WWYD? Horses too used to galloping in the same place...

khalswitz

khalswitz

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I was out hacking the other day with my YO and one of our fellow liveries, J and P - with two of us working this hasn't happened in quite a long time. We took the horses up to the top wood, where there is a lovely long gallop track. My two friend's horses started getting silly and jogging as we approached, going sideways like crabs up Geoff's bum (which is bad news as he is a kicker... thankfully he behaved himself).

I asked if they wouldn't mind just walking - they were quite wound up, and maybe I'm too used to hacking alone but I didn't fancy a free-for-all, especially as my ex-racer would take it seriously... P was a bit grumpy about it, but both consented. We walked (Geoff walked, P and J's horses crabbed the whole way) to the end, and then on a different track where the ground was good but I know P and J don;t tend to canter, I asked if they fancied one there. We started to canter, P's horse getting very upset and bouncing around. I offered to trot, but she declined, saying she would let him 'get it out of his system'. I thought this meant lengthen out a bit (stress, not a gallop) so let the canter move forward a bit more. P didn't. This meant J's horse at the back getting very upset and taking off, whizzing past P and past Geoff and I... thank god he wasn't being his usual grumpy self as normally he would have double barrelled as they went past, thankfully I was quick and pushed his quarters round when I saw them in the corner of my eye.

After this, J and P were both a bit upset. Think P got a fright with how upset her horse was, and J was very frustrated that her 5 year old is learning such bad habits. J also told me that when she and P hack out regularly, they always say that they should walk/trot along there... and always end up galloping.

I'll be honest, I was going to leave them to it - I have no intention of letting my horse gallop where he likes, and if they are nervous and don't want to correct the issue, then I was just going to hack out on my own... however, Geoff then showed me that I have no reason to be high and mighty.

A few days ago, we rode up there, walked most of the way, had a lovely trot, and then feeling he was nice and relaxed and not anticipating I asked for canter. Then came racehorse, 0-60 in 0.5 seconds... stuck his head to the ground (can cope with him in usual giraffe position abut this was a new one!) and just RAN. Eventually got him back, but took about 400 yds to get back to a slow canter, let alone a stop. I wrote this off as him having had two days off, but then today, we hacked out with J, walked the whole way along that track except for the very last bit where we decided we would do a very collected hand canter, just to prove a point. Well, he bounced, he changed legs, he lengthened and shortened strides on a stride, trying anything to bet out of my control. I called to J and told her to come back to trot, as I was really struggling to hold him, but her horse was being quite strong, so got a bit close as I was bringing Geoff back. Buck, buck, buck, head to the floor... I did stop him, but he almost had me.

So now am in a conundrum. I have tried very hard to make sure he knows we don't canter along there - we trot, we walk, we go whichever pace I ask for. In the walk and trot, he's perfect. I've had trouble there in the canter. The other two can't even walk along there! However, they always hack in company whereas I hack alone a lot...

So, any advice on how to deal? I advised J and P to do lots of walking and trotting along there to stop them associating it with a gallop. However my lad is perfect in walk and trot, just think canter means a hooley (and he is not like that anywhere else, normally in canter I just put him in gear and he floats along, just that one track) - so what do you advise for him?

And big question - should I avoid hacking out with J and P along there? Am I better getting my own horse sorted and not encouraging him to start getting riled up like they do?Or should I be helping them try and get their horses settled? But then with what Geoff has thrown at me the last two days I no longer feel like I can comment... I don't really know...

Minstrels and tea for any who read, and any advice appreciated.
 
I'd stop hacking with them on that route. Concentrate on your horse and not their troubles! If they want to gallop at that point every time then let them!

I'd go alone a few times around that route and do lots of changing gear, reminding your horse that you will say when you can go or not! I'd also put in a stronger bit, just to have that little more pull back and say 'oi listen to me up here!!!' Get your horse settled on that route again before attempting it with anyone else!
 
i would avoid hacking with the two fidgets until you've got this out of his head tbh them prancing around isn't going to help the situation and as you said before they were quite lucky they didn't get double barrelled when they overtook. - i'd keep at what you are doing although just keep to walk and trot if he's fine with that until its completely out of his head that you cantered down there once although you then maybe back to square one again if you do decide to canter down there again - perhaps trot for a bit then into canter for a few strides and back to trot again so he doesn't have a chance to get away from you?

but i completely agree cannot stand riding a horse that things it knows where it canters every time or riding with people on those horses for that matter! i quite like riding on my own! :P
 
I always am working on a balance between making sure I don't always canter in the same place and cantering enough so it's the no longer most exciting thing in the world.

Keep riding in that spot, at all gaits. And don't go there with anyone else who's horse is going to just take off.
 
I had a horse that was really good on the roads but the minute her feet touched grass she became a complete lunatic nightmare -sideways, jogging, blast off at full speed. This is what happens if you don't insist on good manners from the beginning. I spent the next year walking and trotting only.
 
Thanks, everyone - I think I kind of knew I would have to just hack alone there for a while to settle him again! He is normally so good, and the one lovely thing about him was he listened to what I wanted to do, not what he wanted to do. So I want to nip this in the bud.

Looks like the same thing my DR instructor keeps telling me... transitions, transitions, transitions!! Geoff is too opinionated as it is to start thinking he calls the shots on pace...
 
Can I just say..... I think that Geoff has to be one of the best names ever for a horse! It's up there with Brian and Adam in my book!
 
TandD said:
Can I just say..... I think that Geoff has to be one of the best names ever for a horse! It's up there with Brian and Adam in my book!
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Haha, thanks :)I got him from a rescue that I used to work for, and he was named that until they got his passport, but it sort of stuck... he's a character, right enough! Half the time he'd like a grumpy old man, the other half like one of those teenage girls that gets so excited she hyperventilates. But he is a proper dominant horse, and if he could get away with anything he would... hence why I want to stop this now!
 
Mmm, seems to me like you need to hack out with some different riding companions TBH as these lot are not helping either your confidence or your horse's manners one jot. Yes you may be good friends back at the yard and get along fine, and naturally you don't want to miff them........ but think at the moment you've got no other option than to ditch them, for now, if not longer term also.

Think you and horse just need to rewind a bit and take things a little less at hooley pace; by that I would suggest that you avoid this particular place for a while anyway, and instead concentrate on perhaps some school and/or ground work as your horse clearly, from his background, thinks that the moment everyone else goes off at the canter, that means he's under starters orders and hey away we go!!! And you can't blame him for this, its the way he's been trained.

Personally I'd ask an expert/professional to give you some advice as to what you could do, primarily in the school, to get him listening to you. Perhaps you also need to think about bitting, but I would make this a part of your consulting exercise with your professional. A good exercise to do in a safe environment like a school is, after the groundwork/schooling exercises to get him thoroughly listening, and ONLY when he (and you) are ready....... is to start playing "games" like passing other horses in the school, i.e. work with one or at the most two other horses in the school with you, and they come up behind you and then pass you (at safe distance) and go to the front of the ride, then you overtake and go to the front, and so on and so forth. You then progress up the paces to trot, and if he starts hotting up you go back to walking, ditto canter, if he's fizzy then you go back a pace. If he is silly, you can introduce some trotting poles which will make him think what he's doing with his feet and give him something else to concentrate on.

Then..... when he's ready, and you've done a bit of solo hacking as well as your school work....... and ONLY when you're both ready, pick a good steady horse and a sensible rider to go alongside you for a nice steady hack (its a pity you're not in this area?? as either of my two are brill at being nannies like this), going no faster than trot to start with, then very slowly building up to perhaps an occasional canter for a few strides and then "asking" him to come back to your hand (sorry, meant to say you need to also do this in the school first so he gets used to "answering" to you).

But I'd deffo avoid doing what you're doing at the moment, unless you want to (a) end up with a thoroughly mannerless hooley of a horse and/or (2) land yourself in A&E.
 
I've never had a problem with this - my horses happy to go at any pace I decide. I've always done my fast work in the same place. But if i want to walk it instead, we walk with no problem.

Hacking in company can present problems however. And I think if your horse is prone to getting wound up then you need to choose your hacking partner carefully.

Two horses hacking out together can work really well. Three can cause a problem in situation as you describe above (as you've discovered).
 
MiJodsR2BlinkinTite said:
Mmm, seems to me like you need to hack out with some different riding companions TBH as these lot are not helping either your confidence or your horse's manners one jot. Yes you may be good friends back at the yard and get along fine, and naturally you don't want to miff them........ but think at the moment you've got no other option than to ditch them, for now, if not longer term also.

Think you and horse just need to rewind a bit and take things a little less at hooley pace; by that I would suggest that you avoid this particular place for a while anyway, and instead concentrate on perhaps some school and/or ground work as your horse clearly, from his background, thinks that the moment everyone else goes off at the canter, that means he's under starters orders and hey away we go!!! And you can't blame him for this, its the way he's been trained.

Personally I'd ask an expert/professional to give you some advice as to what you could do, primarily in the school, to get him listening to you. Perhaps you also need to think about bitting, but I would make this a part of your consulting exercise with your professional. A good exercise to do in a safe environment like a school is, after the groundwork/schooling exercises to get him thoroughly listening, and ONLY when he (and you) are ready....... is to start playing "games" like passing other horses in the school, i.e. work with one or at the most two other horses in the school with you, and they come up behind you and then pass you (at safe distance) and go to the front of the ride, then you overtake and go to the front, and so on and so forth. You then progress up the paces to trot, and if he starts hotting up you go back to walking, ditto canter, if he's fizzy then you go back a pace. If he is silly, you can introduce some trotting poles which will make him think what he's doing with his feet and give him something else to concentrate on.

Then..... when he's ready, and you've done a bit of solo hacking as well as your school work....... and ONLY when you're both ready, pick a good steady horse and a sensible rider to go alongside you for a nice steady hack (its a pity you're not in this area?? as either of my two are brill at being nannies like this), going no faster than trot to start with, then very slowly building up to perhaps an occasional canter for a few strides and then "asking" him to come back to your hand (sorry, meant to say you need to also do this in the school first so he gets used to "answering" to you).

But I'd deffo avoid doing what you're doing at the moment, unless you want to (a) end up with a thoroughly mannerless hooley of a horse and/or (2) land yourself in A&E.
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Ah, you've caught us out... we are AWFUL with anyone else in the school. I'm the only one who uses the school at our yard, so he is constantly working alone, which drives me nuts as when we go out for group lessons or compete he is a nightmare - our very first group lesson he bronked me off when another horse passed us. Warmup arenas are our nemesis... last time we went to do dressage, he was so good in the ring, but had a bucking fit with another horse tried to canter behind us. We are working on it - lots of group lessons etc, but I don't have anyone to school with at home, and unfortunately no quiet horse to hack with either!

Like I said, his manners are normally perfect out hacking, we've put in a lot of hours of solo hacking - this is the only time I've had this problem with him, hacking is normally his strong point. At home, schooling, he is also great - taken a lot of work but our downwards transitions are all off the seat and leg, if still working on sharpness. He's been very hard work over the last year but is really coming on - out competing and dealing with strange horses has been his tricky thing over the last few months. Hence why this behaviour out hacking is irritating, it's the last place I expect naughty behaviour.

We've experimented a lot with bits, but he gets very upset when ridden in anything with poll pressure/curb chain etc and the extra control results in going up, one end or the other. So we're back to snaffles.
 
amymay said:
I've never had a problem with this - my horses happy to go at any pace I decide. I've always done my fast work in the same place. But if i want to walk it instead, we walk with no problem.

Hacking in company can present problems however. And I think if your horse is prone to getting wound up then you need to choose your hacking partner carefully.

Two horses hacking out together can work really well. Three can cause a problem in situation as you describe above (as you've discovered).
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I'm a bit limited in who I can hack with - there is only the three of us at our yard. Hence why I hack alone so much. Normally, his manners are impeccable when hacking, but I never trust a horse 100% and I felt like the other day really relied on him behaving himself, or it would have been really bad. And Geoff will walk or trot along there no problem as I do make him do that regularly - it was just asking for a canter and holding it in the hand that seemed to trigger him getting very grumpy.

I'm probably also less relaxed in company, which won't help - bad habits from working in a trekking centre, I feel like we have to look after everyone else, and that will put pressure on him as well I guess. Plus with J on her spooky 5 yo, I do try to look after her. Hacking alone is much less stressful...
 
amymay said:
3 horses = exciting, not naughty.
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You know what? I never looked at it like that. Isn't that stupid? And that makes sense with how best to approach it, too... make it less exciting. No cantering in groups for now, and lots of transitions along that track on our own in the meantime until it's not so exciting...
 
When I have been in places where I canter in groups regularly, my horse is a sensible, solid citizen and can be first, in the middle, or last.

When I have been in places where I canter in groups rarely, if ever, and then I canter in a group, she's wild and it can be pretty exciting. Not in necessarily a good way.

Familiarity is key. If it's something they do routinely, it ain't that exciting. I also recommend long uphill canter/gallop stretches, if available.
 
Caol Ila said:
When I have been in places where I canter in groups regularly, my horse is a sensible, solid citizen and can be first, in the middle, or last.

When I have been in places where I canter in groups rarely, if ever, and then I canter in a group, she's wild and it can be pretty exciting. Not in necessarily a good way.

Familiarity is key. If it's something they do routinely, it ain't that exciting. I also recommend long uphill canter/gallop stretches, if available.
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Yeah, we used to hack out in company a lot, but since my work schedule changed four months ago we haven't very often, and certainly haven't hacked out with more than 2 in months. So that probably explains it. Also when I first got him we hacked front or back happily, it's only been since his personality transplant in June that he's been a pest (we diagnosed his PSSM, sorted his feed, he gained half his bodyweight and went from a donkey to a firework!) and I'd assumed it was part of the fitness and waking up, but could also be because we've just hacked out alone so much.

Hills we can certainly do. We live between Aberdeen and Braemar, plenty of hills :) and hillwork is part of our fitness routine anyway, so maybe we need to plan any future group cantering for a nice long uphill...
 
or in our book 3horses=RACE. Fortunately since Bobthe nota cob has learned that everyone ,and I do meen everyone including the yard ponies ,are faster than him,he doesnt try too hard. A brief bounce around at the bottom of"middle hill" and a fast getaway ,straight into a rather plodding canter. Its rather sad really!
 
Mike007 said:
or in our book 3horses=RACE. Fortunately since Bobthe nota cob has learned that everyone ,and I do meen everyone including the yard ponies ,are faster than him,he doesnt try too hard. A brief bounce around at the bottom of"middle hill" and a fast getaway ,straight into a rather plodding canter. Its rather sad really!
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Oh bless him xxx
 
Yes ,he does like to be the Macho lead the way ,head of the hack and when it comes to a canter,you can see it on his face ,|Ungratefull bitches.
 
Caol Ila said:
Lucky you. I wish I lived halfway between Aberdeen and Braemar. That's a nice bit of the country.
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It's great until it snows :p

Mike - bless! Unfortunately Geoff knows he is the fastest... and therefore gets very upset if anyone overtakes him etc. He's also very tricky to canter behind, but I do make him do it just for practice.
 
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