Wrong canter lead - horse problem or me problem?

[frankieduck]

I have a mare that has always struggled with getting the correct lead on the right. She came off the track so assumed for first few months it was a strength/schooling issue from always running left but after not really improving I sent her in for a full work-up. Vet didn't find much of note other than some mild changes in one stifle, we medicated and she was signed off a few weeks later that treatment had worked and she was now showing no signs of any issues.

Before treatment she would always get the wrong lead on the right rein whether on the lunge or ridden, sometimes changing herself in front but disuniting. Since treatment she never gets the wrong lead on the lunge and happily pops herself on the correct lead and will do a fairly acceptable balanced canter on the right rein. However ridden she is still getting the wrong lead 9 times out of 10. She's a sensitive mare so when she gets it wrong she then tends to get herself in a tizz and anticipate me asking again and instead just keeps leaping into canter of her own accord, on the wrong leg Which makes it really hard to work on this consistently as I can't get a nice calm transition! If I jump her and she happens to land on the right lead, she's happy to stay on it. If I canter her out hacking and she chooses the right lead, she is happy to stay on it. It's only a flatwork issues. Popped my trainer on her, and she got the right lead.

This leads me to thinking I MUST be the problem, but what am I doing wrong? Or rather what can I change? I think I am unwittingly throwing my weight/seat during the transition and not supporting her through the transition. Is there a magic trick to make sure I am riding the transition correctly? I do feel when I'm riding that my seat bones aren't always completely level and try to correct this, I have a wonky pelvis and think I tend to collapse through one hip. My trainer says visually I look fine so it's hard to correct me as he can't see it, I can just feel it. I've also been told previously that my wonkiness comes from holding too much tension in my shoulders which is transferring to my seat?

 

[cmkeventing]

I had a TB off the track that struggled with right canter lead. Like you instructor could get it but I couldnt. I was told make my transitions over exaggerated (right hand really far away from the neck, body really looking right, over exaggerated outside left back) and he started picking it up easier! Slowly bit by bit I was able to make the transition more tidy. This worked perfectly well for me for the next 2 years I owned him. Sold him and after a year the new owner messaged me saying her instructor was struggling to get right canter lead. I said the above and that me and my instructor put it down to a horse that didnt know how to bend very well, was unbalanced and unschooled. She had his back xrayed and turns out he has kissing spine. He was doing nothing other than not picking up the correct lead on the right rein and he was the most sensitive horse I have ever met. Did your horse have their back xrayed when they had the work up? I hate to be the person to put bad thoughts in peoples head but ever since that happened to my past horse, anything is possible

 

[frankieduck]

I had a TB off the track that struggled with right canter lead. Like you instructor could get it but I couldnt. I was told make my transitions over exaggerated (right hand really far away from the neck, body really looking right, over exaggerated outside left back) and he started picking it up easier! Slowly bit by bit I was able to make the transition more tidy. This worked perfectly well for me for the next 2 years I owned him. Sold him and after a year the new owner messaged me saying her instructor was struggling to get right canter lead. I said the above and that me and my instructor put it down to a horse that didnt know how to bend very well, was unbalanced and unschooled. She had his back xrayed and turns out he has kissing spine. He was doing nothing other than not picking up the correct lead on the right rein and he was the most sensitive horse I have ever met. Did your horse have their back xrayed when they had the work up? I hate to be the person to put bad thoughts in peoples head but ever since that happened to my past horse, anything is possible

I actually sent her in to have her back looked at as KS was my first thought, but vet was really happy with her back and said there were no concerns there, could do with strengthening up a bit but movement through the back was good and no typical symptoms she'd expect to see with a back issue, which is when we started digging a bit deeper and found the stifle issue

 

[cmkeventing]

I actually sent her in to have her back looked at as KS was my first thought, but vet was really happy with her back and said there were no concerns there, could do with strengthening up a bit but movement through the back was good and no typical symptoms she'd expect to see with a back issue, which is when we started digging a bit deeper and found the stifle issue

Thats good! I must admit I didnt think it would be but I also didnt think thats what I was going to be told about my last horse either I always felt if he was to of had KS he would be the type bucking, rearing, refusing etc and he did none of that!

 

[SEL]

I've got a whole thread somewhere about my problems with right canter. I did a tonne of slow, steady strengthening work whilst allowing him to choose whatever lead he wanted out hacking. I also impulse bought an equiseat aid which stopped me gripping with one leg. I think a combination of all of it helped - now it's his favourite canter lead and he flatly refused to do the other one last week

 

[Skib]

I am a rider of RS horses and I am not straight, always tending to have my weight to the right.
I think it is like being right or left handed. Horses have a preferred lead and it is usually right.
When you canter, the initial thrust comes fron the outside hind leg. That is the opposite side to the lead. Thus to get a left lead in canter I had to get the right hind to push off. But (I know) my weight tends to be on that right hind, making it hard for the horse.
On my old favourite (sadly long gone) I learned to do this on the straight out hacking by sitting trot and cueing for left lead canter with my right leg when my weight was on my left hip, the left hind of the horse.
The learning experience was so intense and such a relief that now twenty years later, I could take you to the track where I first managed to do it.
I think it also worth mentioning that you dont get that lead leg going forward until the third beat of each stride of canter, and thus three beats from when you cue.

My riding has deteriorated over the years. I cant honestly say which lead I have on my current share.

 

[ycbm]

I actually sent her in to have her back looked at as KS was my first thought, but vet was really happy with her back and said there were no concerns there, could do with strengthening up a bit but movement through the back was good and no typical symptoms she'd expect to see with a back issue, which is when we started digging a bit deeper and found the stifle issue

Did they actually x ray it?
.

 

[Burnttoast]

Just because your instructor can get the lead and you can't doesn't mean there isn't potentially a physical problem (whatever people may tell you). When something hurts the horse will take the line of least resistance, which a stronger rider can prevent. A fuller workup now may save you a lot of grief in the long run.

 

[frankieduck]

We x-rayed back and neck, didn’t find anything, so we blocked the stifle as next port of call and repeated the work up and once blocked the changing and disuniting stopped instantly on his lunge so we were pretty happy with that as a result. This has been consistent since we medicated, no more changing or disuniting but I can’t get the right lead consistently ridden.

She’s been seen by 2 vets, a vet physio and went to a rehab centre for a week while I was on holiday just as belt & braces and to strengthen her up a bit. They’ve all told me they can’t find anything wrong with her back

 

[frankieduck]

I've got a whole thread somewhere about my problems with right canter. I did a tonne of slow, steady strengthening work whilst allowing him to choose whatever lead he wanted out hacking. I also impulse bought an equiseat aid which stopped me gripping with one leg. I think a combination of all of it helped - now it's his favourite canter lead and he flatly refused to do the other one last week

Thank you I will look it up! I think I’m guilty of the gripping with one leg too but I’m damned if I can fix it

 

[frankieduck]

I also find if I just push on the trot and let her almost fall into canter rather than specifically asking for the transition she’ll get it right, it’s almost like I’m over thinking it myself and throwing my weight I think.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

It might be worth you having a few sessions on a mechanical horse which is programmed to give rider feedback.

 

[LEC]

I also find if I just push on the trot and let her almost fall into canter rather than specifically asking for the transition she’ll get it right, it’s almost like I’m over thinking it myself and throwing my weight I think.

I think you have answered your own question! Do less. She will eventually strengthen to be able to have riders weight and aids better but it takes a very long time. Thoroughbred dressage is a really good resource that might interest you. Howden Way also has lots with TAP programme.

 

[mariew]

Interestingly when I rode a riding school horse that struggled to pick up one lead she said to in effect take my weight off his back and rise in the stirrups. It worked really well for him

 

[DabDab]

It could also be a problem of anticipation. You're tensing up as you ask (or just before) because you are desperately trying to get it right, and then she's feeling that tension, going 'oh shit', and then just giving you the easiest canter lead.

Ultimately, even if you have solved the physical problem medically, you still have a physical problem at the moment, because she will still be very weak cantering on the right lead Vs the other side. So as said up thread, probably not worrying about the canter in the school too much for now and working on general strengthening, straightness and supplying work for a time instead would go a decent way to solving the issue (assuming she doesn't have anything else going on physical pain-wise)

 

[frankieduck]

It could also be a problem of anticipation. You're tensing up as you ask (or just before) because you are desperately trying to get it right, and then she's feeling that tension, going 'oh shit', and then just giving you the easiest canter lead.

Ultimately, even if you have solved the physical problem medically, you still have a physical problem at the moment, because she will still be very weak cantering on the right lead Vs the other side. So as said up thread, probably not worrying about the canter in the school too much for now and working on general strengthening, straightness and supplying work for a time instead would go a decent way to solving the issue (assuming she doesn't have anything else going on physical pain-wise)

Thank you I think you’ve hit the nail on the head! We are absolutely doing all of this, we have focussed on her balance in trot, suppleness, lateral work etc for several months and she has come on in leaps and bounds, I think I was just getting impatient that the canter wasn’t coming quicker but it’s reassuring that it could just be a time thing!

 

[frankieduck]

Interestingly when I rode a riding school horse that struggled to pick up one lead she said to in effect take my weight off his back and rise in the stirrups. It worked really well for him

This is essentially how my trainer rides her, he doesn’t force the transition at all or use strength, I think he’s just much more balanced and accurate than me and allows her to get it right if that makes sense, whereas I’m just cocking up the transition and confusing her.

 

[frankieduck]

I am a rider of RS horses and I am not straight, always tending to have my weight to the right.
I think it is like being right or left handed. Horses have a preferred lead and it is usually right.
When you canter, the initial thrust comes fron the outside hind leg. That is the opposite side to the lead. Thus to get a left lead in canter I had to get the right hind to push off. But (I know) my weight tends to be on that right hind, making it hard for the horse.
On my old favourite (sadly long gone) I learned to do this on the straight out hacking by sitting trot and cueing for left lead canter with my right leg when my weight was on my left hip, the left hind of the horse.
The learning experience was so intense and such a relief that now twenty years later, I could take you to the track where I first managed to do it.
I think it also worth mentioning that you dont get that lead leg going forward until the third beat of each stride of canter, and thus three beats from when you cue.

My riding has deteriorated over the years. I cant honestly say which lead I have on my current share.

I think this is exactly my issue. I broke my pelvis a few years back and definitely pitch my weight left now, I can tell as my left leg ‘locks’ and I tend to grip up a bit with my right leg. I also wear the sticky bum off my jods unevenly on the left side! It’s subtle but I know I’m doing it. Just wish I could fix it

 

[AandK]

It might be worth you having a few sessions on a mechanical horse which is programmed to give rider feedback.

I would definitely look at something like this, or a lesson with someone who will look at your posture and position in the saddle in great detail.

I have been doing Pilates recently, which has made me much more aware of my body positioning, where I put weight, how even the weight is etc. This has meant I've looked at how I sit in the saddle and made some adjustments to how I sit (I was slightly twisted to the left, shoulder and hip) and this has made a big different to my horse's way of going. We sometimes had issues getting right canter, and like your horse he is a sensitive exracer and would get his knickers in a twist with the stop/start when he got the wrong lead. That has all stopped now!

 

[SEL]

I also find if I just push on the trot and let her almost fall into canter rather than specifically asking for the transition she’ll get it right, it’s almost like I’m over thinking it myself and throwing my weight I think.

Guilty of that too!

I think this is exactly my issue. I broke my pelvis a few years back and definitely pitch my weight left now, I can tell as my left leg ‘locks’ and I tend to grip up a bit with my right leg. I also wear the sticky bum off my jods unevenly on the left side! It’s subtle but I know I’m doing it. Just wish I could fix it

It's worth looking up the Equiseat Aid and having a chat with them. It's bulky but it didn't take long to rejig my muscle memory.

 

[frankieduck]

For anyone who is vaguely interested, I recently switched to a new trainer for a fresh set of eyes. Within 2 lessons he pointed out that I carry a lot of tension through my left shoulder, and was holding my left shoulder around 3" higher than my right which meant I was not sitting evenly through my seatbones or riding straight (why has nobody pointed this out to me in 30 years!). I also tend to 'dive' into the canter transition and was subtly unbalancing my horse. On top of this she was not working from behind enough (which I was aware of). We worked on getting her truly supple on the right rein and powering from behind, along with my own straightness (and a lot of being shouted at to drop my left shoulder) and hey presto - correct lead every time. We even started on some walk to canter transitions to improve her hind end engagement and to my amazement we were able to get the correct lead almost every time (with the few times we didn't being because I wasn't straight and let go of the outside shoulder) and all in a lovely calm and uphill transition. I think new trainer may just be a miracle worker!