Yearling loading issue, ideas?

[pip6]

My friend & I have a gorgeous (approx 14.2hh yearling), british wb breeding, usually very sensible & amenable, very easy to work with. But,

We srated to teach her to load this week & she seems to have an issue with stepping onto the ramp. She would put her foot up, but not place it flat so she knuckled over & went onto her knee each time scaring her. I've tried walking her over raised trot poles, absolutely fine & foot perfect, but as soon as faced with the ramp again she goes down (definately a stumble not a hissy fit).

Any ideas? We've taught yearlings before & as they are all very well handled never had a problem, this is a first for us. It's an extra large (so huge) Ifor double horse trailer with extra headroom, so very light & airy. We've taken her sister (2 year old) through in front of her, she goes to follow then stumbles & goes over on the ramp, followed by shooting back away from the trailer.

This is a very sweet girl who leads well, walks out in hand on the lane past cars & is usually very bright. Any ideas welcome.

 

[StaceyTanglewood]

have 3 people one on the front and 2 at the back end with a towel put this around her bum and lift her in it will be done soo quickly she will be in on the flat before she know it x

 

[frostie652]

could leave her feed at the top of the ramp for a few evenings and let her sort out placing her legs with the motivation of food without any help? I know when I try to help a ponio when its panicing they tend to not listen so much and want to sort things out for themselves

 

[*hic*]

Try teaching her to walk onto a couple of solid pallets covered with a rubber mat so that they are level and just a step up, step down for her. When she's happy that they are easy to play with move them to the bottom of the ramp and drop the ramp on to them so that it is less steep, put the mat on the pallets and onto the ramp, start by walking across the pallet step and then bring her round and walk her across the pallet step and up the ramp. When she's happy with that put the pallets next to the ramp with the ramp to the ground so it is at its steepest and get her to walk onto the pallets and up the steeper ramp.

Alternatively build an earth mound and drop the ramp onto it so that it forms a bridge - that's what I did at first!

 

[teddyt]

have 3 people one on the front and 2 at the back end with a towel put this around her bum and lift her in it will be done soo quickly she will be in on the flat before she know it x

Please dont do anything like this! She is a year old and has had a weeks training! You just need more time and patience and she will get there. She just hasnt worked out how to balance yet following a step and a slope.

Have you anywhere that you can lead her up and down a slope? Or as suggested make a safe step up? All she needs is practice to work out were to put her legs and how to balance and she will go in. Any form of force is inappropriate and means she hasnt made the decision to go in- asking for trouble. I had a youngster that had the opposite problem- she walked in fine but took up to an hour and a half to come out again! Repetition and patience and she soon got the hang of it. Use food and friends if you need to but if all you get is one foot on the ramp at first that is progress! She doesnt have to go all the way in straight away. thats a bit like teaching someone to swim by throwing them in the deep end and expecting them to swim a whole length!

She obviously wants to do it but is worried. Keep practising and dont worry how long it takes, it will pay off in the end.

 

[Rollin]

could leave her feed at the top of the ramp for a few evenings and let her sort out placing her legs with the motivation of food without any help? I know when I try to help a ponio when its panicing they tend to not listen so much and want to sort things out for themselves

I did that with my first little handled three year old. It worked well - but she is a hungry girl. We let her go at her own pace.

 

[Spyda]

At this stage I'd not want to force her up the ramp using rear pressure. If you're not in a hurry to have her loaded (hopefully not), I'd try and build up her confidence to venture inside. In fact, I find my youngster becomes anxious with too many people around, particulary people standing towards the rear of her when I'm loading her. She's distracted by them. Have helpers, but encourage them to stand quietly at the side of the tailer until needed.

Does she have a stable she uses? If so, it can really help to take out some of the bedding from in there and layering it over the ramp, covering the gap between the ramp and floor and on into the trailer/box. This will have her own smell on it and may give her confidence to up step onto the ramp. She'll definitely want to sniff it.

If she steps a small way onto the ramp with the bedding on, don't force her to go further until she's ready. Better to let her step off the rear ramp and repeat the excerise another day. Act like it's a run of mill thing your asking of her and no big deal! If you're already doing interesting in hand exercises with her, she should get the idea and be used to tackling new challenges with you.

Personally, I use a front unload trailer for training my youngsters and open it right up for the early training sessions. I have an Ifor Williams and leave the partition in, but pull the rear section right over to open up the whole rear entrance to be as wide and enviting as it can be. I take out the breast bar and have the front ramp down. With their own bedding layed over the ramp, covering the 'scary' gap and lining the trailer, convincing them to walk through the open trailer is usually fairly simple to acheive. With patience. Once they're confident walking through, I fairly quickly start asking them to stop inside the trailer. Just briefly if they start to get anxious. Once steady about stopping, I ask them to stand a little longer by giving a little treat and then walking them out through the front. Once they are happy standing in the trailer with the rear ramp closed, it's safe to put in the breast bar and close the front ramp.

 

[Berpisc]

I would second the pallets idea, also as a precursor to that (if you havent already done so) get her walking over other stuff such as tarpaulins etc so she learns to trust that where you lead her is ok, and that strange surfaces are ok.
Worked for me in the past anyway.

 

[pip6]

This is a particuarly frustrating thing as she has lived all the 12 months of her life on the steep sides of a valley so is very used to slopes (can gallop down the beautifully, rear, buck spin, fart etc on them when playing with her buddies) & has extremely good balance. It's like when she lifts her foot up she forgets to straighten her leg for some very off reason (being a trailer ramp is not a very high step either) so ends up knuckling over. She has had loads of handling, so there are no trust issues, & doesn't seem worried by the trailer at all, just not confident that she can actuall place a foot on the ramp.

Last night we were leading her over a corner of the ramp (to make it a much smaller question for her), where she'll put a back foot on but still will not put a front one on. If she was clumsy I'd understand it, but lead her over raised poles & she is perfect every time.

We want to build her confidence to get her in rather than force her in. She is a very big filly for her age so as she grows it would be much better to work through issues (that will undoubtedly arise) rather than force them each time she questions something because at some point she'll say no & be to big to argue with. Always been able to work through things with the others (all tb & arabs so hardly 'easy' breeds) & ended up with lovely willing animals.

 

[teddyt]

Its only been a week! You have obviously been lucky with your other youngsters but that is honestly no time at all to teach a horse to load. You shouldnt be frustrated after only a week! Take a step back from your expectations and go at the speed she can cope with- that way you will keep her lovely attitude.

What she is doing is perfectly normal for a young horse, she just has to learn how to go up a sloped step- which some horses find easier than others. Some 5 year olds dont have the proprioceptive ability to do it, let alone a yearling.

 

[frostie652]

this may sound silly but could you not walk her up to the very edge of the ramp and then pick up one of the fron legs and place it on the ramp for her? ive heard of people having to do thins with all four feet up the ramp into the box just because horsey didnt feel the urge o do it himself! lol

 

[StaceyTanglewood]

Please dont do anything like this! She is a year old and has had a weeks training! You just need more time and patience and she will get there. She just hasnt worked out how to balance yet following a step and a slope.

Have you anywhere that you can lead her up and down a slope? Or as suggested make a safe step up? All she needs is practice to work out were to put her legs and how to balance and she will go in. Any form of force is inappropriate and means she hasnt made the decision to go in- asking for trouble. I had a youngster that had the opposite problem- she walked in fine but took up to an hour and a half to come out again! Repetition and patience and she soon got the hang of it. Use food and friends if you need to but if all you get is one foot on the ramp at first that is progress! She doesnt have to go all the way in straight away. thats a bit like teaching someone to swim by throwing them in the deep end and expecting them to swim a whole length!

She obviously wants to do it but is worried. Keep practising and dont worry how long it takes, it will pay off in the end.

this is how i load all my foals and they all walk happily onto my box !1

I was taught how to do this by a professional and a lot of studs i know do it this way too ??

jeeze they are horses they do as we ask them to do not what they want to

 

[teddyt]

this is how i load all my foals and they all walk happily onto my box !1

I was taught how to do this by a professional and a lot of studs i know do it this way too ??

jeeze they are horses they do as we ask them to do not what they want to

Its not about doing what they want to do, its about them learning how to do something rather than being forced.

Using 5 people to manhandle a foal into a trailer is very short sighted- it achieves the short term aim of getting the horse into the trailer but it doesnt teach the horse how to do it itself, willingly. Later in life when its 3 times the weight it may question what its being asked to do because it hasnt learnt how to do it. You will find it much harder to shove it in then!

I would much rather my horses did something because they had been given the chance to learn the required task rather than doing it because they didnt have a choice. This approach has never failed with my foals and youngsters- if they understand and are capable of what you are asking them to do then they do as they have been asked- they dont say no! I find they are more likely to say no if they dont understand or cant physcially do something.

Professionals and other studs may do it but thats because they are too impatient and/or wont spend the time to train the horse- its easier and quicker just to shove it in. And they dont care that the horse may be difficult later in life- the horse wont be theirs anymore!

But i personally would never bully or force any of my horses to do something because i dont believe thats what having horses is about. Given the chance horse are usually more than willing to oblige our requests.

 

[liannexsx]

i've been watching clinton andersons trailer loading and going to try that way with my yearling, as a foal she would only go in straight from stable

 

[harriets ladybug]

congratulations teddyt someone who talks and understands the training of horses i my self have been doing it for years with young stock and troubled horses with amazing results especially loading to the point they load themselves with no lead ropes in less than a hour well said again teddyt

 

[perfect11s]

Its not about doing what they want to do, its about them learning how to do something rather than being forced.

Using 5 people to manhandle a foal into a trailer is very short sighted- it achieves the short term aim of getting the horse into the trailer but it doesnt teach the horse how to do it itself, willingly. Later in life when its 3 times the weight it may question what its being asked to do because it hasnt learnt how to do it. You will find it much harder to shove it in then!

I would much rather my horses did something because they had been given the chance to learn the required task rather than doing it because they didnt have a choice. This approach has never failed with my foals and youngsters- if they understand and are capable of what you are asking them to do then they do as they have been asked- they dont say no! I find they are more likely to say no if they dont understand or cant physcially do something.

Professionals and other studs may do it but thats because they are too impatient and/or wont spend the time to train the horse- its easier and quicker just to shove it in. And they dont care that the horse may be difficult later in life- the horse wont be theirs anymore!

But i personally would never bully or force any of my horses to do something because i dont believe thats what having horses is about. Given the chance horse are usually more than willing to oblige our requests.

that's what great horsemanship is ....well said....

 

[perfect11s]

jeeze they are horses they do as we ask them to do not what they want to

Im sure you get something out of your horses but not the best!!!

 

[Cluny]

I must admit I agree with TeddyT, having had horses who are particularly tricky loaders, which has been down to bad, forceful experiences when it comes to being loaded in previous homes, I would be very keen to make loading as stress free as possible, so the horse has no bad associations with it and this will set them up for life.

Time is most definitely the key, if you think how unnatural walking onto a reasonably unsteady enclosed area is for a horse, then you know force won't work.

It's a great idea to break the process down into little chunks, so asking her to walk over a corner of the ramp is a good way to start. I've found a great technique with a tricky loader is rather than asking them to walk up the ramp, ask them to walk across the ramp (from side to side), this way they are concentrating on the ramp and not walking 'into' the trailer, so one step at a time.

Also ground work is extremely important when loading, if your horse does not trust you on the ground, then there is no way it'll trust you in a stressful situation.

It sounds like you're doing a sterling job with the work over poles, I'd really recommend Kelly Mark's book, Perfect Manners, there is some excellent ground work exercises in there plus lots of help on loading.

 

[Spit That Out]

With my last youngster we left the trailer in the field with the ramps down. I found that he got used to the trailer and would investigate the ramp and what was inside.

Youngsters are very inquisitive.

He would walk up the ramp and out the other side by himself.

When we tried to load him, thinking he was ok with the ramps and trailer he flipped out...rearing, spinning round, pulling back etc. Just when we were about to give up my hubby told me to let him do it himself...which to my surprise he did.

5 years later and my horse still loads himself...at home, shows and fun rides we just point him at the ramp and he walks up. we then go in though the jockey door and tie him up.

No shouting, whips, lunge lines, buckets of feed needed.

I appreciate that this maybe an unusual case but the trailer in the field trick worked for me?

My friends foal will load in a Ifor trailer but can't get up the ramp of a lorry or her friends Rice...maybe your ramp is a bit steep?

Another thought is maybe he can feel the trailer moving when he steps on the ramp and feels wobbly/unsafe. Try leaving the Jockey wheel down but just remember to take it up when you go to pull away!!!

 

[Maesfen]

My friend & I have a gorgeous (approx 14.2hh yearling), british wb breeding, usually very sensible & amenable, very easy to work with. But,

We srated to teach her to load this week & she seems to have an issue with stepping onto the ramp. She would put her foot up, but not place it flat so she knuckled over & went onto her knee each time scaring her. I've tried walking her over raised trot poles, absolutely fine & foot perfect, but as soon as faced with the ramp again she goes down (definately a stumble not a hissy fit).

.

I take it by your abbreviations, you're talking about a warmblood?

Always been able to work through things with the others (all tb & arabs so hardly 'easy' breeds) & ended up with lovely willing animals.

Funny how different breeds mean different things to others. I would say TBs and Arabs are among the easiest horses to work with, I prefer them (and the Irish) to anything else.

If this filly is a warmblood, there's part of your answer I'm afraid, they're not known as dumbloods for nothing.

Sorry, that's no help but due to the frustration of dealing with some very dumb warmbloods in the past, they were just so thick without a shred of a brain at all. Every day I would turn them out and bring back in. Every day I would have to teach them how to turn around a gate every time we went through it; they drove me bananas every day for three months and by the end of that time, still, sometimes they would manage it, sometimes they couldn't so it does not surprise me about your filly, sorry. One day it might surprise you but don't hold your breath, you'll be puce. In the meantime, I'd use the having the ramp on a bank so it can walk straight in; once it's happy going in, then you might be able to use flat ground if it's learnt to engage the brain to the feet.

 

[fitzaud2]

I deal with babies most of the time, and we use a "galway box". No ramp, just step up, works way better, but my 3 year old will go into any box, ramp or no ramp, partision or not, if feed is involved. ~I know it's not a great idea, but even if you have a week, then put a feed bucket half way up, and see hoow that goes. If the box is yours, spend a week "schooling" before you have to go anywhere. Maybe drop the front ramp for a while and just go straight through

 

[Bedlam]

Have you tried encouraging your yearling to just walk over the back of the ramp? By this I mean instead of asking him to go in to the trailer, asking him to walk over the ramp from side to side right at the bottom?

Try to get him going over the ramp at your suggestion rather than leading him - I'm trying to avoid Parelli speak for fear of being blasted away, but this should be the squeeze game - whereby he goes past you and then turns to face. Of course - this is the last of the 'games' so he should be happy with all other groundwork first, but it sounds as if he's well handled and well mannered already.

 

[Bedlam]

Sorry - it's a filly - should read 'her'.....

 

[pip6]

I wasn't going to mention the lower IQ in case I offended too many people, but yes with the arabs you do it once, they have it, get bored so you'd better find something new. This girl things have to be repeated. I love my arabs!

We have been leaading her from a stable over the corner of the ramp for several days now (she is living out so we bring her in each evening to practise. She isn't in the slightest scared of the ramp or the trailer. she just seems to view the ramp (which is actually quite level) as an insurmountable barrier that her feet can't possibly go on or barely over (often jumps the corner). A couple of days ago I was stood by the ramp (as I do to make sure she isn't worried about it), she heard a noise & turned to look, placing both hind feet on the ramp without realising. much fuss was made of her & when asked she quietly walked off. Since then she has gone to not touching it again (arabs are soooo much easier).

If she was scared I'd understand, but I swear she just believes that she is incapable of picking a foot up & placing it on. It must be the sensation of when she then puts weight on it of increasing in height. Vertigo???

 

[Maesfen]

Lol, I won't say told you so but glad you know what I mean!
Can you leave her safe in the yard with the open trailer and a bucket of feed inside it then just leave her to her own devices or have you tried that? My yearling is similar (and yes, slightly WB!) he's travelled perfectly before several times but he insists on being stubborn at the bottom of the ramp; he's not scared at all, just being a complete brat and the only way so far has been to use a dog bungee (similar to what they use in starting stalls) behind him and almost lift him in, luckily he's part pony so not a hulk just yet. Once he's been lifted onto the ramp, he walks straight in and stands quietly, it's just getting him to take that first step up and like yours he refuses to keep a placed foot on there but once the two front ones are on, he walks up. It reminded me why I don't like dumbloods all over again!

 

[pip6]

The yard isn't secure so she can't be left to wander. If it was put in the field the 2 year olds (her tb half sister & an arab) would be in on the food like greased lightening as they have never been worried by the trailer or ramp. They (& the cats who frequently go out in the paddock with them) would just think we'd put a new toy in the field for them to chew/lick/poo on.....

Don't think it would do much to settle her turning her out on her own, would be more worried about loosing her buddies than getting to the food in the trailer (she likes food but isn't obsessed like some breeds can be).

 

[liannexsx]

well im totally depressed...mine wont go in either. is totally desensitised lunging round trailer but will not set foot on the ramp. stepped on a couple of times but thinks stuff this. so very depressed and gonna have a big bottle of wine

 

[Doublethyme]

My yearling was like this - she just couldn't seem to understand the ramp - fair enough it was a horse box , so a bit steeper than a trailer. Through circumstances, she was delivered to me by the stud at 18 months old to a friend's temporary stop yard - all good, stud said she loaded (first time ever asked) well and travelled well, but I wonder if they baby loaded her with bundling her up before she realised - not sure.

Anyway, I unfortunately had to move her again within 2 weeks, well we spent hours trying to load her - not I might add overly stressing her or using pressure, but it was like she wanted to go, but just didn't understand how, again she would buckle her legs when she put them on the ramp. In the end, an experienced handler helped us bundle her in - yes I KNOW not ideal, but after 5 hours (with breaks in between) and coming home to get my mare to see if that helped her go in, it had to be done - you know what she was COMPLETELY unstressed about being bundled up - but it wasn't done by pushing and pressuring her, it was two people hugging her really closely behind, like a complete close body wrap under her tail and lifting her up the ramp - she scrabbled up and stood like an angel, tied up, travelled like a true professional and unloaded sweat free and calm.

So I don't think its necessarily a bad way of doing the loading IF its an emergency or a one off, have also witnessed it done by professional horse transporters with a friend's horses and both went in without even realising what was happening, it was done that professionally, but it certainly isn't a long term solution for a normal owner who needs their horse to load just with them. I feel it has to be done by people who completely understand what they are doing.

Anyway, so home she came and then it was hmmmm now how are we going to handle loading for the future. I like my horses to be able to be loaded by one person, I don't want a future horse that I have to worry about having people around to "help", so a long term solution was essential.

Firstly I didn't even take her near a box again for about 4 months, in that time I built up her trust, introduced her to poles, tarpaulin (although that is still a work in progress) and gentle moving off of pressure etc like Richard Maxwell advocates - not any strong NH pressure type stuff though which I dislike. All mixed up with click/treats.

Got the lorry out again a month ago and my filly was eek I don't know how to do this still, but due to the work in hand was calmer, more trusting and more open to listening, so with no pressure at all, except just gently bringing her back to face the ramp any time she moved sideways etc, I just stood and waited, with her much loved pink feed bucket and my niece just very quietly and gently placed a foot on the ramp, let her stand, back off if she wanted - repitition, but with minimum pressure.

Eventually that day she loaded 2 times and finished on a half load - top of the ramp - I felt at that point she had lost focus so didn't ask for a full load.

I then left it another month or so before I tried again - happened this time to be a trailer as friend had hers out - my filly with just me, walked in to the trailer calmly within minutes with again no pressure on the rope, just me encouraging her verbally from inside the trailer.

Another few weeks passed and I tried her again in the lorry and she loaded 6 or 7 times after an initial delaly and some up and downs of the ramp - all done quietly and calmly.

With her, it has been better to get the pressure/release/manners type work in away from the box, then when at the box as long as she is standing calmly at the bottom, drop virtually all pressure and entice her up with food and if necessary someone quietly and most importantly gently placing her feet on the ramp.

I am fairly confident now that this filly will soon be virtually self loading and importantly for me, calmly and quietly - no rushing on or off, even if she backs off a bit hesitant, she is doing it slowly. Most definitely now I know her well, too much upping of the pressure and force, would provoke a big reaction and a lot more tenseness and rushing. I don't want that, she's going to be a big girl, I want her reactions around and on the box to be measured, slow and calm, so time, small chunks of work as others have said has worked for me. I find with teaching her most things, she is better doing a little, learning that bit, having some down time from that particular thing to let it settle in her brain and so far she has never come back to anything having to "relearn" it, and always in a place to fit the next bit of the jigsaw in place, even though it can be weeks or months between.

One thing I took away from watching a few Richard Maxwell clips, is to give them time with no pressure to think things through, don't keep asking constantly for what you want.

Oh and for the record she's a "dumb-blood" and so far with 99% of things, I've only had to teach her once or even not at all and she calmly and intelligently remembers and doesn't have to be told again, but what my dumb-blood doesn't take kindly to is someone not taking the time to fully explain what is required (something I have fallen foul of with her and have learnt my lesson I hope well).

 

[thehorseloader]

In my experience I would rather a horse have been 'bundled' on to transport professionally/safely as a foal with its mum or as a yearling/young horse than not to have travelled at all by the age of 4 or 5yr old. It goes without saying that in doing this you must offer the foal/young horse a perfect travelling environment so that they have a good first experience. ie nice spacey box/trailer, good footing and careful driving. At least they have had a chance to get their 'sea legs' at a young age, experience keeping their balance and accustom themselves to the roof overhead etc. Even if it does become a matter of training them to negotiate the ramp in the future I don't think this is as hard to deal with as a horse that is petrified once it enters the trailer/box.

 

[pip6]

The trailer is an extra large Ifor 2 horse, so it is wider & has a lot more head height, large & spacey it definately is. She is only a yearling, although already nearing 15hh if not there already. She has a very sweet nature, wants to work & please. we have tried gently placing a foot, but she becomes insecure & rushes back (very used to being trimmed by farrier so not a lack of handling before that one is suggested). She is very well handled & used to working in a halter being led down the lane reguarly (purely for educational reasons, no need to leave the farm). The trailer is always attached to the landy when loading so it is a very stable platform. Ramp is always on a level surface so no movement, all doors open so she can see through.

There are only ever 2 people there (not a livery yard) who are comfortable with horses (last thing we need is someone who is nervous about), so scooping up is not an option. To be frank I wouldn't want to bring anyone else in as many deem themselves 'expert' & try to take over even though they don't take time to assess the horse in front of them (haven't we all seen it at shows? As soon as one decides to be reluctant the experts descend to 'help' with a surefire method).

There is something about how this girl is perceiving the ramp, because she would try to please if she felt she could, it's her nature.