XC water problem

[morrismob]

Hi
Would like some views on a horse who doesn't like jumps near or into water xc. We have owned him for nearly 4 years. He is 12 and was a dressage horse before taking up eventing. My daughter, his rider, is 17 and been riding all her life.

They have gone through from BE90 to Novice. His xc up to novice was his best phase. He will not jump into water or jump a jump just before it. This has resulted in elimination or retirement. Other than this he is a bold jumper and loves xc.

We have schooled him but apart from the odd hesitation he jumps well. Last week was his first event of the season and he did well in his dr and jumped extremely well sj in not ideal going ( Somerley ). On the xc course he jumped bodly and well until the water, jump straight in front of it, he stopped moving forward about 6 strides and would not even walk up to it, after 2nd refusal my daughter retired him.

Today we went to LMEQ and walked in the water, circling around in it and then through and then jumping the jump before it, through it and jumped out of it. He was fab, bold forward no hesitation. We have done this now many times but on a course he just shuts down. Hand on heart I cannot see any difference in the way he is ridden. Any ideas would be much appreciated as he has a lot of ability but just cannot work this out. Daughter has 2 other horses and no problem ( touch wood ).

 

[be positive]

I had one very similar, he would go into water happily but refused to jump into it or nearly into it when competing, schooling was never a problem especially if he had already "tested the water" and gained confidence before being asked to jump in, I never got him over it and at novice you rarely find a course where you do not have a water question, just running through was never an issue, so I gave up and did other things with him. Not much help for you but thought it may help to know there are other horses with the same view and that despite trying everything it sometimes is the horse and there is little the rider can do to alter the outcome.

A couple of things to try, if you haven't already, can you take him behind another horse and go straight into the water without letting him get his feet wet first? will he go in schooling without having to walk through first? can he jump a few fences then kick on at canter straight in on an easy route? drop back to 100 for a few runs to see if a couple of really confidence boosting outings will help, not much more to add as I think some horses just lack the trust required to really feel safe jumping something they are unsure about, they tend to love water, tolerate it or have a certain amount of fear for it, the fearful ones may never be brave enough to overcome it, unless they become more fearful of the rider but that is a different story and not really recommended.

We had one horse here recently who loved water, he would take hold and almost charge into it, I felt he was disappointed if there was only one water on a course, he did one event with three water crossings and was getting more cocky with each one, sadly not all horses have the same attitude.

 

[paddi22]

is it because he's approaching the water at speed during a comp? if he walks into it during schooling maybe he just can't 'read' it properly at speed?
or else daughter is tensing before it - does he do it with another rider?

years ago heard of a young horse with a similar problem and the owner turned him out in a field with a few small rivers going across it that he had to cross. Apparently it cured the horse!

 

[morrismob]

Thanks for your replies. We have taken him schooling and into the water without wetting his toes, apart from the odd stop he has jumped every time. We spent most of last season schooling each and everyway. We dropped him back down to 100 last season and other than Brightling, jump before water, he has done well ending with 3rd at chilham 100+ but there the jump was alongside the water before a turn in.

 

[Goldenstar]

I have dealt with this with a grade A
It took a lot of schooling and we never fully cracked it .
I got her through novice and moved on it was always going to be an issue .
I found I had to school a lot in as many places as possible .
I had to say jump five fences then present at the water go through once go on jump more fences then come back to the water .
Going walking through water and building up to the more difficult routes made no difference what's so ever .
I would recommend you book a couple of days at a really good XC training centre with a good XC trainer and get some advice , I wish I had done this with mine I messed up with her .

 

[gunnergundog]

Yard rider took over a horse two years ago; said horse had issues with water. EVERY day for over a year that horse was walked through the river, taken swimming, taken somewhere with a water jump, or asked in some way to get its feet wet. It is now going consistantly clear at 2*. I think a lot depends on the facilities open to you as to how realistic it is to expect to overcome such problems. We are lucky in having a ford-able river on the farm; if you had to go and hire somewhere I think the odds on being able to do this often enough are slim.

To add, although not nearly so intensive, the horse is still weekly exposed to water in some shape or from!

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

I had one like this, but his problem was water of any sort, including water troughs and puddles, I tried everything including a weekend of full on training, but he still stopped in competition, and out hunting would often jump puddles which were obviously puddles, I think he might have had an accident as he had an old injury, but I used to even struggle to get him out of his stable if it had been raining!
He would jump a water after one or two refusals or if he knew the jump. It was not just me, I sold him as a hack [to a dealer it turned out] and saw him stop at a water jump I was judging at!

 

[AnShanDan]

Yard rider took over a horse two years ago; said horse had issues with water. EVERY day for over a year that horse was walked through the river, taken swimming, taken somewhere with a water jump, or asked in some way to get its feet wet. It is now going consistantly clear at 2*. I think a lot depends on the facilities open to you as to how realistic it is to expect to overcome such problems. We are lucky in having a ford-able river on the farm; if you had to go and hire somewhere I think the odds on being able to do this often enough are slim.

To add, although not nearly so intensive, the horse is still weekly exposed to water in some shape or from!

Think this is the most likely "cure" for a horse like yours, annoyingly. I had a good friend whose daughter's horse was like this, he would school OK (not perfectly, but she could get him in on the second attempt) and he would normally run in as opposed to jump, at a competition, so he was OK at 100, but for Novice it was a real problem and many times he was E or R.

They kept at it for a couple of years, as his flatwork and SJ were so good, and he could def. jump, but water was an issue for him. The jockey had another horse at Intermediate, so she could ride, but I do think it was partly her, she had let the horse get into her brain a bit. They even tried going XC schooling on the way to an event once, so he had been into water on the day, but he still stopped on the actual course.

Anyway, they finally sold him, and he is still going well but only at 90/100.

Sorry, but I agree that taking him for a couple of intensive days with a really good trainer might help you make up your minds.

 

[ester]

I also wondered just out of interest whether you always walk through first when schooling?

 

[blackhor2e]

I think water is an incredibly hard issue to overcome without daily exposure, slightly like ditches. I have a horse at intermediate level and he is by all purposes a wuss when it comes to water i.e dodging puddles, but I think the adrenaline involved in the xc phase really helps us. By the sounds of it the adrenaline that helps us may be hindering your daughter? Have you ever tried any mild calmers? Maybe take him xc schooling after a couple of weeks to let one into his system? I'm thinking perhaps with a bit less adrenaline flowing through his system he may not be so frightened at the water jump.
I'm not suggesting you dope him up to the eyeballs, just something to take the edge off.

 

[ihatework]

I had a theory about one of my horses who was a bit dodgy with water. I might be wrong or I might have been right (and I'm not suggesting this is necessarily a problem for yours).

My horse was generally pretty bold/genuine. Certainly wasn't a stopper. The 2 things he wobbled about were jumps directly off a drop or drops into water. He was fine with regular drops and those where the drop was blind.

We struggled for years with bilateral low grade front feet lameness. Was eventually diagnosed as navicular syndrome, but I suspect was low grade laminitis (given his cushings diagnosis at 15).

In retrospect I think he was just cautious of landing on sore feet when he couldnt gauge the depth of water or height of drop. As soon as he had walked into water (which he never hesitated about) he would immediately be fine with dropping into

 

[gunnergundog]

Just thought of something else..........back in the late 80's a well known eventer held the theory that horses often hold their breath through fear when going through water. This is often not a problem when at the lower levels, but as they progress and things become more complicated/they have to spend more time doing multiple jump efforts in the water etc etc, so the problems manifest.

This individual used to take a horse (and a packet of cigarettes) and spend however long it took, just STOOD or walking/splashing around in the water - no jumping in or out, just standing, drinking, splashing and SMOKING!

 

[morrismob]

Hi

Thanks for all your replies, we have tried most things. We are keeping him at 100 for now, it was just Somerley had the fence before the water. We are at SofE this weekend and will try sloshing his legs with water before xc as have heard it has helped some. Will report back

 

[millitiger]

Have heard the wet boots theory too.

I had one who was cautious at water (didn't stop though) and what really worked for her was xc schooling the day before the event so it was fresh in her brain, she was super bold once we started this regime.

 

[smja]

Mine used to hate getting his feet wet - a trip to a flooded beach for cantering about/splashing around and sloshing his legs a couple of times before xc has worked a treat. He happily jumped straight down the step into the water at Stafford a few weeks ago, no sloshing required anymore

 

[unicornystar]

I have exactly the same problem with water and reasonably size ditches/Trakaners.....(excuse spelling).

Will jump anything that looks like a jump, very bold. Will walk in rivers/puddles etc whatever you ask when out hacking.

Put him on a course, and approaching a water complex, backs off, goes up, without fail, he isnt nappy towards home as will happily continue over the rest of the jumps!

I have tried walking towards to give him time, have tried it at speed at home in woods camtering
into very wide and deep long puddles, absolutely fine....it seems competition related and i dont get nervous.....

it is very frustrating as he is a poppet and very honest so this is definately fear rather than being a ****!! x

 

[pinkypug1]

I know you say you don't see your daughter ride him any differently but perhaps she is preempting the stop when competing and subconsciously triggering a lack of confidence in the horse. Would it help to get a local xc trainer/rider to take the horse for a few weeks and school and maybe do a few comps to see how the horse reacts then?

 

[FfionWinnie]

When schooling do you treat it like a competition and approach it at competition speed from the first time onwards?

I would take to the beach and any other available water and approach at as much speed as is possible (just be careful it's safe so you might need to get your Wellies on to check things out before she goes through!). Do that as much as possible along with some XC lessons with someone good and completely explain the problem before you start so they have thought about how to deal with it. I don't think walking through first will get you anywhere. Competition atmosphere has to be recreated as much as possible.

Then, can you do a pairs competition with a water happy horse and see if that breaks the deadlock as well.

 

[Pebble101]

I had one very similar, he would go into water happily but refused to jump into it or nearly into it when competing, schooling was never a problem especially if he had already "tested the water" and gained confidence before being asked to jump in, I never got him over it and at novice you rarely find a course where you do not have a water question, just running through was never an issue, so I gave up and did other things with him. Not much help for you but thought it may help to know there are other horses with the same view and that despite trying everything it sometimes is the horse and there is little the rider can do to alter the outcome.

.

This is so similar to my horse. I have a stream I cross a couple of times a week on a hack. He isn't frightened of water, he will go through it without a problem after heavy rain when it is past his knees and running fast. I used to try and trot him through it (when normal levels) but first time he always wants to test it out in walk to make sure it's safe and then he is fine. Same with jumps into water or just before if he can't see the landing. Just because he had done a particular jump/water before makes no difference, he has to have done it on that day it seems. After 13 years he is a bit better than he used to be but he needs strong confident riding and it only works when jumps are small.

 

[ajn1610]

I've not read any responses but it sounds as if he is happy in water during training and at the lower levels but now he is being asked to jump into an unfamiliar water fence he is downing tools and this has now started to incorporate A elements or fences before the water as well. Is that right? My suggestions for what their worth....!
Try moving straight to jumping into schooling waters he knows without the preliminary walk/trot through, might help him get over himself by pushing his buttons a bit but in a situation he should still be comfortable with. Do as much water schooling as humanly possible, every day if you can, even if it's just pottering through streams and puddles to keep his confidence up with it in general.
Take plastic block and poles to your local XC so you can construct tiny tiny fences before, into and in the water that she can have him step over in walk if necessary, if he is good to lunge and it's safe to do so you could also lunge him over them so he only has to sort himself out and it doesn't get into a big bust up with your daughter. I've done this successfully with a ditchy horse, it's really really hard to keep a positive frame of mind and approach when history has taught you it's going to be a problem and I think they smell doubt even if you aren't changing how you ride the approach.
Get a good pro to give him a spin, preferably round an unaff so it's not on anyone's record. Not necessarily that your daughter is doing anything wrong but a change of circumstances can break the cycle.
Are you sure there isn't something about the water fences that is causing him a physical issue? My Mums horse started stopping on downward steps and into water and it turns out she had Kissing Spines, fine to jump on a level surface or up hill but it obviously kicked in and caused pain when she had to jump down or on a downwards slope which is how most steps and waters are located.

Other than that it might just be this particular horses telling you he's gone as far as he is happy with in which case you have to decide if you are happy competing at a level he is performing well at or move him on to someone who is. Best of luck with sorting it.

 

[morrismob]

As promised an update: Today we were at Sof E in the 100, there was a jump before the water and then a jump after, eek ! He got his best ever dr score of 32.5, 2 down sj which was a shame but happens. I chucked loads of water over his legs and hosed his tummy. He flew the xc including the water, unheard of and gained 5 marks for going too fast but rider was out to prove appoint. We shall chuck water over his legs again. Wont be sure he's "cured" but today was a huge step in the right direction

 

[ester]

wow! brilliant!

 

[MagicMelon]

Can you try and do a few hunter paces? At least with those, its "competing" to the horse but really its just training in a way and they tend to let you have much longer at fences if you're having issues (I remember spending 30 mins at the water on one horse once at a hunter pace, I just moved out of the way whenever a horse approached!). If you do that a few times, it might break the habit as you don't carry on until you get through it (and you dont get eliminated as such).

 

[morrismob]

Can you try and do a few hunter paces? At least with those, its "competing" to the horse but really its just training in a way and they tend to let you have much longer at fences if you're having issues (I remember spending 30 mins at the water on one horse once at a hunter pace, I just moved out of the way whenever a horse approached!). If you do that a few times, it might break the habit as you don't carry on until you get through it (and you dont get eliminated as such).

Hi, we tried this last year, our main problem was the height and difficulty. He is very happy to go through water, has almost a completely clean record at 100, it is when we went Novice and jumps into/before water became an issue. Hunter trials don't work as he's more than happy with them. Although we haven't found any that made his issue obvious, he was placed at riding club last season.

After today I think our dilemma is whether he wants to do it even with his ability the brain has to overcome his worries. He jumped well xc today, I also think the rider, my daughter, played her part and gave him a fantastic ride, we shall see how he goes as but today was a big step for them and thanks for all your replies they have really helped

 

[Goldenstar]

Fantastic news lets hope that is the answer .
I would school over water as close you can to each competition.