WWYD?

[QuantockHills]

I'd walk away i'm afraid.... with that amount of grazing, you'd be only looking at 3-4 horses and if i was looking for livery, I would want my horse out every day... i've got 1 horse and 1 pony on 3 acres... at the moment i would like more land as it's so wet, i don't want it trashed.

 

[meleeka]

I wouldn’t offer DIY full stop. A local competition yard offers 1 hour turnout through the winter and always has a waiting list, so I think it depends on the rest of it. A friend has a similar set up and her fields are sectioned off so that two get absolutely trashed in winter. She puts a couple of round hay out in those fields. She also only has 7 or 5 day liveries, which means she can afford to sort the land out come Spring. If you are South Downs way I’m won’t be a million miles away and I think you’d struggle to find exactly what you want.

 

[maisie06]

Before I start, I would just like to say I know what an unbelievably lucky position I'm in. This has been an ongoing dream of mine for a long time now and it's so nearly in reach.

Cutting a very long story short, I went to look at a property yesterday. 10 great stables, amazing school, nice horse walker, direct access to south downs way. Lovely current owner willing to leave me all his machinery behind as part of the deal. The only issue is the grazing. There is only 6 1/2 acres (one large field currently) and it's laid out in such a way that would make it difficult to section off.

I'm currently able to offer asking price with the owners kind offer of leaving me the machinery (I would have to offer lower otherwise). I was aware that there was someone else interested, they are able to offer asking price + want to buy the machinery.

I'd sort of made up my mind last night that the grazing made it a no go sadly. This morning I've had a call from the estate agent, the owner really liked me and has said he would like me to have first refusal (at asking price with the machinery included).

I'm really torn at what to do. It would work perfectly if I just had my own horses and could chuck them all out together ( I'm also not that bothered about turnout for my working horses anyway, they get ridden 2x a day and go on the walker 1x, although turnout would still be preferable). However, I would have to have at least 4-5 liverys to make it viable.

It was such an amazing yard and everything other than turnout was perfect. I'm just worried about the marketability of it to potential liverys.

So wise beings of HHO; what would you do? I feel like I'm being slightly fanciful to think it could work. The stables are blue though! I'd love blue stables

With amazing hacking and walker plus good school could you aim at full livery for competition horses who don't need so much turnout?

 

[gallopingby]

Before I start, I would just like to say I know what an unbelievably lucky position I'm in. This has been an ongoing dream of mine for a long time now and it's so nearly in reach.

Cutting a very long story short, I went to look at a property yesterday. 10 great stables, amazing school, nice horse walker, direct access to south downs way. Lovely current owner willing to leave me all his machinery behind as part of the deal. The only issue is the grazing. There is only 6 1/2 acres (one large field currently) and it's laid out in such a way that would make it difficult to section off.

I'm currently able to offer asking price with the owners kind offer of leaving me the machinery (I would have to offer lower otherwise). I was aware that there was someone else interested, they are able to offer asking price + want to buy the machinery.

I'd sort of made up my mind last night that the grazing made it a no go sadly. This morning I've had a call from the estate agent, the owner really liked me and has said he would like me to have first refusal (at asking price with the machinery included).

I'm really torn at what to do. It would work perfectly if I just had my own horses and could chuck them all out together ( I'm also not that bothered about turnout for my working horses anyway, they get ridden 2x a day and go on the walker 1x, although turnout would still be preferable). However, I would have to have at least 4-5 liverys to make it viable.

It was such an amazing yard and everything other than turnout was perfect. I'm just worried about the marketability of it to potential liverys.

So wise beings of HHO; what would you do? I feel like I'm being slightly fanciful to think it could work. The stables are blue though! I'd love blue stables

 

[gallopingby]

How many horses do you need to have? Decent hacking is always a bonus. Its not always the highest bidder that wins, depends why / who the seller wants sometimes. Where are they moving to? Will there be any conditions in the deeds?

 

[9tails]

Too little grazing, sorry. You just can't get around it, it's not big enough for the number of horses you need to break even.

 

[Not_so_brave_anymore]

Any outside-the-box options to make up the income without so many liveries? Shorter term schooling/sales/foaling liveries? Arena hire?

Would you sacrifice almost all grazing for your own horses in order to give the liveries more? All weather turnout would help with this.

I feel the grazing/turnout situation is only get worse with climate change. Wetter winters, ground destroyed, drier summers, grass never recovers

 

[Gingerwitch]

Doggie day care, turn 4 stables into heated garage for super dooper car peep's.
Rehab livery. Tean up with a local b and b for riding short breaks. 2 prior full liveries plus your own ?

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Just wanted to add. Thank you everyone for suggestions! I really do appreciate it and don't want to come across as too negative. I just want to make sure all of the worst case scenarios are thought of in my head!

Tbh I wouldn't want to livery somewhere with 10 horses on 6.5 acres, that would be seriously over stocked

 

[Jellymoon]

As someone in clay country, I would be v worried about 10 horses and 6.5 acres.
However, I’m a big fan of lots of turnout, and I think a lot of horse owners are also going that way these days. There’s much in the horsey press at the moment about horses being allowed adequate turnout for welfare. Liveries are getting more demanding about this, as far as I can tell from friends who run yards.
Also, I do think it’s unlikely that the seller wants you to have the house over the person offering more money because he likes you. Sounds like estate agent speak to me. Either there is no other buyer, or the buyer is not is as good a position financially as you, perhaps still had somewhere to sell.

It sounds heaven to me though, but I’d ditch the liveries and think of another way to make money!!

 

[Ample Prosecco]

Sounds like our yard! Very restricted turnout in winter but otherwise very good faciltiies. I have often daydreamed of taking over the yard and I would not have liveries. We run clinics 3-5 times a week and extermal people also book the arena privately. YO charges 10 an hour per person and it is always busy. She probably gets £300 a week in from arena hire. Or you could offer full livery only with restricted turnout all year round. Competition types might mind less as their horses will be in full work and livery could include 30 mins on the horse walker every day and exercise.

 

[eggs]

Ignore the estate agent - probably just trying to get a sale before year end. Never heard of an owner being happy to take less money than another prospective buyer just because they 'liked you better'.

It could potentially work with competition liveries that would be happy with less turnout but it would also be more work. Have you confirmed that you are able to run a livery business from the property and calculated the additional insurance and rates costs?

 

[Parrotperson]

Before I start, I would just like to say I know what an unbelievably lucky position I'm in. This has been an ongoing dream of mine for a long time now and it's so nearly in reach.

Cutting a very long story short, I went to look at a property yesterday. 10 great stables, amazing school, nice horse walker, direct access to south downs way. Lovely current owner willing to leave me all his machinery behind as part of the deal. The only issue is the grazing. There is only 6 1/2 acres (one large field currently) and it's laid out in such a way that would make it difficult to section off.

I'm currently able to offer asking price with the owners kind offer of leaving me the machinery (I would have to offer lower otherwise). I was aware that there was someone else interested, they are able to offer asking price + want to buy the machinery.

I'd sort of made up my mind last night that the grazing made it a no go sadly. This morning I've had a call from the estate agent, the owner really liked me and has said he would like me to have first refusal (at asking price with the machinery included).

I'm really torn at what to do. It would work perfectly if I just had my own horses and could chuck them all out together ( I'm also not that bothered about turnout for my working horses anyway, they get ridden 2x a day and go on the walker 1x, although turnout would still be preferable). However, I would have to have at least 4-5 liverys to make it viable.

It was such an amazing yard and everything other than turnout was perfect. I'm just worried about the marketability of it to potential liverys.

So wise beings of HHO; what would you do? I feel like I'm being slightly fanciful to think it could work. The stables are blue though! I'd love blue stables

make. it. work! I would. find a way. Theres a lot to be said for electric fencing you know!

I'm sure there's a way round sorting the turnout. and with everything else going for it I'd have a horse there! School, excellent hacking, nice stables etc.

 

[TheMule]

With such little land you would have to factor in putting in all weather turnout pens. So make an offer that will allow you to do that

 

[ihatework]

This is all going to depend on what type of livery you are going to offer and what else is available locally.

There is no way around the fact it’s insufficient land to cater for the leisure market. The full livery competition market might accept it if everything else is good and there are no better alternatives locally.

But really all you are going to be able to offer on that kind of acreage is small paddocks, very restricted through winter, and probably doubling up with one set of horses out in day, one set out at night over summer.

It’s not something I’d want if it were a property I was buying personally and wanting to set up livery.

Alternatively you could try and explore options where your livery clients don’t need proper turnout. Maybe something like box rest & rehab.

 

[PeterNatt]

Far too little grazing for that number of horses. I would just have it for myself with no liveries.

 

[southerncomfort]

OP said 4 or 5 liveries so I was assuming maximum 6 horses.

Any more than that and I think you'd really struggle.

 

[windand rain]

I have 4.5 acres and 5 ponies living out 24/7 so think if they were in you could add a few more we have grass year round and use very little hay we are lucky in it is sandy soil on the winter grazing at the top of the field and clay under sand at the bottom of the hill So agree that it might be harder on clay year round but the rules for grazing is 2 acres for first horse and 1 per horse to include hay. Biggest issue for me would be individual turnout as that makes it harder. Mine live in herds new ones added to which one they settle in

 

[The Xmas Furry]

Is it 6.5 acres in total, or; yard, arena, parking etc plus 6.5 acres?
Asking, as if it's a 6,5 acre plot, you'll have maybe 5.5 acres at absolute best for grazing.

Through a summer, I've had up to 14 ranging over 10 acres, cutting to 6 or 7 on my own 4.5 acres in winter and that's with all in overnight and out in day with hay supplementing. This is on sandy ground. (The rented summer grazing was adjacent, on mostly peat, so was unusable in winter months as went partly under water)

Unless planning half day turnout max, you'll struggle with 10 on such a small acreage

 

[thefarsideofthefield]

Tell the estate agent the truth - that you are looking for a property that can sustain a business and that this one does not have enough acreage to cater for the number of liveries you need in order to make it viable . Tell him that you really like the property ( big sigh ! ) and that if it were cheaper you could possibly make it work with fewer liveries but that at the current price you just can't make the numbers add up . You haven't actually said no , you're not haggling as such . Sound a bit wistful ! Then leave the ball in his court and see if he comes back with a better price .
NB And don't get caught out , do your sums and be prepared - just in case he asks you what you CAN afford !

 

[HashRouge]

As others have said, how many horses are you thinking in total? You say 4-5 liveries, you mention that you have horses plural, and I also saw some mention of your Mum's horse? So I assume it's going to be at least 8. I think the grazing will be really tight and you'll need to restrict all year. If you'd have direct access to the South Downs Way I'd assume you're in the same sort of area as me and you'd have had a nightmare with that little acreage over the last 12 months - the wettest winter I've ever known, followed by virtually no rain between the end of March and the beginning of August. The grass barely grew at all! There is also a lot of deep clay round here - depending on the area, you could find your land more or less unusable for much of the winter even if it's not overly wet. It's not so bad where I am atm but I used to be over near Horsham and I've never known such deep clay.

In all honesty it sounds like my idea of a nightmare and I would never even consider keeping my horse on a yard with that little turnout. You do run the risk of finding it's not very appealing to the leisure market (I think someone else mentioned this) as turnout tends to be quite high on peoples' list of priorities. And that's a big risk to take if you need the money to cover costs. You might have more luck running it as a competition livery where people don't expect as much turnout, but that would almost certainly mean offering full/ part livery. And you'd have no chance of 24/7 turnout in the summer, but I guess you know that?

In summary, no I wouldn't do it. Just imagine yourself in the middle of a very wet winter, with your paddocks turned to mud and all the horses stuck in for the foreseeable future....

 

[mariew]

I know everyone says it's not enough turnout but when I was in Surrey the yards that could have an acre / horse were few and far between. However, having experienced thick Essex clay I would say in winter it's near impossible to do 24/7 turn out unless you have a vast amount of land per horse. You might be able to get full liveries who are happy with a couple of hours out in the winter.

Or more seriously do the rent a stable for storage / lock up. No maintenance or work and possibly even same money! And keep the fields to yourself. I would stay away from DIY if you are relying on them for extra cash.

I guess just watch out how much money you would really make if you ran it properly, with insurance and business rates etc. It might not be worth the effort.

 

[Lois Lame]

It seems a shame to give it up.

First, I fully believe that the seller would prefer you over the other possible buyer.

How to get around lack of turnout though... a few competition liveries? Arena hire? The holding of clinics for amazing instructors?

 

[Michen]

Call me sinister but I don’t believe a word of what the estate agent has said. Clever tactic though, hearts and minds and all that..

 

[SatansLittleHelper]

Nope, it would be a cold day in hell before I'd try to do as you need to with so little land. I don't care if the horse is a hack or top competition horse, turnout is ESSENTIAL for physical and mental well being. If you can work out a way to finance it with far fewer liveries then great.

 

[Nudibranch]

I think the clay is the deal breaker for me. We are on clay. I have 2 on 9 acres over winter which is just about the limit of what it will stand without major maintenance. Certainly 3 horses would be pushing it - and mine aren't shod. They are out 24/7 though so if you restricted turnout it would help a little with the land.
A track system might work, but it would be hard work on clay without major investment. I wouldn't put my horses on livery with small paddocks or limited turnout - but then again I'm in the rural north so it's not something I have to consider.
Don't forget our climate is changing. Milder and wetter. That is having a big impact on clay soils.