Yards! I thought I'd heard it all!

[Ample Prosecco]

My friend is on a yard with a batsh1t YO who makes money in lots of weird ways. Lasest one is to allow people to live in caravans on the yard. One new resisdent is parked up right alongside the arena fence line and hangs her washing out next to the arena. The other day she banged furiously on the window of her caravan at 7:30 in the morning at the rider in the arena because she was 'sleeping' and it's 'too early to ride'.

Are there any restrictions on people just moving into a caravan on a yard with owner's permission? Or is this a perfectly legit thing to do. It is making the liveries very uncomfortable.

 

[teapot]

Yard owner can do what they like in terms of their land/impact on liveries. There's no legal guidance anywhere with regards governance of livery yards.

Whether the caravans and being lived in long term is legal from a planning permission/residential property point of view I don't know.

 

[maya2008]

Yard owner can do what they like in terms of their land/impact on liveries.

Whether the caravans and being lived in long term is legal from a planning permission/residential propriety point of view I don't know.

In England it requires planning permission. You can put a caravan under a certain size in your back garden and have a relative live there, under permitted development, but it must be a relative and garden only. I think you have to get it approved also and I know you have to pay council tax unless the relative is disabled and dependent on you.

A yard is a commercial property. Definitely planning permission required there (and council tax!). There is some law about short term camping for a limited number of days a year but this doesn’t sound like that.

 

[Fransurrey]

Assuming Maya is right, might be worth a call to the local council planning department. You could argue that the YO should be providing a safe space for clients (and a yard is also classed as a 'public space'). Banging on windows and potentially scaring the ridden horses would go against that, but quite hard to prove! Does sound rather BS crazy...

 

[SDMabel]

Doesn't sound that nice either for the caravan dweller' , hopefully it wont last !!

 

[Pedantic]

NOA

 

[I'm Dun]

absolutely needs planning otherwise its a maximum of 28days only. Its easy enough to check if planning has been applied for or granted by looking on the council website

 

[The Xmas Furry]

In England it requires planning permission. You can put a caravan under a certain size in your back garden and have a relative live there, under permitted development, but it must be a relative and garden only. I think you have to get it approved also and I know you have to pay council tax unless the relative is disabled and dependent on you.

A yard is a commercial property. Definitely planning permission required there (and council tax!). There is some law about short term camping for a limited number of days a year but this doesn’t sound like that.

Yup, I can put 1 mobile caravan or hut at my yard, I can sleep in it for up to 28 days a year and it must not be connected up to any mains services. No electricity, water or foul sewer.
Planning is required for anything else.
A commercial yard will need planning full stop.

AE, best your friend had a little word with planning dept.... shhh....

 

[meleeka]

The rules have recently changed so I think they can stay for 28 days. After that, they definitely need planning permission, or change of use, or both. A similar thing happened to a friends yard. The did let them stay without PP in the end, but made them pay rates and the resident pay council tax, backdated.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

This is yard owners we are talking about most do what they like a bit like some farmers they tend to not give a damn about what is legal or not in my experience.

I thought the arena I use was bad for distraction and spook factor

 

[SEL]

Sneaky email to the council needed there! My neighbouring landowner does house clearances and took possession of a mobile home. It's a bit knackered so not at all mobile once it was parked up in the corner of the field. Council were round in 24 hours to see what his plans were.

 

[blitznbobs]

Well they can technically be asked to remove them after a planning investigation and appeal but that will involve someone whinging to the council , the council deciding that they want to take action, an appeal etc etc… time wise you are probably looking 2 to 3 years for all that - IF the council can be bothered.

 

[TPO]

A yard I was on had 20+ at one time housing local contractors.

They were around the barns rather than the arena.

No idea of the legalities but can't say it was a pleasant experience as a livery

 

[oldie48]

I have used an arena that was adjacent to a caravan site used by tourists so they came and went. tbf my horse got used to seeing them and also the washing drying in the breeze, the dog who had never seen horses before and the small children squealing. It's not ideal but it did make a competition environment seem quite boring.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

I think they will all develop a yen for 5 am schooling sessions…

 

[honetpot]

There is a lot more money in caravans, and your problems usually leave fairly quickly. I would be careful what you wish for.

Class B - temporary use of land

Class B allows for temporary use of land for any purpose for not more than 28 days a year. What are the restrictions and what can you do?

www.planninggeek.co.uk

 

[Sossigpoker]

Just report it to the council,.they'll deal with it.

 

[FestiveG]

While I do not condone people flouting planning laws, I do find it a little disconcerting that someone on a livery yard feels that they have a right to complain about other parts of the property being used. I guess if the yo feels that they can make more money, with less hassle, from the caravans that they will go down that route. If they believe that their liveries have "dobbed them in" then they may decide to close the yard, certainly to their current clients.

 

[Surbie]

The other day she banged furiously on the window of her caravan at 7:30 in the morning at the rider in the arena because she was 'sleeping' and it's 'too early to ride'.

I hope the YO's insurance is incredibly good if that's where they choose to allow pitches.

 

[splashgirl45]

While I do not condone people flouting planning laws, I do find it a little disconcerting that someone on a livery yard feels that they have a right to complain about other parts of the property being used. I guess if the yo feels that they can make more money, with less hassle, from the caravans that they will go down that route. If they believe that their liveries have "dobbed them in" then they may decide to close the yard, certainly to their current clients.

I think it’s the fact that it’s parked next to the arena that’s the problem

 

[Ample Prosecco]

While I do not condone people flouting planning laws, I do find it a little disconcerting that someone on a livery yard feels that they have a right to complain about other parts of the property being used. I guess if the yo feels that they can make more money, with less hassle, from the caravans that they will go down that route. If they believe that their liveries have "dobbed them in" then they may decide to close the yard, certainly to their current clients.

I have no problen with yards diversifying. And many yards offer caravan pitches etc. As mentioned above - that is pretty good for spook-busting.

The issue with this is where the caravan is and the fact that this is someone's permanent dwelling which means they are intolerant of something as basic as riders - shock - RIDING in the arenas before work.

People coming on holiday to working farms and yards generally accept that the work of the yard/farm will carry on around them. Indeed that was one of the attractions on the yard I was on years ago that offered camping and caravan pitches. Visitors liked seeing the horses and meeting the other animals. As far as I know no camper/caravanner ever complained about arena use when I was on that yard.

So if the caravan was somewhere a bit more sensible, and the resident in it was respectful of the liveries right to use the arena, then the liveries would probably shrug and 'live and let live'. But that is not the case here.

 

[honetpot]

I think people just need to be more aware of the problems land owners have, spraying, cutting hedges, clearing drainage ditchs cost money, and there perhaps more effective ways of earming money off their asset. Its not that difficult to get a CC site.

'Under the new Class BC, a recreational campsite can be erected with no more than 50 pitches. Pitches include any moveable structures for the purpose of recreational camping, as well as campervans and motorhomes.'

https://www.nfuonline.com/updates-and-information/new-extension-to-temporary-campsite-and-filming-rules-in-england/

The last large DIY I was on had everything you could wish for, at a very reasonable price, with extra large arena that cost about £60k ten years ago, liveries still left a mess.

 

[sbloom]

Well they can technically be asked to remove them after a planning investigation and appeal but that will involve someone whinging to the council , the council deciding that they want to take action, an appeal etc etc… time wise you are probably looking 2 to 3 years for all that - IF the council can be bothered.

Councils are underfunded, understaffed and have to set priorities. I'd be very surprised if action was taken within that time frame right now

 

[Sossigpoker]

Councils are underfunded, understaffed and have to set priorities. I'd be very surprised if action was taken within that time frame right now

That's not true here ,.I reported something to the council and they visited the site within 10 days. If a planning issue had been observed ,.they would have opened a file and sent out their letters straight away.

 

[scruffyponies]

That's not true here ,.I reported something to the council and they visited the site within 10 days. If a planning issue had been observed ,.they would have opened a file and sent out their letters straight away.

They pick and choose what they're interested in. Try getting them to respond within the statutory limit for a historic bridleway application or definitive map correction.