WWYD - very annoyed, upset owner - poorly horse

[HKJ]

Hi all,

I come to ask your help once again. It's long I'm afraid

Back in January, I posted on here about what people thought I should do with my mare and sending her away to a 'pro' to be competed for the year.

All advise was used and I thought I'd found the perfect yard - did all the checks asked all the questions and was complety satisfied.

Took the girl up to the new yard and left her with no doubts that she was in the right place.

I had texts saying that she 'was being a good girl' and 'she was very good today' a few times and had a quick chat with the rider (phone calls were rushed and never lasted more than 4 mins)
Got a text on week 2 saying it was taking her a while to settle down, but she was being a good girl.

(Are you starting to get the picture..?)
After week 3 (the rider had been away the first week so grooms lunged, then away 3 days in week 3) I had a text to call the rider, which I did.

The rider said they had no time to work my horse and though she had done nothing wrong, had found another rider who would take the mare on.

I was very shocked about this, but my rider said the mare had not put a foot wrong and she would definatly go to advanced level, but was unable to say how much higher.

Anyway - as I wanted the mare to continue and compete this year, I checked out the new rider and found she was a much better choice anyway as the yard was smaller and quieter and the new rider answered all my questions the right way.

Happy, I then went and popped in to see my girl on my way home. She was stood rock still at the door, not a horse in sight. I was so surprised to see her quiet as she normally stresses without another horse in sight.

I went away for 2 weeks and arranges to pick up my mare when I got back. Rider said this was totally fine and the mare would continue to be ridden and schooled until she left.

Fast forward to the day we picked her up .......

The rider was away at a show that day, and when the grooms saw us arrive in the lorry, they scarpered - we parked the lorry and found them to have bandaged and already out on her travel rug.

I noticed that the mare had a couple of scratches on her neck and was told 'oh, she just ran into the horse walker. It's nothing'

They seemed to want us to get her and go. But we'd traveled a long way to get there do stopped for a cuppa and then went back to get the girl.

On bringing her (quietly - not like her) out of the stable found that her travel bandages had been put on like exercise bandages - where do grooms train these days ?!
So we promptly took them off and whilst mum rolled, I rebandaged. Then I noticed her off side hind was hot and puffy. So I went and started to check her over. The tail bandage was too tight so I pulled that off and saw that she was really dirty (as in not sponges off for ages) and that her quarters looked strange. So off comes the rug - and OMG - the weight loss was rediculous. Her coat was dull.
My mare who should have been well muscled after 5 weeks work (and I'd put in 3 weeks before she left me) had 0 muscle, you could see her back bone, her rump had sunk and was boney, her neck looked awful and her ribs were showing .

We quickly covered her over and loaded her and took her to the new rider.

The journey was silent, even after we arrived and opened the ramp down the mare never reacted - she is quite excitable and loves going out. She even walked down the ramp, instead of the usual jump off the bottom half.

The new rider was really surprised when we took the rug off to show what we had discovered

The new rider said the mare looked exhausted and even her eyes had a dull look to them.

Now fast forward 4 weeks .....,,

Over the month with the new rider, we discovered that the mare cannot hold an outline at all, because she is too weak in her muscle from the loss of condition.

So the mare was put on ablib hage and some muscle building supplement. She was then lunged gently over the next 3 weeks and only ridden occasionally to see how she was getting on.

I went to see her yesterday and the chiropractor was there. The chiropractor told me she had seen the mare the day after she arrived and couldn't believe how bad condition she was in (to have come from the yard she did)

Anyway - we watched the mare walk down a small slope and noticed that she dragged her hind feet as she went down. I'd had a feeling something was wrong. For my mare who was ready for work, a lovely healthy, never been lame before, athletic and usually over rather under weight - even after 4 weeks - was not right

The chiropractor said she couldn't do anything, so the vet came out this morning and is saying (as they all do) bone scan, X-rays, then nerve blocking the hind legs....

WHY?!?!

The mare in question was at a top yard - all the other horses look fab. How can no one have noticed ??
Why did this happen

I'm now still paying top wack for the livery and I don't know what to do

Do I bring her home and deal with it myself

Do I leave her at the comp yard with rider 2 and let them deal with it.

I have had horses long enough to know that 'something' has happened. Some people are telling me to sue rider 1 for negelt and for the vets bills to come, and to get back the livery (they still not cashed my cheque of over £1000) for 5 weeks)

Moral guidance needed please

 

[LEC]

I think I would be very pissed off - first you need to speak to the rider and get the full truth if you can. Ask why your horse looks like cr@p and the rest look great.
Take photos of the horse for the future. Email them to yourself so they are time dated if your camera does not do it.
Did you have a contract with the rider?
I would be making sure they did not cash my livery cheque and perhaps looking to get remuneration for vets fees incurred especially as it was not highlighted during the livery period.

It does unfortunately happen. I know two lots 4* rider who had horses removed by the owner because they looked so awful and nothing was done or said about it to the owner.

 

[maxie]

Really sorry to read what your mare has been through, it sounds like a nightmare.
If she were mine, I would bring her home and do whatever checks or care are needed to bring her back to her normal healthy self.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

1. Stop the cheque.
2. Bring horse home & keep her there till she is 100% right again.

Take statement from vet/chiro & YO of yard 2 & keep on file along with photos you must have taken (please say you did?), take time to decide if you want to proceed in taking further action against yard 1.

 

[showjumpingfilly]

I'd be bringing her home, tbh I think I would have brought her home 4 weeks ago. Did you not go and visit when she was at the first yard?

Definately wouldn't be paying for such a terrible service.

 

[carthorse]

How very upsetting. I would have asked for an explanation straight away. So sad you haven't got a suitable rider nearby but I would have the horse home for now.

 

[NikkiF]

Ditto what other people have said:

Bring her home so you know she is being cared for properly.

Stop the cheque.

Keep photos of the state of her.

Have you not spoken to owner of 1st yard?? I would have been down their throats if my horse had been left to get in that state.

A couple of years ago I sent a horse to a selling yard, but went there every 2 weeks to check on her and see her ridden progress.

 

[cundlegreen]

I've had much the same thing happen to a horse of mine who went to a young talented rider on sales livery. FORTUNATELY, I took a photo of him before he went, as I didn't expect to see him again. After the rider had to leave his yard, I went down as things were beginning to feel suspicious. I found a lifeless, starey coated horse who had lost most of his carefully put on muscle. He'd only been away 5 weeks, and its amazing how quickly a horse can lose condition and muscle if kept too cold and not fed enough. I got photos taken straight away, and repossessed my horse, but you have my sympathies. You would be best to get your mare home and get her fit and happy again.However, you paid a pro a "pros" livery charges, and in my book, that makes them very much accountable for your mare's lack of condition and musculature. I would have your vet do a complete rundown of her in case she's had a fall/accident, as she may have been compromised in her way of going, and therefore not be capable of going to the top. If this is the case, your mare is worth considerably less than she had been, and somebody needs to be accountable for that.

 

[HKJ]

Thank you all.

I did (thank goodness) take pictures before I took her to yard 1. But I think I was so shocked that I just wanted out of there - rider 1 was not there and the grooms had vanished.

I'm very happy with rider 2, who is doing a wonderful job, but now we have a horse (just spoken to vet again) who needs bone scans - thank god for insurance.

I'm going to cancel rider 1s cheque tomorrow, and write a letter. The vet I spoke to today also said she looked in poor condition and she looked so much better to me than a month ago.

I had to leave her at the other yard for the extra 2 weeks because I was working away. And at that time I had no idea anything was wrong. I never saw her worked or with the rugs off

That's a note to anyone else - always insist on seeing them work and when visiting look under the rug.

I'll keep you posted on how I get on.... Am so gutted

 

[seabsicuit2]

Same old same old,

They all do it. Fecking nightmare can NOT trust anyone. People are such liars

 

[seabsicuit2]

This makes me so angry. How the hell do people think they can get away with it and charge money for it?? What planet are they on?
Couldn't you have said anything before you even left that awful yard?

 

[TarrSteps]

Same old same old,

They all do it. Fecking nightmare can NOT trust anyone. People are such liars

Um, "all"???

The OP has already said she's happy with where the horse is now.

OP you need to speak to the first yard. Stop the cheque immediately (that might spark a conversation right there). I know you want to rip them a new one but the first thing you need to do is find out, if you can, what happened, so you know where to start looking for the current problem. There is very difficult as people are obviously reluctant to come clean when something has gone wrong, but if you come at it politely (I know, I know . . .) then you might get some answers.

If that doesn't work, off with the gloves. Tell them your vet thinks the horse has sustained an injury and you are going to start looking. Ask again if there is anything they want to tell you. . .

If you stop the cheque you are in a trickier situation re trying for damages since technically you haven't paid. At that point I think you have to examine your own capacity to withstand pursuing them and have an idea what you hope to gain. If the horse requires vet work then you might have an avenue there BUT be very careful about alerting your insurance company. If you policy has a clause about the horse remaining in your care, custody and control then you might find she's technically not covered! That is usually when you find out the yard is not insured. . .

Re the current situation, there seems little point in leaving the mare where she is if she can't be ridden. Have a frank chat with the current rider and ask what he/she suggests but I'd be inclined to take the horse home and sort things out that way.

What a mess. Hindsight is 20/20 and it's all very well to think how you might have done things differently but you made the decisions you did in good faith. I guess at least you have the current rider to go back to when you've got the mare back on track again. Good luck.

 

[seabsicuit2]

Sorry, no, not all, admittedly!

 

[popsdosh]

just a little off the wall,which part of the country is the first yard dont want to know rider just rough geographics!

 

[ElleJS]

How absolutely terrible. Some very good advice above though. Really hope you get her back on track I'm hoping as she wasn't at Yard 1 for too long there really can't be that much damage. Lets hope Yard 2 get her sorted.

As someone who does this for a living this makes me so very angry. I also run a competiton yard & take in clients horses for schooling selling and competing and I've competed at a high level myself with both self produced and established horses and I am FLABAGASTED at the attitude of Yard 1 however good they are that is not how you look after a client. I always ride clients horses my self even if I'm competing I ask the owners permission to allow my very trust worthy groom or my experienced mother to lunge their horse and I do everything the owner wants to the letter however obscure and even if it is something I wouldn't do personally, im being paid to provide a service looking after and producing a clients horse amd they call the shots. I bend over backwards to be there for the owner and talk about the horses progress at absolutley minimium every other day. I adore it when owners comment how stunning and shiny their horse looks & how they improve beit a low level hunter or an advanced event horse. We are not all the same so have faith. Just can't understand how anyone could let a horse get into such poor condition.

Best of luck, hope she recovers well

 

[IncaCola]

Totally agree you should stop cheque and get some answers for what has been a totally unacceptable service from a pro rider. I have known of many yards where the horses are ridden far less than the owners think and have been told by some that i am mad to work clients horses 6 days a week! The truth of it is at bigger yards the one rider never has the time to do all the horses which is one of the reasons i down sized to 5-6 horses as i do almost all riding and most care myself. But even if they didnt ride her no excuse not to feed her adequately and also perhaps tried to hide an incident or accident which has left her so poor. I send all my owners regular photo and video updates on facebook so even if they cant visit they can see progress.Totally understand that it can be difficult to talk regularly on the phone when doing 12 hour days at horses but regular email updates are easy. I agree with getting her home and getting her right or atleast very close monitoring at the new place as you have to remeber this new rider didnt know your girl before the problems so cannot know when she is totally right again if that makes sense. Hope you get it sorted soon and no lasting damage is done.

 

[HKJ]

Hi all,

I thought I'd give you an up date as t how my sweet girl is doing, and what we have found out since this started.

Since returning her home, we carefully put the pieces of the puzzle together and she had a full vetting examination done and it was concluded that she had a neurological disorder cause by trauma to the neck.

She was likely to have had ulcers from the stress, pain and lack of eating. So we treated her for all the symptoms. Months of Danilon and she had steroids at the beginning to try to take down any swellings around her nervous system.

If you type in 'neurological disorders in horses' into google it'll come up with how she was walking. It was horrible as her condition got slowly got worse.

Now, months down the line she has made a 90% recovery, and we are off the meds. I am allowed to ride her in walk and to build her up really slowly.

She has been back in work for 3 weeks now, and though she can cope with 20 mins (she starts stretching after 15 mins) all is good and progressing in the right direction.

Her coat is glossy, she is happy, she doesn't drag her toes and she is co-ordinated again :-D

As for rider 1 - well, no I didn't cancel the cheque because I waited another week and it was too late, and I've not heard anything from that person since.

I'm sure our paths will cross again, and I still believe that the groom was at fault and the rider didn't know what had happened . But that was no excuse to treat me or my horse the way we were.

I'll update again in a few month when (not if anymore!) we start trotting and schooling.

 

[IncaCola]

So glad to hear she is getting better

 

[HKJ]

Forgot to say that the trauma to the neck was most likely caused by her going over backwards in the horse walker (which would account for the scars on her neck and the muscle loss on her face)

She was also 'left on the walker for longer as it help to keep her quieter' - the walker was only a 4 so not very big.

She wasn't eating her hay as it was at the back of the stable and she was glued to the front watching everything going on ( so she starved herself) I did ask why her neck was not moved to the front so she could eat it, and was told that it was. But both times I went to that yard the net was full and at the back.

When I spoke to rider 1, the person said that my mare had a 'weak back' and would take too long to get up to scratch. Now, the mare had only been there 3 weeks when it was decided that she was to move to another yard.
Rider 1 had only ridden her for weeks 2 and 3, and we believe the 'walker accident' happened in week 1.

The mare is (or was) in NO WAY weak in the back. Am still gutted. But I've goes on.......

 

[eventing_2012]

Sounds awful, I would be mortified. I would not think twice about bringing her home to be honest. Get her back to full health and re assess the situation. Hope you get to the bottom of it

 

[onemoretime]

Really sorry to read what your mare has been through, it sounds like a nightmare.
If she were mine, I would bring her home and do whatever checks or care are needed to bring her back to her normal healthy self.

As Maxi says I would bring her home and get her right yourself. After a dreadful experience last year I have a very different view on these people who call themselves "professional".

 

[onemoretime]

Same old same old,

They all do it. Fecking nightmare can NOT trust anyone. People are such liars

Oh so true!!

 

[Goldenstar]

I have been where you are I was injured unable to drive the day after I was allowed to drive I drove two hours to see her .
I did not recognise her I brought her home the vet came that night she wanted to call the SSPCA .
My horse was PTS I hope so much you are luckier.
I still cope with it by not thinking about it ( I am crying typing this )I completely failed her .
I will never ever let one out of my care again if I ever do I will see it twice a week.
Bring your horse home and regroup .

 

[MagicMelon]

I think I would be very pissed off - first you need to speak to the rider and get the full truth if you can. Ask why your horse looks like cr@p and the rest look great.
Take photos of the horse for the future. Email them to yourself so they are time dated if your camera does not do it.
Did you have a contract with the rider?
I would be making sure they did not cash my livery cheque and perhaps looking to get remuneration for vets fees incurred especially as it was not highlighted during the livery period.

It does unfortunately happen. I know two lots 4* rider who had horses removed by the owner because they looked so awful and nothing was done or said about it to the owner.

Ditto this. My horse prior to me taking him on, I was told ended up at a "top" eventers yard where he was to be worked and sold, he was taken back apparently very skinny, with scratches all over him and lame. Sounds very similar, hope its not the same yard (I dont know which yard mine was at)!.

Personally OP, if this was my horse then I'd take him home until he was healthy and ready to get going again. No point in this girl having her, if she can barely ride her.

 

[Honey08]

Glad you got to the bottom of it and the mare is doing better. What a horrible story. I still think you should write to the first rider - if you don't think they knew what had happened, they really ought to.. I still think a rider/frontperson of the yard should know what general condition the horse on the yard are in and should notice if a horse is not looking well.