Wrong to insist your horse isn't lazy?

Kallibear

Kallibear

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Following my other post on 'How to make a fat little cob fizzy and forwards':

Do you think it's acceptable for a horse to be lazy and reluctant to work? That's it's just part of their nature and shouldn't be forced?

I personally feel all horses should be forward and willing (assuming there's no good reason not to be) and will be working Little Pips towards this (his 'good reason' currently is he's fat and unfit :o, but that's being worked on)

However some seem to believe that it's fine for a horse to be lazy and put as little effort in as possible and it wrong to try and change that?! In fact apparently (and I quote), it's "disgusting and immoral" to try and make them otherwise.

I'm rather suprised people do feel that way, other than if you specifically need a plod because you're nervous or novice.
 
I think if you want a plod keep them ploddy! they are hard to find.
But if you do want them to be more active then go for it they will soon Get a higher fittness level and realise.
Im not so sure
One of my old horses was a 3yo welsh c cobby type he was a plod but when it came to jumping "thats what he enjoyed most" he was a lot more fizzy
.
Hmmm not sure how else to help maybe get a feed supplement to increase energy? :S
 
Oh grow up OP :rolleyes: so my horse who had arthritis so I didn't jump him makes him lazy does it :rolleyes:

Honestly take a look at what your writing and think rather than trying to take the heat iff the fact that you have asked for opinions, people have given you then and the majority aren't what you want to hear ;)

Honestly talk about acting your shoe size rather than the age you profess to be :rolleyes:

Bored now :D
 
Horses are the result of how they are trained. They have no concept of being lazy as that is a human feeling.

Other issues such as poor training, poor riding, lack of responsiveness, incorrect diet, stale and bored in their work are more likely factors.
 
The trouble with words like lazy is they mean the horse is making a conscious decision not to go.
This may be the case for a few but to assume this, stops us looking for reasons why a horse might be reluctant to go. Such as a physical reason, our riding, it's motivation etc. etc. etc.
 
My mare was 'lazy', it was initially due to her fitness level and poor nutrition, then it was down to mistakes I was making in our flat work. Fitness work and a diet overhaul (still low sugar and starch but better vit and min nutrition) topped off with some 'tuning up' with help from an excellent instructor and she is a whizzy miss now! She isn't so stupid that she will give her all if I don't ask properly though, and her enthusiasm about what she is being asked to do is clearly reflected in her forwards-ness. So we have hard work dressage with whizzy sj and bouncy hacking! I wouldn't describe her as lazy at all now!

If he is off your leg but sane then thank your lucky stars you have such a super boy!
 
I have not read all they other thread but feel that yes they should be willing to work and go forward but you cannot completely change their natural character. Most horses have limitations either on ability or enthusiasm and to force them beyond or out of their comfort zone is not going to be a success in the long term.
If you want something very forward and fizzy, get one that finds that easy rather than forcing it on a laid back happy chap.
There is a suitable horse for everyone so I would sell and move on.
 
I think there's a difference between being lazy & being a plod. To me a plod is something that is working but goes steady, lazy is just when they can't be arsed.

I have a cob that is steady. He has days when he tries to be lazy. There's a difference.

Just to add because I didn't read your other post, to help with the steadiness we have him on winergy equilibrium medium or high energy feed which gives him a bit more of an edge. He is very fit, still steady! xx
 
You worded your other post wrongly I tale fizzy to mean just that. I insist all horses are working towards being on the aids and thus not lazy, buy beingaid back is not lazy, and being fizzy isn't on the aids.
 
Black Beastie said:
Oh grow up OP :rolleyes: so my horse who had arthritis so I didn't jump him makes him lazy does it :rolleyes:
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OP said if there was no good reason for the horse not doing something - if your horse had arthritis and couldn't jump, then it would have been foolish to try to make him jump and quite probably causing him pain by doing so.

But OPs horse is young, and from what I gather, quite a healthy happy chappy. Personally I would want him looking a bit less tubby - which OP had mentioned on the other post - and slight tubbyness could be contributing to lack of "go" that the OP is talking about.

OP - I know where you are coming from, my mare can be similar and I sometimes wonder if she has enough "excitement" for me. But I have spent the last several weeks getting her really steadily fit, and she is (for once) looking a really good weight and has never looked so well. I would keep on with the fittening of your lovely youngster, and work on getting him more responsive, which will go towards the ride I *think* you are looking to get. and if all else fails, find some absolute nutters to ride out with, let their nutty horses wind your boy up for a couple of rides, and then sit back and watch them struggle with the nuttiness :D. I jest of course.

:D
 
I remember a conversation with a fellow livery (when I was on livery), where my companion said her horse hit 5 and decided not move, with a passion, just to completely ignore all leg aids etc. Instinctively my response was "If Fergs tries that, he'll find my spurs dug into his ribs until he decides to do otherwise. I will tolerate any form of response to an aid, but ignoring it entirely is not acceptable." The look of horror she gave me was priceless. She wasn't a fluffy bunny, by any means, but it was the vitriole with which I said it I think.

Obviously, that comes with the proviso of no physical reason for horse being a knob - just testing the boundaries / trying to evade work. But I do think it gives my opinion on whether it's acceptable for horses to be lazy :D
 
I think that there is a difference between a horse that it obedient to your aids and will maintain the pace you ask for, which is how you describe your cob, and a 'fizzy' horse, which I take as one who is constantly having to be restrianed at a slower pace to which he would prefer to be going at - which might be fun to ride in some situations, but is also likely to have subsequent schooling problems such as rushing.

Your horses obedience and fitness can both be worked on to stop him possibly getting behind your aids - for example breaking pace in un-asked for downward transitions. Likewise you can work on sharpening up his upward transitions.

I don't think you can actually change his nature significantly and make him 'fizzy' though. Maybe just more sharper and more obedient?

My horse is very laid back by nature, and I had prefered something 'fizzier' but I do appreciate that his nature does make him very easy to work with, in terms of hunting, new places, stressful situations etc..he is laid back enough to make these all fun rather than challenging. So rather than get my adrenaline rush by just riding him, I get it from doing more different things. I also appreciate that the fact that he categorically will not believe that his legs can go faster then his own inbuilt rhythm allows makes it easaier to maintain a good rhythm for dressage, and makes introducing medium work easier (no rushing possible!).

Things that I have found that worked in making him more forward (but never 'fizzy') have been hunting and lots of fast gallopy fun, working on transitions in the school and on hacks (halt to trot, walk to canter etc..), backing up any ignored leg aids imediately, and also a good variety of work to minimise boredom.

Fitness and weight also play a large part for my horse, and possibly most importantly temperature - he can get very 'flat' when it is hot, or when un-clipped in mild weather.
 
Black Beastie said:
Oh grow up OP :rolleyes: so my horse who had arthritis so I didn't jump him makes him lazy does it :rolleyes:

Honestly take a look at what your writing and think rather than trying to take the heat iff the fact that you have asked for opinions, people have given you then and the majority aren't what you want to hear ;)

Honestly talk about acting your shoe size rather than the age you profess to be :rolleyes:

Bored now :D
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Where has the OP said that not jumping a horse makes it lazy?!?! I think you've taken the post the wrong way.

Agree with whoever said that the differnece here is being confused between ploddiness and laziness - that's what the OP is asking about, i think.
 
Can't stand riding lazy plods with a half hearted walk and trot etc

Obviously every horse/pony has it's own pace/gait, some have longer strides, some have short choppy ones, but you can still have an active walk with either. I do also think age comes into it, young horses and older horse will differ with their paces due to schooling/experience and age/mobility.

But for an average horse or pony that has no excuse, then it's usually down the to rider letting them amble along (or previous riders) or there just simply unfit and 9/10 most of these cobby types (for example) that are tarred with teh same old bush as being lazy and lacking sparkle is purely because they lack fitness and general well being, a happy horse is one that enjoys it's work and steps out not ambles along.
 
Black beastie, I fail to see the relevance of your post? Your horse is not lazy (we've already established that, lucky you) and therefore you don't need to deal with a lazy horse. At no point did I mention his jumping? In my other thread I asked "how to", although you were clearly more than happy to give your opinion on it's immoral nature. THIS thread is 'Is it fair to.....'

Whilst I agree that schooling etc affects their ABILITY to go forwards, some horses just aren't naturally forward going and lack DESIRE . Pips will do as he's asked (he's very obedient) but as a little as he thinks he can get away with. The second you stop insisting, he gives up. Many horses will do as little effort as they think they can. That's what I would call 'lazy'. Call it 'steady' if you prefer.

Lucyad: is that the lovely Oscar? I suspect he has a similar temperament to Piper, although poss a bit less 'lazy'. I'm guessing you really had to get after him initially to make him 'responsive/forwards ?(or whatever you wish to call it). Piper's the same, but is it FAIR to nag like that? Some people obviously feel not!?
 
Define steady compared to lazy?

You feel it's wrong to insist he really walks out when hacking? What he WANTS to do is amble along at a plod, but I don't let him. When he trots, I insist it's an active trot, although he'd much prefer to bimble along on his forehand.

It's therefore a matter of opinion about whether i'm wrong to insist. That's fair enough and the reason I ask. Most people I know feel they should be made to stride out, regardless of what the horse would speeds.

Plus his preference for ambling makes it that little bit harder to get him fit, and it becomes a vicious cycle.
 
Kallibear said:
The second you stop insisting, he gives up.
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Ahh, I'm a big believer in the idea that a horse should continue at the pace you asked for until you say otherwise, within reason. So you should never need to nag, or insist. That is a schooling matter and can be sorted - and should be sorted, in my opinion.
 
I insist on a forwards wall but nit rushing, implosion, leg to hand, I our my leg on and he goes, my con is steady, too slow across country but cracking at dressage. To me lazy would be I'd he refused to walk out which he does with other riders. I think we have become bogged down with each others use of terms! I dislike fizzy horses, I dislike sharp horses.
 
LEC said:
Horses are the result of how they are trained. They have no concept of being lazy as that is a human feeling.

Other issues such as poor training, poor riding, lack of responsiveness, incorrect diet, stale and bored in their work are more likely factors.
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^^^^^^^^

I agree
 
Well lets just say that my attitude is the same as JFTD's in her first post, we were chatting about it the other day and I will increase the aid untill he moves off of it even if that means shouting and using my spurs at the same time funnily enough the next time he is a lot more responsive :cool:. He is also naturally lazy and is rather keen to question every thing you ask of him so I do insist that he moves off when I say.
 
TicTac said:
^^^^^^^^

I agree
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I disagree. My horse has had plenty of schooling and knows exactly what she is meant to do but she makes you work damn hard to get there! She is quick off the leg and responsive on transitions, but she is very hard to work from leg to hand and round down. She can and will do it with plenty of sweat and tears. I thought it was my riding (which I'm sure sometimes it is) but she has had other much more experienced riders on her and they struggle too.
 
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