Yard owners asking us to support planning

[BexleyBarn]

I wonder if anyone on here can help; advice needed really.

Our yard owner wants to demolish some of the stables at our yard and build a house. There is a house already on site, but the new house will be for his son and wife, and their children.

We’ve been asked to support the planning application, as we’ve been promised new stables in return.

The thing is, there aren’t any new stables on the planning application. The application also states that the house should be given permission as it will result in ‘less built up appearance’.

I’m unsure what to do? Obviously I don’t want to annoy the yard owners by not supporting, but similarly their application is at odds with what we’ve been promised.

The yard is on greenbelt land, so im not sure how successful it will be anyway... I just don’t know what to do? Should I just support it and risk losing my stable, in the hope that future planning will be given for replacement stables?

 

[HEM]

I think I would sit down and have a chat with YO regarding the new stables, I don't think there's anything wrong with showing your concern before you support (or not supporting, whatever you decide). Although I don't think you necessary need planning for wooden 'buildings' on green belt... don't quote me on that.

Also I wouldn't hold your breathe on the green belt not being released, a certain percentage gets release each year or so depending on how much demand there is for housing in your area.

 

[BexleyBarn]

Thank you so much for the reply. The proposal is for a glass based structure, so probably along the same rules as a wooden one then....

I understand regarding greenbelt; it’s not as sacred as it once was. It’s a shame that it’s not safe from development. I’m not against the proposal, I’m just wary of supporting something that might make my boy homeless!!

 

[HEM]

I am not sure about glass, I think the wooden structures are allowed because they are classified as shelters or sheds for agricultural purposes.

It really is shocking isn't it! I think it does depend on your area though, more greenery = less likely to develop on green belt, less greenery/built up areas = more likely to build on green belt (because of the lack of other viable sites)

 

[splashgirl45]

a word of warning, similar happened to me, YO got permission to convert 2 barns to residential, our stables were in a part of one of the barns. YO told us not to worry she was having new stables built and would like ideas from us as to where everything should be, taps, storage etc. we sat down and put our ideas on paper .. what we then found out was she hadnt applied for planning permission. when she finally did it was turned down and we had the option of staying on grass livery, with no where to put horses if ill etc or going. we went!!!!!!!!! but ended up falling out with the YO as she only told us at the end of september we would have no stables for winter....it was extremely upsetting as both of us had older horses and mine was 23 and had advanced cushings so i was rushing around trying to find somewhere local....i would be very careful if your YO hasnt applied for planning as the planners will say you had stables and chose to knock them down.....which is more or less what our planning dept said

 

[ester]

I would imagine if he were to add ore stables on this application it defeats the argument of it looking less built up? Usually unless you are putting them in your garden any additional stables will need planning. Ours essentially are in our garden but it was previously part of the field so agricultural use and planning certainly required.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I am not sure about glass, I think the wooden structures are allowed because they are classified as shelters or sheds for agricultural purposes.

Full planning is most definitely needed for wooden stabling outwith the curtilage of a property, even outside of the green belt.

 

[BexleyBarn]

Thank you everyone for your replies.

That’s my worry; they have said that they have applied for planning for the house first. If that is agreed, then they will apply for planning for the stables.

I don’t know why but they said they couldn’t be on one application.

The house to be built is a glass based structure, perhaps it’s easier to obtain permission for glass? The stables they are knocking down are timber.

I guess only time will tell!

 

[splashgirl45]

that is exactly what my YO did and she said she tried about 3 times to get planning for stables and got turned down because one of the barns was used for stabling and storage and tack room so planners said she should not have converted the barn if she needed stables etc. so the same would apply to your situation, why do the stables have to be knocked down, why cant they apply for planning permission where they were going to build the fictionary new stables, i smell a rat!!!!!!! if i was you i would start looking around for somewhere else, as its happened to me i know what i would do....

 

[HEM]

Full planning is most definitely needed for wooden stabling outwith the curtilage of a property, even outside of the green belt.

this is what I mean if they apply for planning for house and then add the stables within?

But as OP has just said above "then they will apply for planning for the stables" so doesn't sound like that's what they were planning. I wouldn't risk the possibility of not having the stables rebuilt.

 

[Molasses]

If you're not comfortable supporting then don't, they can't force you and you can always plead that you did support if the YO asks, Council websites are notoriously awful and especially the planning applications and documents sections, they often don't upload documents or letters of objection/support or take months to do so, they're rather under resourced

 

[ihatework]

There is passively supporting by not objecting.

I think that’s what I would do, just smile and say the right things but stay out of it essentially. What will be, will be.

I’d have a back up plan available though as it wouldn’t surprise me if the stabling option was withdrawn!

 

[gina2201]

It's not uncommon to apply for one thing at a time. So as not to appear to be over developing in one go - so by doing in stages can mean its potentially more likely to get each planning stage passed. Also it could be down to cost as if they applied for both it obviously costs more and if it was refused for both they would to have resubmit individually anyway they have wasted fees.

 

[neddy man]

If bexley barn is the name of the yard change your name so the owner doesnt know you are posting. Yes timber stables do need planning ,is there space with easy access , drainage, muck removal, electric,water etc for them to build new stables that will not obstruct the view from and access to the new glass based construction, all things to consider. Sorry but i think it might be time to look for a new yard (quietly) but keep looking at the council planning website, it will show a decision date so you have a rough timetable to work to.

 

[AmyMay]

I like IHW's suggestion.

 

[Hack4fun]

Letters of support/opposition usually make little difference to planning decisions - they are taken according to the local planning policies.

 

[HeyMich]

Letters of support/opposition usually make little difference to planning decisions - they are taken according to the local planning policies.

Yes, this. Planning Authorities have to take material considerations into account - compliance within current planning policy, need for the development, traffic, air quality, noise, nuisance, ecology, hydrology, landscape/visual impact, recreational access, archaeology etc...

A letter of support, while being a nice gesture for the developer, is not going to sway a planning decision. However, it may make relations with your YO more pleasant in the meantime!

And yes, quite often these things are applied for in a piecemeal fashion. It may be that they apply for the stables following this application, but you would have to take the YO's word on this.

 

[Velcrobum]

We had to get full get full planning permission for a small American barn (wood) within the curtilage of our property. Likewise for my 20 x40 school. Be very ears open on this as you might find yourself stableless!!

 

[deb_l222]

There is passively supporting by not objecting.

I think that’s what I would do, just smile and say the right things but stay out of it essentially. What will be, will be.

I’d have a back up plan available though as it wouldn’t surprise me if the stabling option was withdrawn!

This in a nutshell. Why should you support someone else’s planning application? It would be like me planning an extension to my house and asking my friend to support it. Why would they?

Just stay neutral but have a plan in place if things go wrong with the stables.

 

[case895]

Unless you live next door, the planners won't pay attention to your support or objection.

 

[BexleyBarn]

Thank you all so much, fantastic replies. I feel much better about having my own opinion on this, and shan’t be supporting the application just yet. But like most of you have suggested, I shall quietly be on the look out for a new yard.

 

[neddy man]

When you live next door they dont always listen (money talks)

 

[Keith_Beef]

I don't have any idea what your YO is like, but I would take promises like this the same way as promises from an employer or a politician.

Unless both the new stabling and the house are on a single application, I wouldn't even offer to fart in support of it, let alone write a letter.

On the other hand, if they are both on the same application, I would certainly write a letter of support, to keep on YO's good side, even if (as others have mentioned above) planning authorities don't give them such letter much weight.

 

[mariew]

Depending on what part of the country you are in, it can be easier or harder to get planning through. At the moment our council is under so much preassure to provide housing that needing housing is becoming a "special circumstance" and greenbelt protection is no longer really relevant. A local site (in rural greenbelt) got permission to build a facility 2 x the original large size, and have just had permission for a massive executive house on the same place too. Prior to when the govt made it easier to convert agricultural buildings it was neigh on impossible to get planning in greenbelt for anything but replacing what was there (or smaller), now anything and everything is going through without much resistance. We've had at least 4 or 5 decent sized yards locally close down as they have had planning permission granted for multiple housing.

Ultimately if you are sitting on farm/stable building/brown belt now it's quick quids in, running a yard doesn't earn you anywhere near enough as getting planning for housing. It is a sad fact of life, but i sort of don't blame people going for it either.

As far as objecting - only planning relevant matters will be taken into account, which i can't remember exactly what they are, a general "i don't like it" doesn't get taken into account. And your name is likely to be made public unfortunately.

I would make sure i had a backup yard in my back pocket, they might just build some stables without planning, or they may not add any at all, or they might apply for more stables. Who knows.

 

[Honey08]

id be very wary. i gt planning permission to convert a tiny barn into a house, but never actually did it as i met my husband and his son, and it wouldve been too small. A few years later we applied for a block of wooden stables and the planning officer was quite snotty - we'd never have given you permission for the barn if we had known youd want stables afterwards. I had to really argue with them, the stables in the unconverted barn were pony stables, too small and low for my horses anyway.

 

[Boots*McGruber]

Ask why the new stables are not on the planning application?