WWYD -Livery Issues

[brighteyes]

Also, a neighbour had the cheek to do this to me. 'Can my horse stay for max 2 weeks, maybe 3?'

Proceeds to pretty much do her own thing (or not do it) default on payment, yell at me like I shouldn't care I am being taken for a mug and a credit facility. Finally got shut and she brazen as anything does it to the next person stupid enough to take her on. She has met her match at livery number 4 in this area...

 

[sharni]

has the horse gone yet ?

 

[dorsetladette]

has the horse gone yet ?

Nope - just keep getting messages to say she's got to check the fencing (which she was apparently building) or check with the landowner. And the hay bill is going up daily. Frustrated is an understatement, OH is adamant its going on a tether.

Abandonment notice has been up on both gates and the style we use for access since Thursday evening, but I don't think she has been as I haven't had any call or text about it.

 

[Dexter]

Nope - just keep getting messages to say she's got to check the fencing (which she was apparently building) or check with the landowner. And the hay bill is going up daily. Frustrated is an understatement, OH is adamant its going on a tether.

Abandonment notice has been up on both gates and the style we use for access since Thursday evening, but I don't think she has been as I haven't had any call or text about it.

I'd send her a coirtesy message explaining this and that the pony will be sold on x date

 

[jnb]

Take a copy of the abandonment notice and shove through her letterbox, and email/Facebook message / post it on her Facebook wall.
Cheeky cow!

 

[WandaMare]

Does she work? If she does, I would be tempted to leave a message there for her, might prompt her to get it sorted.

 

[Regandal]

Take a pic of the notice on your phone and send it to her.

 

[Widgeon]

Regarding the fence trashing, is there any possibility you could tether the pony like travellers do, and move it around the land regularly? I know it's not ideal for lots of reasons but at least it would keep it off the fences....depends how desperate you are I suppose!

 

[dorsetladette]

Yeah she works. On the days she works she doesn't come to see the horse. Her usual days off are Monday and Tuesday so we will see what happens today.

She lives about 25 miles away from the field - should of clicked when she told me wear she lived that it was a long way to travel for essentially a field with no facilities. The drive is horrible too. How many yards/fields must she pass to get to me.

This selling the horse thing - I just get a horrible sinking feeling at the thought of it. I haven't got the backbone/front/face/whatever you call it to do it or even threaten it as I would have to follow it though when it doesn't get the reaction I want. Soft I know, its causing so much friction between me and OH. I wish I'd never bothered.

 

[dorsetladette]

Regarding the fence trashing, is there any possibility you could tether the pony like travellers do, and move it around the land regularly? I know it's not ideal for lots of reasons but at least it would keep it off the fences....depends how desperate you are I suppose!

OH has sourced a peg and chain to do just that. but I'm worried she'll hurt herself so am stalling. If OH knew how bad the fence trashing was he would hit the roof.

 

[meleeka]

Yeah she works. On the days she works she doesn't come to see the horse. Her usual days off are Monday and Tuesday so we will see what happens today.

She lives about 25 miles away from the field - should of clicked when she told me wear she lived that it was a long way to travel for essentially a field with no facilities. The drive is horrible too. How many yards/fields must she pass to get to me.

This selling the horse thing - I just get a horrible sinking feeling at the thought of it. I haven't got the backbone/front/face/whatever you call it to do it or even threaten it as I would have to follow it though when it doesn't get the reaction I want. Soft I know, its causing so much friction between me and OH. I wish I'd never bothered.

I think you need to make her aware that as per the notice, the pony will become your property on x date and will be sold to cover costs. You definitely need to do it if the date comes and goes with no explanation. I think you’ll find if you advertise it for say £100 and say needs to go this week, you’ll have a queue of people wanting it. Not fair on the horse I know, but it’s really not your problem. If you get to that point the advert might get some response from her.

 

[sharni]

Take photo of abandonment notices with , if possible a dated newspaper to prove the date you put the notices up. if/when you dispose of the horse --maybe via auction-- you can then prove that you have followed the law.

 

[Mule]

OH has sourced a peg and chain to do just that. but I'm worried she'll hurt herself so am stalling. If OH knew how bad the fence trashing was he would hit the roof.

She'll get used to it fairly quickly. The travellers tether their horses and they are no worse for it. Just leave her with grazing and water.

 

[dorsetladette]

She'll get used to it fairly quickly. The travellers tether their horses and they are no worse for it. Just leave her with grazing and water.

Do they not get tangled in the chain? I could put her in a corner and electric fence round her so mine don't get in the way. I've heard horror stories of ponies slipping and breaking their necks and getting tangled in chains.

 

[cauda equina]

Does a horse owner actually need to see an abandonment notice for the landowner to take action legally?
Because if they really have abandonded the horse they are never going to see it
I assumed it was the landowner putting it up that was the important bit, whether or not anyone sees it

 

[jnb]

Message her with a photo of it tethered on the chain and stake - I have tethered horses in the past and as long as the chain is heavy enough, they quickly learn to flick it forward and graze up to it then move it and graze on.
Tell her she has until Thursday per abandonment notice or you will deposit it on the tether, in the pub (her work) car park or on a suitable grass verge and inform the police that it is her responsibility if they get any complaints about it.
Is this honestly worth one of your own horses getting onto the road or your relationship breaking up?You have to put your own horses first!

 

[Mule]

Do they not get tangled in the chain? I could put her in a corner and electric fence round her so mine don't get in the way. I've heard horror stories of ponies slipping and breaking their necks and getting tangled in chains.

Unless she is the panicky type she will be able to navigate it fine.

 

[luckyoldme]

God how frustrating. Ive only ever known one owner as bad as this..but every area has one .
The yo in that case gave her a specific time and date to remove the horse or it would be delivered to her garden. She picked the horse up herself a day before the given date..sticking her fingers up at us on the way out.
How silly of us to make sure her horse had water and (our) hay.

 

[dorsetladette]

Unless she is the panicky type she will be able to navigate it fine.

No definitely not panicky. She an arrogant pig headed type.

 

[9tails]

I think you're far too soft on this owner and you're wishy washy. That's why you still have this pony on your land. Send her a copy of the abandonment notice now, however you can through Facebook, WhatsApp etc. Don't wait for her to turn up, you want the pony off your property rather than gaining it by stealth. Your OH is right, tether her before she wrecks your fences even further.

Even though her new place isn't ready (doubt there is one) she needs to move elsewhere. Even if it's full livery, she needs to be gone NOW.

 

[dorsetladette]

God how frustrating. Ive only ever known one owner as bad as this..but every area has one .
The yo in that case gave her a specific time and date to remove the horse or it would be delivered to her garden. She picked the horse up herself a day before the given date..sticking her fingers up at us on the way out.
How silly of us to make sure her horse had water and (our) hay.

I think the hay is OH biggest bug bare. Hay is in short supply round here and I paid a lot more for it this year than last. I've been pulling 10 bales at a time out of the barn and asking her for £15 contribution each time. As yet I haven't had a penny. September saw us use 20 bales (plus a few broken ones)

I think she gets paid today, so I reckon we should see movement this week.

She's been furloughed (back in work now) and hubby walked out of his job the week before lock down so I get that money has been tight, but she turns up with new riding hats and boots etc, so it can't be that bad can it really.

 

[dorsetladette]

I think you're far too soft on this owner and you're wishy washy. That's why you still have this pony on your land. Send her a copy of the abandonment notice now, however you can through Facebook, WhatsApp etc. Don't wait for her to turn up, you want the pony off your property rather than gaining it by stealth. Your OH is right, tether her before she wrecks your fences even further.

Even though her new place isn't ready (doubt there is one) she needs to move elsewhere. Even if it's full livery, she needs to be gone NOW.

Yep totally get that - I have been soft. I didn't really want to put the abandonment notice up in all honesty. I've taken some advise from a friend who has run a local livery yard for about 15years. Its low end and low price, so she has seen more than her fair share of problems. She tore me a new ******.

Please don't ever tell my OH he is right!!! LOL my concern about tethering is simply that the mare will get hurt and I will end up with a vet bill. Where would I stand legally if the mare got hurt after I had tethered her?

 

[jnb]

No idea where you'd legally stand, but the owner doesn't care where YOU legally stand when she's cost you £££ for fencing/feed/possible injury of your horses.....
I mean, if she CBA to respond to your legal requests to remove the horse due to unpaid bills, I doubt she will legally persue you if her horse is injured due to HER neglect...

 

[sport horse]

If she does not take the horse, once the abandonment notice expires see if you can sell it very cheaply to a local dealer. That way you might get enough to cover your hay bill.

 

[emilylou]

If she does not take the horse, once the abandonment notice expires see if you can sell it very cheaply to a local dealer. That way you might get enough to cover your hay bill.

This is what I would do, then there is a clear paper trail (a good dealer will give this) and a contact for the owner to get in contact with the dealer in the unlikely event she should wish to buy her horse back.

 

[Ossy2]

Feel for you OP, make sure you send a copy of the abandoned notice to the owner and make sure your using the template for when the owner is actually known.
just my own interest can anyone tell me if the livery owner is still receiving livery payments can they still issue an abandonment notice. I get here the owner hasn’t paid hay money so is out of pocket but is still receiving basic livery all be it late or sporadic does that then actually meet the definition of abandonment? Depending what the opinions of the above is I would have been inclined to give owner a last and final termination date of the livery contract take no money from then on and then serve the abandonment notice when the horse is not removed by that date. At the moment if I was owner I’d technically argue that you have agreed to the extensions as you’re receiving some kind of payment for it.

 

[FinnishLapphund]

Does a horse owner actually need to see an abandonment notice for the landowner to take action legally?
Because if they really have abandonded the horse they are never going to see it
I assumed it was the landowner putting it up that was the important bit, whether or not anyone sees it

According to what I've read (on this page https://www.bhs.org.uk/advice-and-information/the-law/abandonment-and-fly-grazing), I would say that the answer depends on whether you know who the owner is or not.

If you don't know who the owner is, posting the notice where the horse is, preferably taking a picture of the notice showing the day's date, should be enough. Since a responsible owner of a horse (who is not on full livery, or i.e. an Exmoor pony in Exmoor National Park) should have checked their horse at least once per day.

However if you do know who the owner is, you also have to serve a notice to them. But as far as I know, even in those cases there is nothing that says anything about that you have to know that the owner have actually read the notice they've received.

 

[Polos Mum]

OP I would get your for sale advert live (or if you CBA recovering fencing / hay money) your 'free to the first to collect' after X time on Y date. The abandonment is only 96 hours and YOU don't have to prove she has seen the notices.

She could carry on with this stalling for weeks and weeks.

I would also contact your local police - with the standard form on the BHS website - so they know you are following the legal process.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I would also contact your local police - with the standard form on the BHS website - so they know you are following the legal process.

Yes, this one. Serve the abandonment notice by the book.

 

[dorsetladette]

My notice states 4 working days (so not including sat/sun) and the period ends on wednesday evening. Does that mean I've given her extra time or the notice isn't correct?

I will email a copy of the notice to the local police just in case.

I have the neighbours on watch to message me if the see her car pull up. I only work 5 mins away from the horses, so I'll shoot straight there and speak to her face to face.