WWYD? Feeling deflated

Hormonal Filly

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I’ve come home from riding feeling so deflated.. wanted to ask forum members what they’d do. Please be completely honest even if it hurts. I apologise in advance for the long post!

As some know, my little 10yr old 14.2 cob was diagnosed with neck arthritis in C6/7 in December, graded 4/5 for 5 being the worst possible and had it medicated. He also has the start of arthritis in his hocks (has those injected too) 6 months ago but wasn’t insured (previously claimed) so I used savings to fund it. I’ve owned him 5 years and he’s been my pride and joy. :-( He is the most fun, safest pony you’d ever meet.

I bought him back into work, we have tried a bit of everything since December. He’s so honest he’ll do it even if his leg was hanging off I’m sure. It’s still clear he’s very stiff, if anything worse as times gone on. We do daily carrot stretches, he struggles but does them after a few minutes and his neck always glunks.

He’s also on vitamin E (and joint sup and Boswellia) which isnt cheap, the vitamin E was a test me thinking he was lacking something not wanting to go forwards but to be honest can’t see that’s made tons of difference now. I think it’s all neck related.

Today we rode on the farm, only rode for 20 minutes just some cantering and trotting, with mostly walking. He is fit to a reasonable level but gets tired so quickly, sweaty and ‘puffs’ as i’d call it even though he’s walked for most of it and he barely done anything for his level of fitness. I can only assume he has to work harder as he hurts? (or could there be any other reason?) he’s worse than my other unfit horse. The right canter he’s so stiff he can go straight but ask for a turn and it’s so difficult for him, can only assume cantering and bending hurts.

My vet has basically said the steroids in necks tends to wear off quicker if it’s pain related than neurological (his is mostly pain they think, not many neurological signs) and there is little they can do now. Bute won’t touch it, if it’s that painful nothing will. :-( obviously it will get worse, they could re steroid inject but it would last a shorter time every time. He said without muscle (retired) it may get worse.

He’s a real sweet heart, a lovely chap who loves attention. I’m trying to find someone small to hack him out to keep him ticking over but not sure what to do or if that’s fair.

Maybe I’m being stupid? reading into it to much! should I push him through it as someone said? Most owners would push and keep going, but I just can’t do that. He dreads seeing his saddle or that’s the impression he gives me.

The livery yard mine are on isn’t cheap, rent includes facilities and stable.. let alone keeping one as a field ornament but the thought of putting him to sleep kills me. Someone on the yard said that’s a mad idea, he looks so healthy to look at and runs around the field like nothing is wrong. He gains weight just looking at grass so I’d have to be so careful.

My other gelding has started to come back into work, he’s willing to work and feels great.

Sat here in tears.. just feel at a dead end. I can’t tell if he’s in pain in the field eating grass? or does he feel fine? My previous horse was in pain everyday so she was put to sleep. If only they could speak to us.. :-(
(thank you to all who red to the end!)
 
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milliepops

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Honestly? I think in your position I'd struggle to make myself keep trying to ride him because I would have so many doubts in my mind about whether it was fair and whether he was hurting.

As you know I have one with arthritic changes in her neck which have resulted in neuro symptoms, hers also stems from an injury and her issues are currently slight so she would be a candidate for light hacking. But her overall demeanour has improved so much since we got the diagnosis and I retired her, it's clear to me that it would not be right to keep on riding her.
She had other physical things, she had a tendency to a squitty bum and ulcers and that has totally resolved with no treatment since retirement. I can only conclude that the stress and pain caused by trying to do what she was asked in her work was causing it. Mine is having no treatment at all and the vets told me that she wouldn't put herself in positions or situations that caused pain if left at liberty so I feel 100% certain she is comfortable in the field.

I'm shelling out a lot of money in livery for her but I need a buddy for my other horse so I would be paying for something to be in my second stable even if it wasn't her. Eventually I'll get something else to ride and I'm fortunate that she can retire to the field with my oldies. If I didn't have that option then I would be forced to have her PTS.

I think its time for a frank discussion with your vets about last-ditch treatment options, quality of life (yours as well as his) and so on just in case you're missing anything before making any decisions though. I'm really sorry that you're going through this :(
 

piglet2001

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I am really sorry but in your shoes I would PTS. It is meant to be fun and at the moment it does not sound fun for either you or him. If he was mine I would give him a week of being pampered and eating lots (provided he is not lami prone etc), spoil him and take some photos whilst he is looking well, before saying good bye. I personally don't give mine one last summer, the ground is hard which isn't nice for those suffering from arthritis, there are flys and it is hot.

I am so sorry you are in this situation, maybe have a frank discussion with you vet?

I hope this does not upset you, it is not intended to. Best of luck whatever you decide.
 

Hormonal Filly

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I am really sorry but in your shoes I would PTS. It is meant to be fun and at the moment it does not sound fun for either you or him. If he was mine I would give him a week of being pampered and eating lots (provided he is not lami prone etc), spoil him and take some photos whilst he is looking well, before saying good bye. I personally don't give mine one last summer, the ground is hard which isn't nice for those suffering from arthritis, there are flys and it is hot.

I am so sorry you are in this situation, maybe have a frank discussion with you vet?

I hope this does not upset you, it is not intended to. Best of luck whatever you decide.

Thank you both for your honest replies.

He is ‘footy’ and gets fat easily, he has fat pads at the moment (how it’s possible I have no idea, he’s on no grass and even my Welsh is thin!) so I’d have to be cautious with laminitis specially if he’s out of work. He hates the flies and the heat yet gets stiff when he’s in.

I would get so frowned upon by the entire yard for putting to sleep as to everyone else he seems so healthy and I’m sure they just think I’m stupid.
 

SEL

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I have one with advanced arthritis completely retired from riding, who is a companion until the time I make that call. He is incredibly stoic so it would be easy to keep working him, but my gut told me about 3 years ago he wasn't enjoying it.

Right now I think you know your pony doesn't want to be ridden, so your decision is whethe to retire or PTS. I'm really sorry xx
 

dixie

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I’m really sorry to hear this.
I’ve had the same with my horse about 4yrs ago now. The neck injections just didn’t work. I rode him for a little bit at first but he just wasn’t the same horse.
He’s been a field ornament ever since. He seems very happy but I can see he’s not right and he always rests his back legs in an awkward way and anyhow I can see he lame behind now too.
It’s a difficult call between PTS or not but at the moment he seems very jolly in himself and so I will keep a close eye on him. Luckily I’m on a yard to myself so don’t have yard politics to deal with.
In your case it sounds like you’ve done all you can for him and it doesn’t seem fair to push him on riding if he’s not comfortable but only you know him well and what’s best for him.
 

milliepops

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I would get so frowned upon by the entire yard for putting to sleep as to everyone else he seems so healthy and I’m sure they just think I’m stupid.

You might do, sadly sometimes people just can't grasp that there are things under the surface that you don't see unless you know a horse well. But your duty is to him, not to them. I mean that in a supportive way, I hope it comes across that way - I have no doubt that you will do the right thing whatever that is for his welfare.
 

Orchard14

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You say the vet said he may get worse being retired but that’s not a definite. If you are asking wwyd I would try turning away to retire and hope he can stay happy and pain free without medication. If he’s still not happy then I would do right by him and let him go. As much as it would hurt to do so, it’s more torturous to worry about him day after day so I’m of the opinion that pts is the easiest option emotionally. I wouldn’t want to be riding a horse that I knew wasn’t right. Echoing the above I’m very sorry you are faced with this. I notice you posted back in March with the same question and I think the responses here will be quite similar
 
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Pinkvboots

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I'm sorry it's a horrible position to be in but I think I would stop riding and see if he can retire and live out somewhere, if he becomes uncomfortable and really not coping then pts would be the only option but then at least you have given him the chance, as for the other liveries it's none of there business and they really shouldn't make you feel guilty about what you choose to do with your horse.
 

PapaverFollis

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If people on your yard think it's so horrible to consider PTS perhaps they'd like to pay all the bills for you? And can they take on the emotional labour of managing a good doer horse in retirement too?

If he's not enjoying work and not going to thrive in retirement then PTS is a legit option. Either that or a heavily managed retirement. And you don't have to do that to yourself. You've given him a caring home for 5 years and have explored the options for keeping him comfortable.

I think it would be worth retiring for a month say and see how he gets on but decide a checklist in advance of "happiness" criteria he has to meet and if he doesn't meet them during that month then make the call. For example he has to stay a reasonable weight and not look like laminitis waiting to happen as part of the "deal". I didn't think my old mare would be happy retired but retirement came on so gradually in the end neither of us really noticed and she did well. But she was still managed and spent on as if she was a ridden horse, in fact she got more expensive. If she hadn't passed away when she did we would have had to consider finances as well as quality of life. It's hard but they are big, expensive and hard work and you're allowed to consider your own needs too.
 

Pearlsasinger

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Well you certainly can't keep riding him. He is telling you that he is struggling with ridden work. Vet says that the pain is so great that bute won't touch it, so what will you do to keep him pain-free if you retire him. How will you know that he is in pain when he is at grass? You have already told us that he would do his best with his leg hanging off and horses instinctively don't show weakness so I'm not sure how you would judge his quality of life in retirement. If you want to give him one last go at trying a decent qol, I would talk to a vet who knows about acupuncture to see if that could make a difference but it might not.

I would pay more attention to the vet and the horse than to fellow liveries who don't seem to know much and certainly don't know your horse as well as you do.

and then there's your finances to consider but really I think you can justify pts on qol.
 

Goldenstar

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I think you need to listen to your vet and ignore the other livery’s .
If I where in your shoes I would give a decent dose of Bute or danilon and retire him and see how he reacts to that .
I had an old horse who was a former team level driving horse he was the most lovely horse a proper gent at eighteen I just felt he had gone off being driven it was nothing more than a feeling like you described.
He had various boney type issues he had done a huge amount of work in his life he came to me as a very mature horse .
As a first step I stopped driving him and he was happy being ridden I was careful with him that winter he hunted a little which amused him greatly he had danilon .
The summer I retired him and kept him on danilon for about eighteen months then he lost his sparkle again the others started being nasty to him in the field I had him PTS he looked great some people thought me harsh but I went on my feeling .
Don’t be afraid to do that .
You may find that he’s happy not worked with some pain relief but you will know if he’s not .
I appreciate this hard on a livery yard try to focus on him and ignore other people except your most trusted friends and the vet .
 

southerncomfort

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You may find leading himbout for a short walk each day is a happy medium I.e he gets enough exercise to loosen his joints and keep his weight down but he doesn't have to cope with the extra burden of a rider.

Regarding bute, have you actually tried giving a decent dose every day? I ask because sometimes just giving the odd dose here and there isn't as effective as giving a regular daily dose.
 

ycbm

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I would PTS. We owe our horses a good life and a good death. We don't, imo, owe them a retirement, and especially not a creaking old age with arthritis in the neck, where there is no way of knowing how much pain he is actually in.
 

ew0855

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I put my lovely little mare to sleep due to neck arthritis, 2 weeks earlier she'd done a pleasure ride, so I know how heart breaking it is when they look well to those who don't know them so well. Like your lad she was far too young. Death (in Witchy's case with a mouth full of grass, at home) is not a welfare issue. Hugs whatever you decide, but you sound like you already know that continuing as things are isn't fair.
 

Leo Walker

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I would have him PTS. Managing something thats a really good doer in retirement is nearly impossible and I wouldnt do it to him or you. Theres also the pain aspect to consider. I live in constant low grade pain. Its horrific and I wouldnt wish it on my worst enemy. You wouldnt know by looking at me, and horses hide things like this. If there is even a chance he is suffering then you need to do the right thing by him. Tell the yard busy bodies that its on vets orders and then ignore them. I had mine pts with laminitis when we had exhausted every avenue and his pedal bone was dropping through his sole. I still had utter morons making snide comments and saying ludicrous things, so I think you get it from some people regardless
 

Peter7917

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PTS for me, its hard to keep a lami prone good doer retired. You see too many with grazing muzzles, miserable, permanently on a strict low calorie lifestyle. That isn't retirement. Let the dear chap have a morning scoffing his face on the lushest grass you can find and then let him go.
 

Leandy

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Stop trying to work him. He is in pain and you have tried and failed to sort it out. If you cannot realistically afford to "retire" him and it sounds as though comfortable retirement for him will not be cheap and will be long term, please put him to sleep. I suggest you do it soon and get it over with for your sake. Then you can focus on putting your time and money into a horse which gives you pleasure and is itself happy. This is the absolute best you can do for him and yourself. Any knowledgeable horse owner knows this and will not criticise.
 

SpringArising

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PTS. I'm sorry to say this but I think you're being cruel at the moment.

There's no way I could continue to ride my horse knowing he was in pain. It sounds like you're struggling to accept the reality of the situation.

You need to do what's right for him. Death would be the kindest thing at this point.
 

Orchard14

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Please be kind to yourself, you aren't cruel for following veterinary advice assuming you were told it was OK to continue riding. But clearly he has deteriorated since and I think it's obvious to you that sadly his ridden career is over now. What you do next is up to you. Call your vet and have a very frank discussion about him and surround yourself with supportive friends and family.
 

BOWS28

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I'm afraid as he is such a good doer, retirement would likely be unsuccessful. Really, our horses owe us nothing. As a ycbm said, it is our job to give them a good life and a good death. If he was mine, as horrible as it seems, i would PTS. I have always said my horses will always go with dignity. My horses will go looking well and being happy. Go easy on yourself though OP, it will never get easier but it is your call x
 

Annagain

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I'm so sorry you're facing this. I feel for you. I'm facing the retirement decision too, albeit with a much older horse. I would try retirement but be prepared for it not to work.
 

Asha

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You are in a very difficult position, ignore the others at the livery yard ( easier said than done i know..)
My boy had neck arthritis and I would have loved to give him a retirement, but his prognosis was dire. Vets estimated that he would start to lose control of his legs within weeks. So I had him PTS straight away. I also have a retired oldie ( very good doer) , who struggled a little last year, but with some great tips off the forum shes loving life again. But, the minute she looks as though shes getting lami,i will PTS.
So in your shoes I would try to retire him off, and monitor him very closely. If/when he starts going down hill then id PTS
 

Fransurrey

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It's a tricky decision, but yours to make, not the other liveries. For the record, I have two lami prone good doers retired at the moment - they have a reasonably sized paddock with poor grazing and are fed hay to replace forage. I can feel ribs easily on one and see them on the old boy when he moves, but they're both reasonably happy. Having said that, neither have significant arthritic changes and I can manage my field as I please on livery. If you're not able to do that, you will indeed struggle.
 

Hormonal Filly

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Thank you all for taking the time to comment, some really helpful thoughtful ones so thank you. xx

I have already spoken to my vet but I am awaiting a call back from the specialist vet at the equine hospital (he specialists in internal medicine with lots of letters after his name) who was the vet to steriod inject his neck in December as this is 'his area' and he sees/medicates a lot of horses with neck issues, even horses that have gone to compete at the Olympics, and is the FEI vet for Badminton etc. I thought a chat with him would be worth the wait before calling it a day.

I feel like I am giving up on him.. if i can I'll retire him first and see how he gets on. Hes a good companion as happy on his own, so will see what the specialist says and then decide what to do from then.

I am already struggling with his weight in a bare paddock ridden and he was being ridden 3 times a week. He acts starving but hes chubby.. my other horse is looking slim so split them up to give him more grass.
 

Puzzled

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I would retire him. I would not continue to ride him with his level of problems - but I would retire him - he gave you 5 years of enjoyment, surely you can give him retirement while he is comfortbale? Unless he struggles in the field.
My thoughts exactly.
 
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