses that can have a future. Are they wrong too?
You beggar belief, you really do.
So buying the horses makes it financially not viable..I don't think so since from what I can see from some posts the price for a horse is .33 euor more per kilo to a rescuer than to the meat!
[/ QUOTE ]
Are you so determined to put down people who are actually doing something that you deliberately misunderstand, or is that the point is just not penetrating?
I said; the problem is that you will never 'educate' the butchers and dealers. The only way to reach them is through their pocket and to make it financially not viable. What needs to be done is that the EU is fully aware of the dreadful conditions and horrific journey lengths that these animals endure, and have the regulations tightened up so that it becomes more expensive to travel the horses on the hoof, in which case they will be slaughtered and transported on the hook in refrigerated trucks. At the moment it is cheaper to transport them live.
Once the aimed for legislation comes into play there will be no need to buy these horses, as they will be already dead and on the hook, if that is their destiny. They will not be facing the horrors of these journeys. Or do you think that it is acceptable to do nothing to prevent the suffering?
As already said, there are no extra trips to replenish the horses saved, he just doesn't care where they end up. It still is just meat money.
You can be as smug as you like about how I might be paying a fraction more than than the statistics quoted, but I really don't care if I can offer a young horse a future.
I am doing this as well as doing something to fundraise for the campaign. I only came on this thread to try and put straight what appeared to be the consensus that it was some kind of scam to make money by the shippers.
The ILPH also save horses that can have a future. Are they wrong too?
You beggar belief, you really do.
Gonetofrance
Well-Known Member
Ignore the 'beggar belief' bit, I wrote it in frustration and forgot to delete it and now I can't.............
Everything else stands tho'.
Everything else stands tho'.
Dusty
Active Member
Have I missed something?
I cant see where anyone has said that "buying" these horses will make it financially not viable?
also I am not sure that educating the source will really help..that would imply that those responsible for this suffering to not understand..I think they do understand but they just dont care!
However they would understand if it did become financially not viable...which I believe would happen if the rules etc were tightened and they had to comply.
I cant understand either why people think it is a scam and that the transporters are involved..the people buying these horses contacted many transporters for quotes and then made a choice..a lot also depended on who was where and at what time.
I cant see where anyone has said that "buying" these horses will make it financially not viable?
also I am not sure that educating the source will really help..that would imply that those responsible for this suffering to not understand..I think they do understand but they just dont care!
However they would understand if it did become financially not viable...which I believe would happen if the rules etc were tightened and they had to comply.
I cant understand either why people think it is a scam and that the transporters are involved..the people buying these horses contacted many transporters for quotes and then made a choice..a lot also depended on who was where and at what time.
watakerfuffle
Well-Known Member
I think it is great what all these people have done to save these horses and if I was in a position to I would also buy one! It has certainly brought to my attention the live export campain whereas before I was completely ignorant to it as I see others are.
I have no problem with horses going for meat, that's life like any other livestock going for meat. It's the live export that really upsets me and the fact that many journeys are still carried out illegally with overstocked lorries and all travelling loose without individual stools and few rest stops. The stress and injuries they injure must be horrific.
I know that buying the horses destined for the butcher is not the answer in the long term however at the end of the day it is peoples personal choice if they feel they would like to help in that way as I would also. The ILPH have an ongoing campaign and there ultimate aim is to end the long distance transport of horses to slaughter in Europe and replace it with a carcase only trade. Currently though they are campaigning for a decrease in journey times and stricter enforcement of Regulation 1/2005 (which was introduced in January of this year). I will be supporting this campaign and hope others will to.
There is lots of information on the ILPH website, perhaps people should look into the campaign and look at the facts before making judgement!
I have no problem with horses going for meat, that's life like any other livestock going for meat. It's the live export that really upsets me and the fact that many journeys are still carried out illegally with overstocked lorries and all travelling loose without individual stools and few rest stops. The stress and injuries they injure must be horrific.
I know that buying the horses destined for the butcher is not the answer in the long term however at the end of the day it is peoples personal choice if they feel they would like to help in that way as I would also. The ILPH have an ongoing campaign and there ultimate aim is to end the long distance transport of horses to slaughter in Europe and replace it with a carcase only trade. Currently though they are campaigning for a decrease in journey times and stricter enforcement of Regulation 1/2005 (which was introduced in January of this year). I will be supporting this campaign and hope others will to.
There is lots of information on the ILPH website, perhaps people should look into the campaign and look at the facts before making judgement!
Tia
Well-Known Member
Thank you for taking the time to write such a long response, however I'd like to clarify a couple of points which you have misunderstood:
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I don't believe I quoted you? I quoted someone implying it was a nice little earner
[/ QUOTE ] Yep; that would have been me.
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at least get your facts straight. Reread my post properly.
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I wasn't talking about what you had said, this was a general comment to others.
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The changed legislation will benefit all horses transported anywhere in the EU.
[/ QUOTE ] Well obviously as if it is changed it will be an EU Law.
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As far as I'm aware, there has never been an issue about horses transported within the UK for meat, it is when these horses reach the continent that they endure the horrendous conditions.
[/ QUOTE ] Well that goes without saying.
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The number of horses for slaughter entering Italy from Spain has increased significantly.
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I guess it is picking out pieces which suit; interesting that on the same site they suggest this:
10. There is a general decrease in the trade of horses for meat. Since in 2001 the number of horses transported live for slaughter in the EU has decreased from 165,000 to around 100,000.
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Do not presume to include me in your opinions.
Unless you go down the controlling breeding route which is a whole different subject and not what is being discussed here
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Ah! That's me told then.....
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you will never 'educate' the butchers and dealers. The only way to reach them is through their pocket and to make it financially not viable
[/ QUOTE ] Right.....and by buying these horses does what exactly, to help this situation?
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I still don't follow why you need to knock what is being done.
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Well that might be something to do with the fact I live in a country who produces the worlds largest amount of meat horses.....and I understand economics.
[ QUOTE ]
I don't believe I quoted you? I quoted someone implying it was a nice little earner
[/ QUOTE ] Yep; that would have been me.
[ QUOTE ]
at least get your facts straight. Reread my post properly.
[/ QUOTE ]
I wasn't talking about what you had said, this was a general comment to others.
[ QUOTE ]
The changed legislation will benefit all horses transported anywhere in the EU.
[/ QUOTE ] Well obviously as if it is changed it will be an EU Law.
[ QUOTE ]
As far as I'm aware, there has never been an issue about horses transported within the UK for meat, it is when these horses reach the continent that they endure the horrendous conditions.
[/ QUOTE ] Well that goes without saying.
[ QUOTE ]
The number of horses for slaughter entering Italy from Spain has increased significantly.
[/ QUOTE ]
I guess it is picking out pieces which suit; interesting that on the same site they suggest this:
10. There is a general decrease in the trade of horses for meat. Since in 2001 the number of horses transported live for slaughter in the EU has decreased from 165,000 to around 100,000.
[ QUOTE ]
Do not presume to include me in your opinions.
Unless you go down the controlling breeding route which is a whole different subject and not what is being discussed here
[/ QUOTE ]
Ah! That's me told then.....
[ QUOTE ]
you will never 'educate' the butchers and dealers. The only way to reach them is through their pocket and to make it financially not viable
[/ QUOTE ] Right.....and by buying these horses does what exactly, to help this situation?
[ QUOTE ]
I still don't follow why you need to knock what is being done.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well that might be something to do with the fact I live in a country who produces the worlds largest amount of meat horses.....and I understand economics.
Dusty
Active Member
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Right.....and by buying these horses does what exactly, to help this situation?
Perhaps it is true that buying them is not contributing at the moment to making it financially not viable..but at the end of the day these horses/people have helped raise more awareness of whats happening..surely a good thing and in the grand scheme of things.....if getting more publicity and more signatures etc..this can only be classed as helping?
Right.....and by buying these horses does what exactly, to help this situation?
Perhaps it is true that buying them is not contributing at the moment to making it financially not viable..but at the end of the day these horses/people have helped raise more awareness of whats happening..surely a good thing and in the grand scheme of things.....if getting more publicity and more signatures etc..this can only be classed as helping?