WWYD/pay???

[jhoward]

Last year following an accident, my horse was on livery he was being a pain in the butt, so a friend (long term friend known around 15 years and lived on her farm once.) offered to take him for me, so he could live out in a herd, and she would get him backed for me.

up until around September i couldnt drive, so totally relied on friend taking care of said beast then I started to go up and feed, but due to half a hand i was limited to what i could do. Then a couple of months ago beast started going through fences and chewing the post and rail, at this point i was feeding most days and hay went out, but i was struggling with gates/horse 1.5 hands so it wasnt every day.

then horse waved back legs at friends husband and got religated to A stable which is where hes been for the past 2 months, when i bought hiim in it became apparant that he was in a bit of mess, weight loss rain scaled mud fever etc.

(transpires friend had been leaving rug off hoping horse would get a shock on the fence and stop going through it. )

why had i not noticed all of this>? well id been feeding him over a gate as couldnt get him out of the field on my own.

any way Ive now sold the beast.. BUT HERES THE WWYD

Im due some money from an injury claim, and always said id give friend a decent amount but after the state of my horse im peed off, i also have had her using my feed, limiting hay etc whilst hes been in, i couldnt afford to keep a horse stabled which was why he was sent to hers to live in a field, im really peed off ive been forced to sell him.

so what do i pay friend? he was backed.. well ridden 3 times by kids

ive helped her out with tons of things, and have recently thrown her 30 quid for extra hay.

id been thinking of giving her a grand but now im not sure what to do.??

 

[niagaraduval]

I think a grand is a bit generous !

 

[Moomin1]

I'm confused.

If friend had left the rug off, then how did you not notice weight loss, given you were feeding daily?

 

[PandorasJar]

How long did they actually have horse?

From the way I'm reading at least 6 months. That works out 160 odd a month if a grand at 6 months. Are you happy paying this for what was done? Livery, feeding, day to day care. Then consider if the state of the horse affected sale price.

If you want to keep as a friend then I'd pay a reasonable amount for what was actually done and not put a horse with her again.

 

[Littlelegs]

I'd calculate whatever it would have cost for diy somewhere similar, plus cost of hay, feed etc minus anything you've already paid. And whatever you think is fair for the level of care he received. Which by the sounds of it, you could have got the same 'care' if you'd paid a teen with a years experience £10 a week to throw food out.

 

[webble]

How many weeks was he there for in total? Was the hay he was fed your or your friends? I think maybe £10 a week grass livery depending on how much grass livery is near you

 

[niagaraduval]

I'd calculate whatever it would have cost for diy somewhere similar, plus cost of hay, feed etc minus anything you've already paid. And whatever you think is fair for the level of care he received. Which by the sounds of it, you could have got the same 'care' if you'd paid a teen with a years experience £10 a week to throw food out.

Totally agree with this post !

 

[PandorasJar]

ND - a lot for a month, nothing for a year. It all depends on the details of how long and what was provided imo.

 

[Moomin1]

Sorry OP, I keep re-reading this to try and get my head around it, as your first post is a bit confusing to me.

So, you were feeding the horse over the gate almost daily, up until the horse was then stabled. You then noticed on stabling that the horse was in poor condition with rainscald and mudfever, which you say you hadn't noticed because you had only been feeding 'over the gate'.

But then you say that your friend had removed the horse's rug to try and let it have a shock from the fence (I assume you are implying this has contributed to the rainscald).

I am confused as to a few things, firstly being that if you were feeding almost daily, then surely you must have seen at some point, the rug being off the horse, and questioned it with said friend? Also, if the rug had been off, and you had been feeding almost daily, surely you would have seen the deterioration in condition?

Despite that side of things though, I would say that if you were feeding and still having some contribution to your horse's care regularly, then it was your responsibility also to ensure your horse was in good health. I appreciate you had a problem with your hand, making things difficult, but you could still have run a hand down the legs, or removed a rug to check underneath. I can use one hand to remove my mare's rug, and she is 16.3 and 7ft in rugs, so they are heavy and cumbersome.

With regard your friend deciding she wanted your horse stabled, well, that is entirely up to her on her land and if it posed a risk to her husband/partner. You knew about the situation at the time, as you said you noticed the horse's condition when it came into the stable two months ago, so you had two months to try and make alternative arrangements in the meantime if you couldn't afford the stabling. I don't think it was unreasonable in that case that she was feeding your horse with your feed.
Apologies if I have read your OP completely wrong though.

 

[*hic*]

Sorry, I can't make head nor tail of it either.

 

[jhoward]

ffs 3 times ive typed a bloody long reply and lost it grrrrr.

 

[jhoward]

horse has then been since aug. friend knew at the time i was unable to look after him, all fed and bedding has been paid for by me, hay is hers.

rug was off end of summer, when weight was fine. ive not always had access to a car so not been able to go up all the time.

i was going to give a grand as she was a friend and it was nothing to me but now im feeling a bit well bitter, selling my horse is killing me, and ive had my hand forced. she hasn't looked after as she promised, so what do i do pay?

excuse this short reply sodding pc. fire away the questions but please do not pick holes in the care of my horse, friend knew i couldnt do many things, which is why he went there. ive also all this time been due a second op which means no arm/hand for 3 months again, and its still not known how much use i will get back of hand, so making other arrangements was not possible, also financially, i couldn't do it.

 

[webble]

Ok well maybe £10 per week for grass livery and £10-£15 a week for hay for the weeks hay were given? Depends how much hay was given really

 

[moana]

Still confused.com

Has rug been off since summer, as the last post implies? In which case.....

how about a Grand?

 

[PandorasJar]

horse has then been since aug. friend knew at the time i was unable to look after him, all fed and bedding has been paid for by me, hay is hers.

rug was off end of summer, when weight was fine. ive not always had access to a car so not been able to go up all the time.

i was going to give a grand as she was a friend and it was nothing to me but now im feeling a bit well bitter, selling my horse is killing me, and ive had my hand forced. she hasn't looked after as she promised, so what do i do pay?

excuse this short reply sodding pc. fire away the questions but please do not pick holes in the care of my horse, friend knew i couldnt do many things, which is why he went there. ive also all this time been due a second op which means no arm/hand for 3 months again, and its still not known how much use i will get back of hand, so making other arrangements was not possible, also financially, i couldn't do it.

So the horse would be sold if she wasn't in the equation anyway? In which case remove that factor.

What's grass livery cost in your area, add daily checks, add hay cost.

Remove cost loss (if any) through selling horse in poorer condition than originally.

Does that come to a reasonable price?

 

[Moomin1]

Still confused.com

Has rug been off since summer, as the last post implies? In which case.....

how about a Grand?

Same here! I am still confused.

OP, I am not trying to pick fault as such, but it does seem like a bit of a weak protest to me. You were still having pretty much daily responsibility for the horse's care, so, whether or not you yourself could remove rugs etc etc or lift legs to check for mud fever etc, you still had a responsibility to ensure that her needs were met. Perhaps you could have asked friend to remove rug in your presence every few days, or just run a hand under the rug, or taken someone to the field with you?

I don't think you can lay the blame at your friend's door entirely.

I would pay what you feel is a reasonable amount for grass livery in your area, for the amount of time she was at her property.

 

[jhoward]

No id never of sold him if he'd been able to remain in the field out with a heard.

Grass livery in area around 10 a week and for hay 5-10.

Value of horse well its a crap market horse is quirky and not at his best and near 5 and only backed. I didn't get a huge amount for him and gave away about 1k worth of kit with him ...so that's a hard one

 

[PandorasJar]

No id never of sold him if he'd been able to remain in the field out with a heard.

But he isn't. Remove your friend entirely from the equation. If you can't afford (time/money) to put him elsewhere then this shouldn't be in the equation at all.

Grass livery in area around 10 a week and for hay 5-10.



Value of horse well its a crap market horse is quirky and not at his best and near 5 and only backed. I didn't get a huge amount for him and gave away about 1k worth of kit with him ...so that's a hard one

Working out from 7 months with your costs:
Livery - 280
Hay - 140/280

Costs for daily care:
At the very least £14 a week imo - £392

I wouldn't include costs for backing

That makes it £812 - £952

Quirky 5yo with kid sat on a handful of times - I expect rainscald/little loss of weight will make little difference at this time and people will be buying on potential knowing it's been an awful winter anyway. So I wouldn't factor this in either.

So in my opinion your ball park £1000 for 7months I think is around the right mark.

 

[jhoward]

Thank you although the daily care is the questional bit I understand people not understanding about why im not impressed at the state he ended up in, I was never ment to be caring for him, he was soleyin friends care but I had to try and look after him better.

Try this as a thought push a full wheel barrow, but you only have one full hand the other side you can only balance on your wrist...thats before dealing with 17hh of baby that has been cooped up for 2 months ...its no fun I can't even hold him and hose his legs off.

Which is why im a bit bitter about it all, in the middle of this friends son had an accident which left him paralised and her in a different country ...well who was there then driving her non driving partner about and checking on all her stock...ummm

 

[Jools2345]

in the middle of this friends son had an accident which left him paralised and her in a different country ...well who was there then driving her non driving partner about and checking on all her stock...ummm

if this is the same friend then maybe you should have sorted somewhere out for your own horse at the time the above happened, my priorities would be with my children not someone elses horse.
by the sounds of it she was doing you a huge favour and she had major life changes that you knew about, why did you leave the responsibility of your horse with your friend?

 

[carthorse]

Did your friend back the horse. I would think £1000 is a reasonable amount. Lots of young horses get mud fever and rain scald if they are out and it sounds like your horse did some damage. You would have got next to nothing if it wasnt backed. Be generous to your friend and feel good about it

 

[PandorasJar]

^ jhoward that's why I allowed 2 quid a day rather than a groom's wage/part livery etc costs which would probably (certainly around here be nearer 10 quid daily at a minimum costs to be worth coming out, or if on site, poo picking, checking, feeding etc costs. Hay is paid for, but someone has to put it out etc) be more.

If you were looking after for part of that period then don't account those days. But I wouldn't be including sorting out mud fever/rugging/poo picking etc in 2quid daily, just a check each end of the day.

I'm not judging on whether you shouldve done more etc and don't see any reason to do so, I'm simply saying appropriate costs in my opinion based on the services provided.

 

[Moomin1]

Thank you although the daily care is the questional bit I understand people not understanding about why im not impressed at the state he ended up in, I was never ment to be caring for him, he was soleyin friends care but I had to try and look after him better.

Try this as a thought push a full wheel barrow, but you only have one full hand the other side you can only balance on your wrist...thats before dealing with 17hh of baby that has been cooped up for 2 months ...its no fun I can't even hold him and hose his legs off.

Which is why im a bit bitter about it all, in the middle of this friends son had an accident which left him paralised and her in a different country ...well who was there then driving her non driving partner about and checking on all her stock...ummm

But even if he was 'meant' to be under the care of the friend, you were still attending most days, and that is how I cannot quite understand how he ended up in the condition you say he did, without you noticing for two months? You say you could not hose legs, but by the sounds of things, you did not even check the legs, which would have been very simple with one hand alone. Or even if it wasn't, then surely, as I said earlier, it would have been simple enough to ask your friend to check them whilst you were there to see?

I think you are actually being a bit harsh on your friend. Whilst she may well have looked after him shoddily on her behalf (though I stand by what I say above), she still took him onto her property as a favour when you were in need. I don't think you are being fair at all saying you feel angry that you have now had to sell your horse because she decided she didn't want him in her fields anymore. That is entirely her own choice and right, especially if she felt your youngster was posing a safety risk. It is not her fault if you could not afford to make other arrangements.

 

[Singing Dawg]

Do you want her as a friend in the future? Think long and hard about parting with any money, you will never get it back again, your horse is gone, does your friend care? If you really feel the need to give, give her a bunch of flowers and fifty quid inside a card, I'd be more inclined not to have her as a friend if she neglected your horse while you were not able to look after it.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

If you dont want to pay her then dont pay her, simplez.

This whole thing is a bit confusing. So was the rug on or off when you were going up? He could have gotten the rainscald due to rug being put on wet horse and not being breathable, so that one I will give the benefit of the doubt JH.

Personally if your annoyed at the state of the horse then speak to her about it then decide what you want to do. If you were going up daily and never noticed then you can hardly take it out on her.

I hope you r hand is better and you can get back to normality and back to having things the way you would do them

 

[Moomin1]

Do you want her as a friend in the future? Think long and hard about parting with any money, you will never get it back again, your horse is gone, does your friend care? If you really feel the need to give, give her a bunch of flowers and fifty quid inside a card, I'd be more inclined not to have her as a friend if she neglected your horse while you were not able to look after it.

If OP's horse really was in as bad a condition as to be classed as neglect, then how on earth did she not notice given the fact she was attending almost every day herself? That's what I don't get.

Maybe I am missing some vital information somewhere.

 

[ofcourseyoucan]

well grass does not grow for free, neither does fencing, nor water!nor insurance. a grand for keeping a horse for 7 months is cheap. hay is nearly £5 bale and at 17 hands he would be eating a bale a day.many people manage with one hand. some have no choice. Your friend didnt make you sell your horse you chose to.

 

[jhoward]

if this is the same friend then maybe you should have sorted somewhere out for your own horse at the time the above happened, my priorities would be with my children not someone elses horse.
by the sounds of it she was doing you a huge favour and she had major life changes that you knew about, why did you leave the responsibility of your horse with your friend?

again this was not possible. and the agreement which was her offering was to look after him

Did your friend back the horse. I would think £1000 is a reasonable amount. Lots of young horses get mud fever and rain scald if they are out and it sounds like your horse did some damage. You would have got next to nothing if it wasnt backed. Be generous to your friend and feel good about it

not as such hed done all the ground work with me she just put light weight kids on him and increased the weight of the child.

But even if he was 'meant' to be under the care of the friend, you were still attending most days, and that is how I cannot quite understand how he ended up in the condition you say he did, without you noticing for two months? You say you could not hose legs, but by the sounds of things, you did not even check the legs, which would have been very simple with one hand alone. Or even if it wasn't, then surely, as I said earlier, it would have been simple enough to ask your friend to check them whilst you were there to see?

I think you are actually being a bit harsh on your friend. Whilst she may well have looked after him shoddily on her behalf (though I stand by what I say above), she still took him onto her property as a favour when you were in need. I don't think you are being fair at all saying you feel angry that you have now had to sell your horse because she decided she didn't want him in her fields anymore. That is entirely her own choice and right, especially if she felt your youngster was posing a safety risk. It is not her fault if you could not afford to make other arrangements.

i couldnt check his legs he was in a field of mud and i couldnt get him out on my own.

friend is known for being a tad slack (think rspca being up to see her more than once) which is why i was trying my hardest to ensure he was getting feeds into him .

i dont want to be harsh on her, peed off yes but i dont want to do her out of money hence the wwyd.

tbh i never want to speak her again but again i dont want to be unfair

 

[MileAMinute]

Ok, so if you knew your friend was 'slack' and has had repeated visits from the RSPCA, then why the hell would you entrust your horse in her care?!

Either I'm reading this whole thread wrong or there are a lot of things not adding up here...

 

[ihatework]

A grand for 7 months including hay is pretty damn cheap and it would be unrealistic to expect 5* care for that. Pay her the money and then distance yourself if you want to cool the friendship.