WWYD?

[EternalVetBills]

Before I start, I would just like to say I know what an unbelievably lucky position I'm in. This has been an ongoing dream of mine for a long time now and it's so nearly in reach.

Cutting a very long story short, I went to look at a property yesterday. 10 great stables, amazing school, nice horse walker, direct access to south downs way. Lovely current owner willing to leave me all his machinery behind as part of the deal. The only issue is the grazing. There is only 6 1/2 acres (one large field currently) and it's laid out in such a way that would make it difficult to section off.

I'm currently able to offer asking price with the owners kind offer of leaving me the machinery (I would have to offer lower otherwise). I was aware that there was someone else interested, they are able to offer asking price + want to buy the machinery.

I'd sort of made up my mind last night that the grazing made it a no go sadly. This morning I've had a call from the estate agent, the owner really liked me and has said he would like me to have first refusal (at asking price with the machinery included).

I'm really torn at what to do. It would work perfectly if I just had my own horses and could chuck them all out together ( I'm also not that bothered about turnout for my working horses anyway, they get ridden 2x a day and go on the walker 1x, although turnout would still be preferable). However, I would have to have at least 4-5 liverys to make it viable.

It was such an amazing yard and everything other than turnout was perfect. I'm just worried about the marketability of it to potential liverys.

So wise beings of HHO; what would you do? I feel like I'm being slightly fanciful to think it could work. The stables are blue though! I'd love blue stables

 

[jnb]

Could you put in an accessible all weather turnout area(s)? Might that make it more easy to market for liveries if competition ones?
Could you electric fence to provide 2 or more paddocks?

 

[Ossy2]

6.5 acres and 10 stables is manageable, especially when the arena etc is already there and doesn’t need to be built out of that 6.5 acres. Can’t picture how the current field couldn’t be split. Could you consult with a local fencing company to see if they had any suggestions on how to lay it out?

 

[Fred66]

Is it possible to lease adjacent land ? Or buy if your finances stretch ? Leasing does allow you to downscale again if you decide you don’t like having liveries ?

 

[EternalVetBills]

Could you put in an accessible all weather turnout area(s)? Might that make it more easy to market for liveries if competition ones?
Could you electric fence to provide 2 or more paddocks?

Sadly I won't have the money do any work on the property for a good year or so after buying. I could split it in two, maybe even three but I really don't think it would work well space wise. I would ideally be able to offer individual turnout and/or small groups depending on what the owners wanted

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

You can split your own land any way you want, just try it out with electric fencing before going to the expense of permanent fencing.

 

[BallyRoanBaubles]

Could you use the same field at different times of the day for different groups of horses if you see what i mean?

 

[EternalVetBills]

6.5 acres and 10 stables is manageable, especially when the arena etc is already there and doesn’t need to be built out of that 6.5 acres. Can’t picture how the current field couldn’t be split. Could you consult with a local fencing company to see if they had any suggestions on how to lay it out?

It could be split, however they would be extremely small postage stamp paddocks. It sort of runs around the stables in an L shape, so very hard section without having to walk through horses to get to other horses.

Is it possible to lease adjacent land ? Or buy if your finances stretch ? Leasing does allow you to downscale again if you decide you don’t like having liveries ?

I queried that when I went to look, however the current owner says neighbour's haven't been open to that so far. Sadly

 

[EternalVetBills]

Could you use the same field at different times of the day for different groups of horses if you see what i mean?

I had thought that. And that's fine this time of year. Unfortunately come the summer, what happens? It's bad enough keeping everything cooped up now

 

[EternalVetBills]

Just wanted to add. Thank you everyone for suggestions! I really do appreciate it and don't want to come across as too negative. I just want to make sure all of the worst case scenarios are thought of in my head!

 

[Widgeon]

Apologies if this is really obvious but is there any option to rent a few more acres next door / nearby? You could always ask the owner, he's likely to know whether any neighbours might be happy to rent grazing for horses.

 

[ester]

It could be split, however they would be extremely small postage stamp paddocks. It sort of runs around the stables in an L shape, so very hard section without having to walk through horses to get to other horses.

Is there room for a pathway along it's length to avoid going through fields of others?

 

[chaps89]

It would be a no from me if there's no funds for putting in an all weather turnout.
In summer some could go out at night and then field swap whilst they're in the others go out a day maybe?
You'd probably end up haying all year round though if the grass never gets a break.
Depends what market you're targeting with liveries though? Competition types are less likely to mind reduced turnout, happy hackers possibly would.
If its a funny layout can you not just put a walk way in so you don't have to walk through fields to get to other fields though?
Stupid question- have you done the maths? Liveries will bring money in yes, but there's obviously costs associated in bedding, hay, feed, business rates, insurance, time - presumably with 10 horses you'll have someone coming in to help too- so that all eats away at what they bring in, will it really make enough difference to justify having them?

 

[EternalVetBills]

Is there room for a pathway along it's length to avoid going through fields of others?

Yes probably there would be. Although I would worry about how muddy it might get. I should have mentioned in my other posts; it's all on clay. If it were chalk or sand I might feel differently, but I do worry about it becoming a bog.

It would be a no from me if there's no funds for putting in an all weather turnout.
In summer some could go out at night and then field swap whilst they're in the others go out a day maybe?
You'd probably end up haying all year round though if the grass never gets a break.
Depends what market you're targeting with liveries though? Competition types are less likely to mind reduced turnout, happy hackers possibly would.
If its a funny layout can you not just put a walk way in so you don't have to walk through fields to get to other fields though?
Stupid question- have you done the maths? Liveries will bring money in yes, but there's obviously costs associated in bedding, hay, feed, business rates, insurance, time - presumably with 10 horses you'll have someone coming in to help too- so that all eats away at what they bring in, will it really make enough difference to justify having them?

It's a tricky one really. I have my competition horses, however my Mum's got her little happy hacker coblet that I'm sure she'd like some more suitable company for.

I've done and re-done the maths about a thousand times over. I used to managed a livery yard so have got all the hidden costs added in too. I'm thankfully in a good area for yard owners

 

[Annagain]

Are you sure there's another person interested? The phonecall from the estate agent sounds like an attempt to railroad you into buying if you ask me. How long have you been looking and how likely are you to find something similar/more suitable in the area?

I'd do some sums and work out the absolute minimum number of liveries you could take on to keep the burden on the grass as low as possible. Could you find other ways to make it work e.g rent out some of the stables for storage to generate an income without affecting the grass or incurring extra costs?

 

[chaps89]

Would a half way house work? Not sure how many horses you have yourself, but maybe 1 or 2 liveries instead of 4 or 5? They'd still bring in £ but you'd have a more reasonable number for the land?

If it's clay you shouldn't be short on grass come spring which helps, but may well need to do some serious maintenance after winter, not so problematic if you've got machinery. But I definitley see why you're on the fence, you wouldn't want to be overstocking it either. I'm all for winter turnout but it needs to be enjoyable for the horses, standing in a mud swamp for hours isn't enjoyable.

How about rehab liveries? They wouldn't need turnout/only limited turnout? Means a regular turnover of horses/owners vs longstanding liveries, but maybe you find a livery who fits in with your mum/mum's horse then rehab for the rest? If you have time to do controlled walking etc too? (Presuming if you have competition horses you have the experience!)

 

[SEL]

I walked away from a yard with that amount of acreage on clay for just 4-5 horses. The owner kept telling me it was fantastic drainage, but it hadn't had horses on it for about 4 years when I saw it. One of the local freelancers used to work there though and told me it poached very, very quickly when it just had ponies on it.

Personally I think your liveries will be on here moaning about lack of winter turnout if you go ahead!

 

[Gingerwitch]

Is there any other grazing you could rent ? 6 acres and 10 horses for all year round turnout is asking an awful lot of the land.
I also don't think it's healthy for you to sacrifice your horses welfare fohr you liveries, it could easily lead to an atmosphere and resentment all round.

 

[wren123]

I'd take what the estate agent with a pinch of salt, how long has it been on the market?
To manage it with ten horses, you'd have to limit turnout and feed hay all year round, not ideal.

 

[southerncomfort]

Sell the machinery and use the funds to divide the land in two - summer and winter grazing. Replace machinery as and when you can afford to.

To be honest you do need a bit of cash in the coffers when you buy an equestrian property. Their will always be things needing to be fixed or improved.

 

[Ownedby4horses]

Having had a property on clay, unless you can put tracks in and/or winter turnout paddocks and reduce the amount of liveries you have, it would be a no from me.

 

[hock]

I’d be lead by the grazing, in time everything else can be improved. If the grazing isn’t right I’d pass on it.

 

[Goldenstar]

You can spilt the fields by fencing walkways around the edge of the L .
Or look at a track system there will be a way .
It sounds like a package that will be hard to equal in that sort of location .
You also should consider that on the downs you will have good drainage in the fields .
and ten stables does not need to qual ten horses and if you package for competition type riders you can make stabled part of the day all year .
In time hardstanding would be a great anyway .
Think hard before you walk away .

 

[HeyMich]

Yep, I agree with GS. Direct access to hacking on the South Downs, stabes and a school already there... think very carefully before you walk away! Sounds utterly amazing. Splitting the fields and partial turnout can be done. Magically connecting to a fabulous hacking area can't be!

 

[AmyMay]

It would be a no from me due to the limited grazing available.

 

[Scotsbadboy]

Do you intend on having ten horses? (sorry ive not read the replies) I think you'd be mad to walk away from this, especially if you dont have ten horses (going on the one horse per acre guideline) If this property sings to you then you got to go for it and then post pics and make us all jealous

 

[myheartinahoofbeat]

I would ignore the estate agents comment, they are justifying to get it sold and I doubt there is anyone else interested. You said yourself you thought it was a no no and changed your mind because of the agents comments. The grazing would kill it for me if you are planning on having liveries although rehab livery could work if you do box rest

 

[SpotsandBays]

Sounds great! However, that’s a lot of horses for that amount of land. Do you have to have that many livery’s, if any at all?

 

[Sprig]

I wouldn't buy it. That's nowhere near enough land for that number of horses.

 

[windand rain]

Sounds ideal to me but then I wouldnt want that many horses in livery anyway, Certainly would not be doing DIY, I think you would get away with 7 horses or 8 ponies on the land out a lot as short spells out damages the land. On a good year you would likely get hay off it too
After all just because you have 10 boxes it doesnt mean you have to fill them