Yea-saac looking for advice

northwaleshorsewatch

northwaleshorsewatch

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I have two elderly ponies who have gut issues.
Pony is 12.2 welsh pony he is 23 has mild cushings and very loose.He is on a balance and allen and page but always has loose droppings

Cob is 25 I had to change his diet 6 months ago due to dentals issues.He has balancer veteran mixes hi fibre cubes.He cannot manage hay but had short grass.
He too has loose droppings now.

I have been advised to give them probiotics and after researching yea-saac brewers yeast and all the companies that offer gut fixers I thought I would turn to you guys for advice.

I'm looking at the cheapest alternative I am unsure how much to feed a day
 
Pink mash? Easy for them to eat and its got Protexin, as well as probiotics. Mine came with gut issues and has absolutely flourished on it. You coulld then drop the A+P and mixes etc as you can feed it in small amounts as a feed or large amounts as a partial hay replacer. Then you can just add a cheap powdered balancer, I use the progressive earth one thats works out about a tenner a month for a 500kgs horse. All I add extra to that is 40gms of salt.
 
northwaleshorsewatch said:
I have two elderly ponies who have gut issues.
Pony is 12.2 welsh pony he is 23 has mild cushings and very loose.He is on a balance and allen and page but always has loose droppings

Cob is 25 I had to change his diet 6 months ago due to dentals issues.He has balancer veteran mixes hi fibre cubes.He cannot manage hay but had short grass.
He too has loose droppings now.

I have been advised to give them probiotics and after researching yea-saac brewers yeast and all the companies that offer gut fixers I thought I would turn to you guys for advice.

I'm looking at the cheapest alternative I am unsure how much to feed a day
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Pink powder is what I found helps the gut along with Protexin, the cheapest are not always the best, and you need to be aware that what ever you introduce could make the problem worse. Take pink mash for instance, my pony went onto it in January and never went loose but it caused her to have inflamed hind gut and several colic attacks due to the small intestine so inflamed, waste would get backed up due to the hole being too small, and like your pony is mine is a welsh A. They can be sensitive to new products and supplements/additives within a product.



Having had a mare who wasted away due to an condition the vets and test never pinpointed down to, her hind gut was racing and the only way we stopped her scouring was Codeine Phosphate tablets.

You don't mention the vet in your post, so I would speak to them as like my pony we had to strip her feed and supplements down to 3 basic edible things. This was to give her hind gut a chance to recover and the inflammation to go down she has
2 handfulls ready grass in feeds
equivite and 50ml soyal oil once a day.
Also Mauve haylkage - from the blue as the mauve is just one type of grass and puts less strain on a already compromised system.


I too bought protexin and told not to use it after we got results of biopsy and gastroscope. A waste of money

I would not introduce anymore supplements all feeds till you know what your dealing with as you may be told to stop them once test show the cause.


Seriously though contact the vet - I would post a picture of my mare at the end but I think you can imagine - fur covering bone.
 
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ILuvCowparsely said:
Pink powder is what I found helps the gut along with Protexin, the cheapest are not always the best, and you need to be aware that what ever you introduce could make the problem worse. Take pink mash for instance, my pony went onto it in January and never went loose but it caused her to have inflamed hind gut and several colic attacks due to the small intestine so inflamed, waste would get backed up due to the hole being too small, and like your pony is mine is a welsh A.
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How? Looking at what you are feeding now it seems to be a home made version of pink mash anyway. But if it really did cause these issues I'm assuming your vet told Keyflow because I and the thousands of other people who use it, will want to know ASAP.
 
Leo Walker said:
How? Looking at what you are feeding now it seems to be a home made version of pink mash anyway. But if it really did cause these issues I'm assuming your vet told Keyflow because I and the thousands of other people who use it, will want to know ASAP.
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i knew you were on ignore for a reason.

Do you try to be stupid or does it come to you naturally?

Why it gods name would I cause a panic due to one pony reacting to something in a feed or supplement?? It was the only new thing introduce to the pony. These welsh ponies are not always as hardy as they are profess to be.

Does it not programme in you that some horses react to a product and others don't. That does not mean we panic the world, jeeze if that was the case we would remove peanut butter from the shops because some react to peanuts


There is nothing homemade about her diet it was after considerable test by http://liphookequinehospital.co.uk/all-the-team/laboratory/?sid=professor-andy-durham who told my vet and myself that is what HE wanted on her

I knew there was a reason you were on ignore. I mean why would I listen to anyone who only been carriage driving 3 1/2 months who tells me a 4 wheeled carriage without a back step should have someone standing as they think it isn't balanced when they are, and buys a cart without first checking it is the right size for the horse or someone who allows the person on the backstep to be there with no hat on and post it on facebook. Sorry to be rude but I have been driving 3 years and been around horses many more years than a 29 year old.

Now back on ignore and I won't spoil the OP post answering your stupid comments. *Click*
 
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(calms down) OP please speak to your vet as scouring for anything more than 4 - 5 days is serious especially in older horses where they loose vital fluids and bacteria when they pass watery faeces. The gut is either comprised in some way or something is being overlooked, or maybe leaky gut syndrome, the vet may do a rectal or a ultra sound to see if there is anything blocking or causing this condition. My old mare I told you about (and this was 1994) when condition started, never could be isolated what the cause was, and we did every test you can imaging from internals to checking for cancer. Being in the 1990's less was known and less available to root out the cause as this was 23 years ago.


It is up to you of course but speaking of experience when I lost my first mare to watery stools, I think the first port of call should be your vet as they are in a better position to diagnose or refer them for extensive test to find out the cause before they go downhill anymore.
 
ILuvCowparsely said:
i knew you were on ignore for a reason.

Do you try to be stupid or does it come to you naturally?

Why it gods name would I cause a panic due to one pony reacting to something in a feed or supplement?? It was the only new thing introduce to the pony. These welsh ponies are not always as hardy as they are profess to be.

Does it not programme in you that some horses react to a product and others don't. That does not mean we panic the world, jeeze if that was the case we would remove peanut butter from the shops because some react to peanuts


There is nothing homemade about her diet it was after considerable test by http://liphookequinehospital.co.uk/all-the-team/laboratory/?sid=professor-andy-durham who told my vet and myself that is what HE wanted on her

I knew there was a reason you were on ignore. I mean why would I listen to anyone who only been carriage driving 3 1/2 months who tells me a 4 wheeled carriage without a back step should have someone standing as they think it isn't balanced when they are, and buys a cart without first checking it is the right size for the horse or someone who allows the person on the backstep to be there with no hat on and post it on facebook. Sorry to be rude but I have been driving 3 years and been around horses many more years than a 29 year old.

Now back on ignore and I won't spoil the OP post answering your stupid comments. * Click*
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That was unnecessarily rude. If mine had Pink Mash, and someone reported a problem like that, I'd want to know why too. I have one who choked every time I fed him Re-leve, so I spoke to Saracen about it, just in case I wasn't alone, and they needed to know.
 
Auslander said:
That was unnecessarily rude. If mine had Pink Mash, and someone reported a problem like that, I'd want to know why too. I have one who choked every time I fed him Re-leve, so I spoke to Saracen about it, just in case I wasn't alone, and they needed to know.
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yes maybe it was but I am sick of having to justify my post, I have already said in the past that not all horses react the same, I have also said the gelding is on pink mash and is ok.

The ponies condition is a serious one which is why I had the best person diagnose her and treat her,, then explain that to a member who's ponies are scouring


Then have a youngster tell me that my diet is a home made diet!!! when it cost £ 700 for a specialist to come out to my vets and do extensive test and said that is what she MUST be on to try reduce the protein loss and save the ponies life.

Sorry if you don't like it but that is fact and the OP obviously worried about the pony and asked for advise and I presume wanted those who had experienced similar or lost horses/ponies to scouring to give their experience.
 
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ILuvCowparsely said:
i knew you were on ignore for a reason.

Do you try to be stupid or does it come to you naturally?

Why it gods name would I cause a panic due to one pony reacting to something in a feed or supplement?? It was the only new thing introduce to the pony. These welsh ponies are not always as hardy as they are profess to be.

Does it not programme in you that some horses react to a product and others don't. That does not mean we panic the world, jeeze if that was the case we would remove peanut butter from the shops because some react to peanuts


There is nothing homemade about her diet it was after considerable test by http://liphookequinehospital.co.uk/all-the-team/laboratory/?sid=professor-andy-durham who told my vet and myself that is what HE wanted on her

I knew there was a reason you were on ignore. I mean why would I listen to anyone who only been carriage driving 3 1/2 months who tells me a 4 wheeled carriage without a back step should have someone standing as they think it isn't balanced when they are, and buys a cart without first checking it is the right size for the horse or someone who allows the person on the backstep to be there with no hat on and post it on facebook. Sorry to be rude but I have been driving 3 years and been around horses many more years than a 29 year old.

Now back on ignore and I won't spoil the OP post answering your stupid comments. *Click*
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I bet you wont, because as usual you are talking absolute crap. The diet you are feeding now, the one you make at home, contains exactly the same ingredients as pink mash. And as for causing a panic, is that not what you are trying to do here? If its just a case of your horse reacting, then thats what you would say. But you didnt.

Its a message board. If someone posts something then there is every possibility they will be asked about it especially when you do it with the intention of causing worry and upset and/or post complete nonsense.

Not sure what any of the other nasty little rant is about or why you considered it necessary to post it here but for the record I am considerably older than 29....
 
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ILuvCowparsely said:
<snipped lots of carp out>

Now back on ignore and I won't spoil the OP post answering your stupid comments. *Click*
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How ruddy rude! There was no need for that whatsoever.
Changing your name on here still means you haven't changed your spots, has it? Still a mean spirited forum user...... who posts complete wazzocks :rolleyes3:
 
I don't understand this 'I knew you were on ignore for a reason' if you want people on ignore just leave them there :rolleyes3: stop reading their posts and saying they were on ignore!

and yes, if an animal/person reacted to a medication as such it would be reported however rare, and I would absolutely do the same for feed/other product and I'm surprised that the vets involved did not.
 
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ILuvCowparsely said:
yes maybe it was but I am sick of having to justify my post, I have already said in the past that not all horses react the same, I have also said the gelding is on pink mash and is ok.

The ponies condition is a serious one which is why I had the best person diagnose her and treat her,, then explain that to a member who's ponies are scouring


Then have a youngster tell me that my diet is a home made diet!!! when it cost £ 700 for a specialist to come out to my vets and do extensive test and said that is what she MUST be on to try reduce the protein loss and save the ponies life.

Sorry if you don't like it but that is fact and the OP obviously worried about the pony and asked for advise and I presume wanted those who had experienced similar or lost horses/ponies to scouring to give their experience.
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I think you misunderstood Leos "homemade" reference. I don't think she was trying to be rude - just suggesting that what you were feeding was similar to pink mash, just not a bagged feed.

I'm not commenting on your animals diet - I wouldn't be particularly happy to be charged £700 to be told to feed a not particularly good muliti-vit/min supplement and soya oil, which is not considered to be a good option for horses, but that's your choice.
 
anyway OP

I have fed brewers yeast yea sacc and a supplement with yea sacc in.

Mine doesn't really like brewers yeast so we switched to yea sacc but that was when I was making up my own mineral supplements.
Now I feed a supplement that has it in.
I cannot comment on the various other gut supplements that have it in I'm afraid.
 
Auslander said:
I think you misunderstood Leos "homemade" reference. I don't think she was trying to be rude - just suggesting that what you were feeding was similar to pink mash, just not a bagged feed.

I'm not commenting on your animals diet - I wouldn't be particularly happy to be charged £700 to be told to feed a not particularly good muliti-vit/min supplement and soya oil, which is not considered to be a good option for horses, but that's your choice.
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Well Andy Durum did not get where he is without being the best in his field - he is where all the vets round here send horses for referrals. All I care about is how my pony is and she is improving now we know what caused it - and her protein levels are going up not down. So the very diet Andy Durum told us to go on is working.

Just for the record if your horse was coliking on and off, you had already lost 2 to colic and having steepness nights worrying if your horse was going to be alive the next day or not and your vets did many test then advised you a referral would be vital to confirm which condition your horse had between IBD and Ulcers after ultra sounds and gastroscope confirmed small intestines were inflamed and a couple red spots in the lining.

You are told IBD is very often fatal and your horses protein was dropping to 26 then the next time dropped further to 25 and had oedemas and lethargic. You were advised Professor Andy Durum was coming the next week and to share a visit, then HE did test and looked at the images and said THAT is the course of plan for her food and grazing regime, then her proteins started going up. Would you stick to the plan or go off and do your own thing.
 
ILuvCowparsely said:
Well Andy Durum did not get where he is without being the best in his field - he is where all the vets round here send horses for referrals. All I care about is how my pony is and she is improving now we know what caused it - and her protein levels are going up not down. So the very diet Andy Durum told us to go on is working.

Just for the record if your horse was coliking on and off, you had already lost 2 to colic and having steepness nights worrying if your horse was going to be alive the next day or not and your vets did many test then advised you a referral would be vital to confirm which condition your horse had between IBD and Ulcers after ultra sounds and gastroscope confirmed small intestines were inflamed and a couple red spots in the lining.

You are told IBD is very often fatal and your horses protein was dropping to 26 then the next time dropped further to 25 and had oedemas and lethargic. You were advised Professor Andy Durum was coming the next week and to share a visit, the HE did test and looked at the images and said THAT is the course of plan for her food and grazing regime, then her proteins started going up. Would you stick to the plan or go off and do your own thing.
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I have had dealings with him professionally - and I have great respect for him. If he said "Simplify the diet - give the horse a handful of chopped fibre, some oil, and a multivit/min supplement", I wouldn't bat an eyelid. However, it would not be ethical of him to recommend a specific commercial supplement, so you saying that he did is quite worrying. It's also common knowledge that soya oil is high in pro-inflammatory Omega 6, which is far from ideal if the horse has an inflamed gut
 
This thread seems to have gone rather off topic.

I feed pink mash and yeasacc, my mare is doing amazing on it. I get yeasacc from Progressive Earth, I think it's about £20 for a 1kg bag and lasts a couple of months depending on how much you feed. I'm feeding 20g approx a day and will last me up to 2 months. With the mash, she doesn't necessarily need the yeasacc with hindgut support being in the feed but I add it as if my feed is premade and left over night, it can make the pre and probiotics less effective. Not sure if it's by much but I'm a bit paranoid so want to be sure! There are lots of supplements out there that aim at hindgut support but sometimes just the straight supplement is easier and doesn't have lots of others things in it you might not need! If you want something that works for fore and hindgut without changing current feed, protexin gut balancer is good. :)
 
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Auslander said:
I have had dealings with him professionally - and I have great respect for him. If he said "Simplify the diet - give the horse a handful of chopped fibre, some oil, and a multivit/min supplement", I wouldn't bat an eyelid. However, it would not be ethical of him to recommend a specific commercial supplement, so you saying that he did is quite worrying. It's also common knowledge that soya oil is high in pro-inflammatory Omega 6, which is far from ideal if the horse has an inflamed gut
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Once again this is not helping the Op - I am not discussing my ponies case anymore on this thread. It is the OP ponies we need to help, it is up to them what they do and as I said we can only share our experience not VIEWS on what she should do. I still say the vet should be bought in if not before. Sorry this has been hijacked OP
I have to rectify one thing as in my haste prior to riding I said soya oil I meant linseed oil.

Be what ever you think this is the discharge sheet with my vet my name and ponies name removed. Not discussing this anymore
20171105_1738061_zpsvox4zk27.jpg
 
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Seems strange that you would upload 2 of those to your photobucket and that they would be different. I dont want to call you a liar, but it would be very naughty of you to falsify documents and upload them onto a public forum
 
Leo Walker said:
Seems strange that you would upload 2 of those to your photobucket and that they would be different. I dont want to call you a liar, but it would be very naughty of you to falsify documents and upload them onto a public forum
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STRANGE OMG read into it what you want I don't give a damn.



Not that I should have to explain to someone like you BUT


I left my vets phone number on the first one so had to remove it and upload it without their number. Since you are checking my photo bucket I removed the one with the telephone.

I would show one member on here the original with my name and my vets and their tel because I trust them and know them personally - but I will NOT post the original with my name and address and ponies and vets name on which is why it was removed it and uploaded one without their telephone.

That document is as the vets sent via email except personal details removed.

Now why don't you go a live your little life and leave mine alone. This is Op thread and I would be bloody annoyed at someone going on and on about another members reply - and stopping other useful replies being posted.
 
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ILuvCowparsely said:
Once again this is not helping the Op - I am not discussing my ponies case anymore on this thread. It is the OP ponies we need to help, it is up to them what they do and as I said we can only share our experience not VIEWS on what she should do. I still say the vet should be bought in if not before. Sorry this has been hijacked OP
I have to rectify one thing as in my haste prior to riding I said soya oil I meant linseed oil.

Be what ever you think this is the discharge sheet with my vet my name and ponies name removed. Not discussing this anymore
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I disagree that it isn't helpful to the OP, as discussions about management of dodgy bowels, even if not entirely friendly, are relevant to the issue in discussion.
These instructions say Linseed Oil, not soya, which is more what I would have expected, as linseed oil contains high levels of anti-inflammatory Omega 3, which would be far better for your horse
 
Auslander said:
I disagree that it isn't helpful to the OP, as discussions about management of dodgy bowels, even if not entirely friendly, are relevant to the issue in discussion.
These instructions say Linseed Oil, not soya, which is more what I would have expected, as linseed oil contains high levels of anti-inflammatory Omega 3, which would be far better for your horse
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Wow you posted without reading my post saying I said soya by mistake - it might be helpful if you read my post before replying and since the only bottle of oil in the feedroom says Linseed - there is no chance the pony having soya by mistake is there.
 
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ILuvCowparsely said:
Wow you posted without reading my post saying I said soya by mistake - it might be helpful if you read my post before replying and since the only bottle of oil in the feedroom says Linseed - there is no chance the pony having soya by mistake is there.
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I'm not interested in getting into a row. I didn't see the bit about you mistakenly saying soya, when you meant linseed - sorry. What's important is that the correct info is now up there.
 
Thank you I don't want to row either - Andy and my vets were in a big discussion over my pony, home set up, what vets had done -her diet history. So Vets know every single thing every single supplement she has had since 2009.

I know how quickly horses go down hill with diarrhoea if the cause is not found, so just trying to get across to the Op that in her shoes I would not start adding supplements till the cause of loose stools is known.
 
Well it seems to me a good job someone pointed out the issues with soya, otherwise that mistake would have stood and it would not be a good idea for anyone with such a pony so best it was corrected.
 
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