WWYD, nappy horse out hacking

[JennBags]

I've had Nelson for 4.5 years now. Every time we've got going something's put riding on pause so in that time I've not had him in consistent work very often. A year ago I seriously considered selling him as I wasn't sure I enjoyed riding him, but he got a reprieve again, had most of the winter off (again!), and I started him back up in the spring. I have no facilities so hacking is my main activity although I did start going out for weekly flatwork lessons until I smashed the side of the lorry in, and that's currently away being repaired (back next week). So hacking it is and this is where my dilemma comes in.

I don't think he enjoys hacking. He's nappy as hell, and it's getting worse, not better. He plants and just doesn't go forward. I can get him moving on, but it's like wading through treacle and I spend the whole ride pushing him forwards. He's quite happy to move up into trot or canter, but they're both also very slow. He's like this on his own or with others, albeit slightly less nappy in company, he's still slow. He's had everything checked (back, tack, teeth) and the saddle fitter is due out again for another check soon.

He is, however, absolutely brilliant as he's not fazed by traffic or much really. We had big bin lorries this morning, he'll just stand quietly and wait for them to go by. We can go into grassy open spaces and he's polite and waits for me to tell him to move forward or slow down. His spooks are minimal. He's got lovely paces although green even though he's 11 as I've not done much schooling with him, and he's got a really nice pop in him although he'll never be a world beater.

So lovely HHOers, what would you do in my position? Any ideas for how to get him forward and enjoying his backing or do I give him up as a lost cause for me?

Photo of us out on a hunt ride in the first year I had him

https://flic.kr/p/2k5tVdS

 

[AmyMay]

Routine, consistency, (as many fun exciting fun rides as possible), and determination ?

 

[AandK]

What’s he like in the school, more forward or the same? If the same I’d question something like PSSM if all other avenues were okay.

 

[JennBags]

What’s he like in the school, more forward or the same? If the same I’d question something like PSSM if all other avenues were okay.

Better in the school, and he was tested for EMS last year. I don't think he has any PSSM symptoms.

 

[AandK]

Better in the school, and he was tested for EMS last year. I don't think he has any PSSM symptoms.

It was your comments about it being like wading through treacle to get him going and how sluggish he was that made me suggest PSSM.

 

[millikins]

He sounds like our Dales mare. My daughter can get her out alone but it's not a lot of fun for anyone. She too is better in company but not great. She is however excellent on the roads and enjoys schooling so our plan when her foal is weaned is to get her broken to drive and do dressage, showing and driving for fitness. There have been many threads about how much is a good hack worth, the answer being a lot which indicates to me that many horses are not.

 

[Tash88]

I think if everything physical has been checked and ruled out, I would get a trusted professional to hack him out and see how he goes. That isn't to beat him round or make him do anything harshly, but to see if he does it with someone who isn't expecting him to do it, and they may be able to help you both. You say he doesn't 'do' anything, but does the napping make you nervous at all?

It also sounds like he is becoming less responsive to the leg. Instead of 'nagging' him by pushing constantly, when he stops (and only when he stops), give a firm leg aid, backed up by the stick if necessary. Then when he is moving, even if he's going slowly, try not to give any leg aids at all. And make sure you aren't inadvertently slowing him down with your seat as well; sometimes when a horse isn't taking you forward it is easy to lean back, and that doesn't help the situation either.

Good luck

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Maybe when you mix in more schooling when your lorry is repaired, he might become a bit more interested in hacks. It may increase his fitness level and make him more in front of your leg.

Take a few riding lessons maybe.

Or maybe hack somewhere new.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

JB, is he a reasonable shape? I'm asking this as many have ballooned in the last 2 to 3 weeks after the rain - and I'm actually having to diet B Fuzzy now, which is unheard of!
If he is carrying weight, then this could be an issue, as also coming off grass to be ridden, so feeling sated and not giving a stuff (I had this with the late FLF when podgy).

Has he always been like this as you recall?

I agree with the suggestion about getting a good pro on board to assess. I'm happy to assess when we meet at camp if you think it might help?

However, in all other respects, he does seem to be doing the job you want as is safe and sensible, just appears to have dragging brakes?

 

[Jellymoon]

My new horse was a bit like this during our first year together, a bit nappy, kept planting himself and then not really going forward, like he had the handbrake on all the time. I was quite firm about it and sent him quite strongly forward with my legs and a tap with the stick, also whip whopping the reins either side of his whither for a good reaction.
I managed to get on top of the planting, but he was still so sluggish out hacking I was starting to wonder if something was up!
However, gradually he got better, and now he’s fine. He walks out well and loves a good canter up the bridleway, nicely forward. He’s still keener to get home than go out, but he’s a much happier boy all round.
I think he was insecure with me, his new owner, and wasn’t sure where he was, or if he was going to be leaving his home again. Now he knows me, and that a hack doesn’t mean he’s being taken away from his friends forever, he’s much happier.
Maybe if your boy hasn’t had much consistency for the past few years, he just needs to be hacked out regularly for a good few months, or longer. I would say it took the best part of a year with my chap. I was determined as I don’t have a school so hacking is our only option.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I wonder if a good insrtuctor could help.

 

[asmp]

Apologies if this has been mentioned but when one of our horses starting napping, it was because his saddle didn’t fit anymore. Has yours been checked recently?

 

[ycbm]

Better in the school, and he was tested for EMS last year. I don't think he has any PSSM symptoms.

I've had one and met a few PSSM horses and they were all spooky to hack, I think it's part of the condition but I've no idea why it should be.
.

 

[paddy555]

It was your comments about it being like wading through treacle to get him going and how sluggish he was that made me suggest PSSM.

Yes I can't decide if this is a description of a basically very very green unfit horse who just needs riding out as if he was a baby again and again consistently until he has "got it" and got fit or alternatively a horse that is fine in the field but reacts to work by having problems and "riding through treacle"

no idea if he is supplemented on vit E but if not then I would trial a high dose or alternatively get vit e blood tested and then look at other PSSM aspects which are really only management.
I would at the same time go down the very green horse route and long rein out on the roads/tracks/fields for a while to see if you can stop the napping and get him more interested/happy hacking out.

I think doing those then something would become more obvious.

ETA sorry I don't remember what breed he is?

 

[paddy555]

I've had one and met a few PSSM horses and they were all spooky to hack, I think it's part of the condition but I've no idea why it should be.
.

pain/discomfort. Bad times they are more spooky, good times they are more regulated and under control they are less so. Equishure does it for mine. No equishure lots of spooks, equishure and nice and calm.

 

[JennBags]

Routine, consistency, (as many fun exciting fun rides as possible), and determination ?

that's what I've been trying. Our hacking is limited, so fun exciting rides are not easily possible, once the lorry is back I'm going to start boxing him out

It was your comments about it being like wading through treacle to get him going and how sluggish he was that made me suggest PSSM.

Ok, I didn't realise that was a symptom, I'll look into that more deeply.

I think if everything physical has been checked and ruled out, I would get a trusted professional to hack him out and see how he goes. That isn't to beat him round or make him do anything harshly, but to see if he does it with someone who isn't expecting him to do it, and they may be able to help you both. You say he doesn't 'do' anything, but does the napping make you nervous at all?

It also sounds like he is becoming less responsive to the leg. Instead of 'nagging' him by pushing constantly, when he stops (and only when he stops), give a firm leg aid, backed up by the stick if necessary. Then when he is moving, even if he's going slowly, try not to give any leg aids at all. And make sure you aren't inadvertently slowing him down with your seat as well; sometimes when a horse isn't taking you forward it is easy to lean back, and that doesn't help the situation either.

Good luck

Thanks. I had a (much lighter and very experienced) friend riding him a while ago, and she had exactly the same with him, she stopped riding because she said she'd rather have a willing partner and he didn't feel like he was. Ash thanks for the tips on nagging legs, it's something I'm very aware of.

Maybe when you mix in more schooling when your lorry is repaired, he might become a bit more interested in hacks. It may increase his fitness level and make him more in front of your leg.

Take a few riding lessons maybe.

Or maybe hack somewhere new.

Thanks, all on my list to try.

JB, is he a reasonable shape? I'm asking this as many have ballooned in the last 2 to 3 weeks after the rain - and I'm actually having to diet B Fuzzy now, which is unheard of!
If he is carrying weight, then this could be an issue, as also coming off grass to be ridden, so feeling sated and not giving a stuff (I had this with the late FLF when podgy).

Has he always been like this as you recall?

I agree with the suggestion about getting a good pro on board to assess. I'm happy to assess when we meet at camp if you think it might help?

However, in all other respects, he does seem to be doing the job you want as is safe and sensible, just appears to have dragging brakes?

Yes he's not a bad weight, grass belly but his girth is still in the same holes as usual. He's always been a little like this but is getting worse. This morning I had planting and backing up just leaving the yard, then when we got to a place we sometimes turn, we had more planting. He's the same if I ride him first thing (when he's just come off the grass) or when he's been innteh stable all day with just some hay. I'd love you to hop on at camp x

My new horse was a bit like this during our first year together, a bit nappy, kept planting himself and then not really going forward, like he had the handbrake on all the time. I was quite firm about it and sent him quite strongly forward with my legs and a tap with the stick, also whip whopping the reins either side of his whither for a good reaction.
I managed to get on top of the planting, but he was still so sluggish out hacking I was starting to wonder if something was up!
However, gradually he got better, and now he’s fine. He walks out well and loves a good canter up the bridleway, nicely forward. He’s still keener to get home than go out, but he’s a much happier boy all round.
I think he was insecure with me, his new owner, and wasn’t sure where he was, or if he was going to be leaving his home again. Now he knows me, and that a hack doesn’t mean he’s being taken away from his friends forever, he’s much happier.
Maybe if your boy hasn’t had much consistency for the past few years, he just needs to be hacked out regularly for a good few months, or longer. I would say it took the best part of a year with my chap. I was determined as I don’t have a school so hacking is our only option.

I've had him 4.5 years, he knows and trusts me and isn't improving, he's getting worse. I think he just doesn't enjoy hacking.

Apologies if this has been mentioned but when one of our horses starting napping, it was because his saddle didn’t fit anymore. Has yours been checked recently?

I am waiting for the saddler to come out, and I've messaged her again this evening to chase her up. It would be fab if this was the reason so I'm hoping you're right.

I've had one and met a few PSSM horses and they were all spooky to hack, I think it's part of the condition but I've no idea why it should be. .

Ok thanks, I'll research.

Thanks everyone, lots to think about.

 

[JennBags]

Yes I can't decide if this is a description of a basically very very green unfit horse who just needs riding out as if he was a baby again and again consistently until he has "got it" and got fit or alternatively a horse that is fine in the field but reacts to work by having problems and "riding through treacle"

no idea if he is supplemented on vit E but if not then I would trial a high dose or alternatively get vit e blood tested and then look at other PSSM aspects which are really only management.
I would at the same time go down the very green horse route and long rein out on the roads/tracks/fields for a while to see if you can stop the napping and get him more interested/happy hacking out.

I think doing those then something would become more obvious.

ETA sorry I don't remember what breed he is?

He's fairly fit now and I wouldn't call him green really. I really think he just doesn't enjoy hacking.
I won't long rein on the roads, far too dangerous round where I am. I do long rein him in the field at least once a week.
He's unknown breeding, just Irish sports type.
I'll research the PSSM and Vit E.

 

[kc921]

When I first got my horse he had a serious napping problem, he would barely even leave the front gate.
I tried all sorts - spinning then kicking on, spurs, whip, trotting him out, going out with other horses, none worked they all just made him stop and run backwards.
I had a silly idea which I thought would never work, but I was out of ideas!!
3 years on he hasn't napped since.

I got him in the sandschool and when he walked forwards after a few paces I would stop him and give him a treat. Repeated this a few times until he understood, did that in the sandschool for 3 or 4 days and then did it out hacking!
I slowly removed the treats to a pat on the neck and he hasn't napped since! Bit like a carrot on a stick concept really!
Good luck ?

 

[Pascal96]

Another thought re saddle. Does he have big shoulders or big shoulder movement? I have had 2 mares with this and 1 in particular would not go forward and could nap and it was solved by putting her in a treeless saddle and wearing that she was totally different - happy and free moving. The other gain that I found using a treeless I never got stiff and it did wonders for my back!

 

[paddy555]

He's fairly fit now and I wouldn't call him green really. I really think he just doesn't enjoy hacking.
I won't long rein on the roads, far too dangerous round where I am. I do long rein him in the field at least once a week.
He's unknown breeding, just Irish sports type.
I'll research the PSSM and Vit E.

doesn't enjoy hacking or dislikes hacking as it causes discomfort?
When I was in a similar position I gave 10000iu vit E per day and long reined (fields will do nicely) for 20 mins every day (daily is the important part) worked up to an hour a day long reining to keep all rider's weight off him and then started riding (daily)
Your post above provides more info and "getting worse" would be a key symptom. Of course you could be simply looking at vit E deficiency. We have just come out of a long winter with late grass growth. Whilst he might be getting more vit e from grass now he may have become deficient during and from the winter.

 

[Michen]

I know you said back and saddle etc have been checked but has an actual vet seen him since he got worse? That would certainly be my first port of call

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Vit E is a good one to consider.

I also used to exercise a horse that got a bit nappy and sluggish when hacking. Turns out his feet were a bit sore. Wasn't super apparent aside from resistance and slowness. Owner got him some boots and he had more pep in his step!

My current horse had a saddle that fit well enough and he schooled in it fine, but would always toss his head down hills. Got a different saddle and head tossing is gone.

So can be many things.

 

[HBB]

I agree with CC, it could be many things.
I'd be looking from the feet up, have a physio check for any tight areas that could be causing discomfort and saddle rechecked that it fits him and the rider. Another suggestion is to have regular lessons with a trainer at your yard and see if they can help you both through the napping.

 

[scats]

Just out of curiosity, does his speed increase on the way back home or is he the same the whole way?

 

[Frumpoon]

Right…here goes….deep breath…

I know this is going to go down like a bucket of sick but in that photo at least you look way too big for him

I realise this is like lobbing a grenade and no personal judgements are meant

 

[ihatework]

There are a lot of things that can impact on a horses desire/ability to go forwards. A list below in no particular order, would be worth working through them systematically.

Lameness - bilateral often doesn’t present lame but makes them appear short striding, slow, stuffy

Muscular disorders

Breathing disorders - either physical wind restriction or allergy

General horse fitness and weight

Weight of rider they are carrying

Saddle fit

Training - do they actually understand how to respond to leg aids? Is the rider applying these aids consistently and correctly?

 

[teapot]

How are his feet? Despite the rain, the ground's rock hard...

 

[JennBags]

Wanted to update on this, in case it helps anyone else.

I had the saddler out, whilst the saddle still fitted, his back had dipped further since she last saw him as he's not been using his core at all. She gave me some exercises and carrot stretches to do. Apart from the napping, he's pretty much the perfect horse so I decided to really invest some time and money into him. I concentrated more on !ong reining and started taking him to a water treadmill, I took him to stay for 2-3 days at a time to really give his fitness a boost rather than going for weekly sessions.

After his first stay at aqua training, we went to camp and he was a different horse, both on a surface and on the grass. I hacked out one day with @The Fuzzy Furry and we even had some "wheel spinning" ? It made me remember why I bought him in the first place, he was a total star.

I decided to put hind shoes back on him, as he really struggled on any surface apart from sand or grass, they was obvious at camp with the contrast from one to the other.

Since then, he's had several short stays at aqua training and the difference in him is incredible, he feels so much stronger and fitter, he's forward and keen to go out. I've boxed out to ride with friends a couple of times recently, and we've had jogging and some great gallops too. I've also started him on Vit E although that's only been about 3 weeks so far so I wouldn't expect anything immediate from that.

Thanks for all the suggestions, and I'm so pleased it was as simple a thing as hind shoes and proper fitness. My next challenge will be keeping the fitness going once winter arrives!

 

[hobo]

Good to read this JB. For the winter if you can afford to keep the treadmill stayovers if he did them mid week and you can ride at the weekends there is no reason why he would lose to much fitness. If you could find an indoor school to have lessons at once a week or fortnight that would be job done and you can enter next year ready to go.

 

[JennBags]

Good to read this JB. For the winter if you can afford to keep the treadmill stayovers if he did them mid week and you can ride at the weekends there is no reason why he would lose to much fitness. If you could find an indoor school to have lessons at once a week or fortnight that would be job done and you can enter next year ready to go.

Yes I may do this come the winter although I'm hoping to be working fewer hours by then so should be able to keep the riding going. There are a few indoor schools locally that I can box out to, am planning on doing that too.