XC jumping technique, What would you want to see in a green horse?

[charlimouse]

Or more to the point what would make you say no way, never taking that horse XC again ! I'm thinking more from a technique point of view assuming the horse will jump what is put infront of it. This is a picture of Millie my little TB mare the first time she ever went XC (many moons ago)

Would this technique have put you off? Now at the time I was too ignorant to think otherwise , Milllie jumped the jumps so as far as i was concerned was good to go , and go she did all the way up to CCI* with no XC jumping penelties ever.

And what about this? Would you want to see the forelegs snapped up more, bearing in mind he is a green TB (ex hurdler) at a very early stage in his XC schooling

Or would you only ever consider a horse who really tucked the front leg up similar to this?

Sorry for the random musings. In an ideal world all horses would really tuck up their front legs, but to what degree should dangly legs be considered for a XC horse, and does this change as the horse gets more experiance?

 

[RachelFerd]

Interesting thread. Of my three 'eventers' they have all had very different styles.

I think the general rule of thumb is that the first section of the foreleg should really be horizontol or higher. On that principle your two greys would be fine, and the bay wouldn't be.

Bizarelly that would also mean that my two greys are good, and my bare mare isn't.

Here is my bar mare first time XC:

She is bold and will jump anything, but would not be the safest thing on four legs. With plenty of gridwork she did improve, although I think she will always have a tendency to dangle the lower leg.

My grey boy second time XC:

Not perfect, but much better than the mare! He is also inclined to jump in a much better shape and give a lot more height. He *feels* absolutely safe to ride over a solid fence.

Equally it is fair to say that can improve A LOT ... look at the difference between Ferdie first time XC schooling -

And jumping at Novice BE level about 3 yrs later... His front leg technique became absolutely PERFECT over time.

 

[kerilli]

those wouldn't worry me, knees pointing towards the floor would though, big-time.
the main thing that makes me stop riding a horse xc (and i've given up 2 rides for owners because of this exact thing) is a horse that makes a bad mistake, comes round again, and makes exactly the same one.
in both cases: xc schooling, nicely warmed up, jumping well, no hiccups, all fine to that point... horse then inexplicably added an extra stride in a 1-stride distance (about Intro height) and buried itself, wore the fence on the way up, only just stood up. came back around, i again rode the fence positively for 1 stride... horse added 1 again. wore it again.
end of xc career with me. no thanks.
the other warning sign for me is a horse who doesn't notice when you change the height of a fence, say you jump it at 3' a few times, and then put it up to 3'6", and the horse jumps it as if it's 3', first time, every time, and THEN notices that you put it up... i want the horse to notice and react, not make mistakes before it notices.

 

[only_me]

I think a lot of jumps can be improved!
When I first got Merlin, he had dangly legs and never really snapped up, but really improved after a couple of years of consistent work! He hadn't a pole down in nearly 2 years with me, competing up to 1.20m.
Before

After.

However he was at the end of the day too careful for xc - he spent 1 second too long in the air over each fence and that soon adds up!!

Billy on the other hand, has a normal technique for a green horse.

I am not so interested in technique (although if I saw a horse with knees low I wouldn't touch) knees have to be horizontal or above, am much more interested in the horse's athletiscm, forward thinkingness and their scope

 

[LEC]

I do not care about technique but they have to jump up through their withers. They have to use their backs and necks. if that is all there naturally the rest will come.
If a horse left a leg and did not learn from it I would not ride them again. They also have to feel scopey and like there is more to come. I rode one a while ago who was terrifying because he felt like he had no talent. It just did not come up through the withers. I would not have jumped it bigger than an intro.

 

[BronsonNutter]

Judging by the reaction of the majority of people on here last time I put XC photos up, you don't want it to look like this

Oddly enough though I never feel unsafe XC on him - he's only ever once hit a solid fence (buried him completely and he had to scramble) - but he does struggle with SJs as, with his legs being naturally dangly, the minute he fights the hand round a corner (falling out through the shoulder when jumping is his favourite trick...) coming into a fence and raises his head, he can't pick up as well.

I'd like them to pay attention to what they're doing though - keen with ears pricked is good, backing off to look is okay for the first few times, but charging at them flat out is scary!

 

[BEUnderTheInfluence]

To be honest you can critique the angles of knees and the bends until you're blue in the face and they do matter, but the first thing I look for in a safe XC horse is that it is quick off the ground, snaps up and can react and adjust. I'd rather have a razor sharp clever nippy horse that seems to 'snap' over the fences than a big strong slow off the ground seemingly scopey horse as it takes a fraction of a second for them to adjust if something is going horribly wrong and some can't, some can.

Its a funny thing, I'd say the safest and best XC horse in the world is opposition buzz and yet he doesn't fit any of our normal "criteria" hehe

 

[stencilface]

Its a funny thing, I'd say the safest and best XC horse in the world is opposition buzz and yet he doesn't fit any of our normal "criteria" hehe

Ditto this - doesn't really matter what angle his knees are at, he's generally at least 2ft over the fence anyway!

Mine has a v tidy action over fences (imho!) and although I didn't get a pic of my first jump on him when I tried him out, he has had the same style since being a 5yo.

aged 6

aged 9

 

[cundlegreen]

I personally like to see the front legs folded right up. This picture of one of my homebreds was taken in her first season. Both the parents jump the same way.

What would bother me, was if one leg was significantly lower than the other.

 

[Ali16]

Really interesting hearing different people's opinions on this..

I agree that you want a horse to jump through it's withers and use it's neck and back, but most of all I look for a horse to be sharp as hell off the floor. I was really lucky with my number one beastie.. not the best technique in the world, but has never yet hit a XC fence, even when I buried him at the third in the 2* at Gatcombe

Here he is as a 6yo - his first season eventing. He jumped every fence like this until he truely learnt what XC was about!

And here he is last year at his first Intermediate as an 8yo.. much more style (and much quicker through the air - thank goodnes!)

 

[Firewell]

When I very first started jumping J I was a bit worried as he could just fall though a SJ and not even be bothered by it although he would try the 2nd time, he was just so baby and I was worried his jumping scope was limited.
Then one day it just clicked for him and by god he can be quick with his legs, like one of my friends said 'he can do truely magical things with his legs', he's a good SJ'er because he will go clear over a fence even if I bury him or he misses a stride. He gives the XC jumps tons of room and he really lifts his knees up, he's just got to learn to be economical now. I feel safe because he is so quick with his legs, surprising as he has the longest legs in the world!
For the level I ride at it wouldn't matter if the horse was a bit dangly as long as they had something about them to get over the fence clear!

 

[woodlandswow]

the big problem i had with my horse is exactly those pointers - he is 7 and didnt pick up xc, resulting in a very close shave to a rotational fall.. luckily and unluckily for me the BE SW saftey guy was watching and told me after that he didnt want to see me again until my horse could jump. at the time i was really upset, but looking back it wwas the best thing that happned.
now after lots of schooling and training - flatwork impprovement has helped hugley and also putting no boots on when schooling, meaning he is now jumping better shape and style over all.. and we dont hit any

he went from being leggy like this

http://images.jamespyne.co.uk/?Action=VF&id=5868123602&ppwd=vd2191ms

to this last weekend - best time i had ever xc, purley as he was keen, sharp but most of all jumping thhemm all properly!
http://images.jamespyne.co.uk/?Action=VF&id=6959908802&ppwd=vd2191ms

(doesnt look too much better looking back, but it felt 1 million x better!)

 

[Lolo]

What makes Reg as good XC as he is, aside from being bold and brave, is that he thinks about what he's being asked to jump. I think he's always jumped like this:

With higher knees and slightly dangly forelimbs. He's never hit anything though, and if he gets in close he snaps up very tightly. I don't think it's dangerous- he's very clever with his legs and I think the years of point-to-pointing have made him very clever at assessing fences quickly and jumping over them safely. I'm less worried watching him go XC than when Al went on her old ponies who did tuck up perfectly!

 

[kirstyhen]

This is what made me look at Mally...

I love everything about the way she jumps. She's kept it under saddle too, this was her first time XC schooling over fences...

And if she gets it wrong or needs to make an extra effort she just picks them up higher!

I like snappy horses, I hate it when the leave their shoulder and upper foreleg down as they jump. Makes me nervy and they I can't ride!

 

[kirstyhen]

Ah can't edit on my phone, this was the other picture

 

[Bearsmum]

Found this really interesting and must confess it's not something I'd thought of seriously looking at before. Found an early picture of Bear loose jumping and was quite pleased with how tidy he was, he continued to be very carfeful and I honestly can't remember him hitting anything.

Whether he'd have been quick enough to make a decent eventer I don't know though.

 

[OneInAMillion]

These knees make me feel safe

He is seriously careful - I could count on my fingers the amount of poles he's had down in 5 years. Pretty good XC too - I'll try to find a picture

 

[lynds81]

One of the best horses I have ever ridden XC generally has dangly legs in photos. However, he also has tons of self preservation and can be as clever as a cat XC (not bad for a 17.2hh TB!) and I've never had a dodgy moment over a solid fence. Just a shame he doesn't respect SJ as much.

In contrast, I had one that made the perfect bascule shape over every fence, but didn't care if he hit them and had no self preservation. Scopey? Yes. Capable? Yes. Safe? NO WAY!!

I think it's about attitude and not necessarily technique - if a horse leaves legs and hits fences all the time then I wouldn't like it, but more because it's not thinking and trying to avoid that happening again then anything else...

 

[goneshowjumping]

i have been following this post with interest as my boy (a ex racer never jumped) has dangly legs in front, yet when I took him XC he snapped his legs up really well, yet showjumping we seem to have 4 fault-itis!!!! he is not careful with his legs, yet XC he is fab. seeing some of these pics reminds me of him, and I would love him to tuck up more when SJ and im hoping that comes, as he is only 5 and only been jumping 8 months, and its comforting to know that others have this same issue, yet feel their horses are ok to jump. i will carry on with my little horror and hope his technique improves!