:) yet another confidence thread! Please help, show season is comingggg!!!

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sophiebailey

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Hiya everyone!

Hoping some of you super confident riders can help a wimpy wuss out!!

I'm still having problems finding my brakes :( I can't remember the last time in I enjoyed a nice canter whilst out hacking .... the past 6 months have been a blur of whooshing around fields with the wind + terror making my eyes water!!

**just to mention at this point, Bailey's saddle was made to measure and is checked every 3 months, last checked in mid-dec. His teeth are great and his back is sound, back lady + physio comes once every three months and only problem we've had is with one of his shoulders hence regular visits ... shoulder has improved dramatically since August and is hardly ever stiff now!**

I'm having regular lessons and canter is not too much of a problem in the school, we still go a lot faster than I would like and i've not yet achieved any collected canter but my seat is better and i'm not bouncing around any more. Out hacking he terrifies me! I haven't even trotted in a field for about 2 months because as soon as i squeeze for trot we launch forward into gallop!!

I'm at my wits end :( I try and hold him in a trot (half halts etc etc) but after a few strides he just beats me and takes off and i feel so out of control because there's no brakes/steering! Hence why I haven't cantered out for a long time, I don't feel safe.

I've tried changing bits from a pelham to a pee wee to a snaffle and back again and none seem to make any difference.

I really, really want to do some ridden showing this season (just a veteran class) but am seriously panicking that as soon as we start to canter in the show piece i'm going to lose control and end up looking a fool!

How have other people overcome this? I really don't know where to turn next. I know it's a rider problem as although he does it occasionally with my mum he doesn't do it 100% of the time like he does with me, and when my instructor rode him he took off with her but she pulled him up after a few strides and he trotted the length of the field and back (albeit with his head stuck as far up in the air as it could get!!!)

Any/all advice welcome, feeling very down about a show season that I should be looking forward to :( :( :(

**any food your heart desires for reading my thread**
 
Oh dear, I know it can be quite frightening having no brakes. Is he like this alone and in company and do you think he gets excited or being naughty?
 
Tiffany said:
Oh dear, I know it can be quite frightening having no brakes. Is he like this alone and in company and do you think he gets excited or being naughty?
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He's like it alone and in company, if i'm hacking with a horse that doesn't mind having a gingercob rammed up his bum then I can pull in behind them and use them as a pace-setter so to speak, but if i lead the canter or we canter side by side the same thing happens. I haven't cantered him in company since December when he took off across a field and my friend's horse got upset and started bucking. I felt awful that I may have put her in danger, she stayed on though.

I have no idea if it's excitement or naughtiness. He never bucks or anything like that as he goes forward, he just launches and goes very very fast!
 
Don't take this the wrong way but for now, I'd stick to in-hand showing. It will help to build your confidence without putting you or any-one else in danger.
It does sound to be a schooling issue, rather a pain issue, so perhaps the best person to help would be your instructor.
I would have recommended a PeeWee bit but you've already tried that. Did you use 2 reins with your Pelham?
 
Can you go out with a friendly horse as a front buffer and do lots of very short trots (five or ten strides) coming back to walk and walking until he's calm before the next short trot? Once he's okay doing that (and I'd do several days of dozens of repetitions a day to be sure), try making the gap slightly wider (take baby steps!) and the trots slightly longer and build up from there. Basically make trotting something very routine that doesn't lead to anything. At the same time, do lots and lots of trot-canter-trot transitions, and work on keeping him calm until canter isn't an issue at all in the school, before you think of introducing it outside.

If you want to try trotting with you in front, perhaps ask for a short trot right at the end of a field with a large barrier in front of you, so that he's forced to pull up even if he does get out of hand? Make sure you're with a steady-Eddie type who can be trusted to stay calm and absolutely not try and race even if yours gets excited.

I would forget about cantering outside until you've got the trot nailed, for the sake of giving him a clear message as well as keeping your confidence up!

What about doing some walk-trot dressage tests to get him out and about and build confidence for both of you until you crack the cantering issue?
 
I would keep working on the canter in the school, if you can gain control there, at all times, then start to gradually trust him more you can try letting him go on and bringing him back to you.
Once that is mastered you should be more able to deal with open spaces, get your instructor or someone competent to hack him a bit, maybe after he has done some school work. They must be in control though and keep him listening,, doing transitions walk to trot back to walk then trot to canter and back to walk keeping his attention, this will help when you try and you can do the same.
When he has worked well in the school just go for short walks outside and try a trot when you feel you can, have a target, just 10 strides of trot then 20 the next time until you can go as far as you want. Dont expect too much too soon, be happy with tiny steps in the right direction.
 
Have you tried having some lessons on the lunge? I know from my experiences it is very easy to tip forward when they take off and actually end up encouraging them on. If you are on the lunge it can help you deepen your seat and sit up taller if you feel him speeding up as you know he can't actually go anywhere. Good luck.
 
This is great thanks guys, I'm really appreciative of all of your ideas!!

I took him out of the pelham almost as soon as I got him as with me not being the most stable of riders I didn't want to risk yanking at his mouth with double reins, and I know roundings kind of void the purpose of the pelham, I think we had him in it for about a month before changing it. When we put the pee wee in there was an improvement for 2/3 weeks, but then back to the same behaviour. :( We did a season of in hand showing last season and enjoyed it, but as Bailey is cracking on for 21 I really want to ride this season and overcome my demons. But as you said, if I can't control the canter I could be putting other people at risk and I don't want to do that, so I want to sort this before April for my first show. I'm entirely unsure as to how he'll act in a show environment when being ridden!

We're doing our first walk and trot test on the 26th Feb so hopefully this will go well. Our practise sessions have been good so far apart from a few canters up the centre line when we should be in medium walk :|

Thanks for all the tips so appreciated x
 
Spiritedly said:
Have you tried having some lessons on the lunge? I know from my experiences it is very easy to tip forward when they take off and actually end up encouraging them on. If you are on the lunge it can help you deepen your seat and sit up taller if you feel him speeding up as you know he can't actually go anywhere. Good luck.
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Will get onto my instructor! Thank you x
 
I have the exact same problems. Well things are improving.

What's improved; he's responded really well to a happy mouth Dutch gag, second ring. I ride really light so only use when needed...
Half halting instead of pulling back like a steam train works so much better, he fights me if I pull back without giving and taking...
I found every time he took off I'd grip my legs without realising, ushering him to speed up, I've corrected that now as well.

Hope this may help xx
 
Thank you very much Troyseph that's all great, I would imagine I probably grip with my legs too!! Have you managed to control your canters now then? I just want to enjoy riding in the open again instead of bricking it! xxx
 
I've not cantered yet, (not recently since we started our regime) im still working on our sloooooow trots and transition, lots of them, he has NO patience and can have no manners at times, he thinks he's king of the road, cars must move for him and he will not wait, so I make him wait all the time now, he Hates it, and only when I say go he goes, he's obviously been taught bad habits,

Canters another story because he used to be an ex pacer, so he's very strong but also before he gets into canter he does this stupidly fast extended trot that's so hard to ride to bareback (I haven't ridden in a saddle for ages as haven't found one to fit)

Plus his canters fast and choppy, need to try and get him collected, but for now baby steps :)

Focusing on lots of walk/trot transitions, keeping him on the bit, pole work etc is working really well xx

Don't run before you can walk is what I say, build up on your basics, canter can wait until later, there's no rush, and as someone else said, there's always inland this year xxx
 
Firstly, ridden novice classes don't normally expect you to canter, so if you can manage WT dressage you should manage them - to get some eperience and confidence in the ring. Secondly, veterans aren't galloped, which is a very good thing for you - one less thing to worry about!

Honestly, I'd practice in the pelham with double reins in the school and try that out hacking - you only need the curb rein when he tries to sod off - you could even leave it knotted on his neck until you need it. If he sticks his head up, have you tried a standing to keep his nose down (and give you a chance to keep control). You really could use a confident buddy who you don't have to worry about if you do have problems - someone you can rely on not to make matters worse, and just forget about if you run into trouble.

Whilst this may be a contentious suggestion, ime horses who act like this are vastly improved by being able to do it - preferably regularly! Is there anyone who is confident who you could trust to take him somewhere for a good blast to try and get it out of his system?

Finally, you don't mention how he's kept / how much work / turnout / feed. He clearly has excess energy - which you may be able to address by cutting out feed / increasing turnout or lunging before hacking - and personally I favour trotting a horse out on the roads where they're (usually) calmer to take the edge off before you hit the field.
 
Can some one take him out for a good hoon? To get it out of his system or go on a long hack with him and do lots of canter so its not an exciting thing? Other than that I always find my self laughing at the pony and his silly antics any chance you could try that sort of outlook? It relaxes you and then he should relax with you I know thats not as easy as it sounds.
Ask your instructor to show you how to ride him in his pellham with two reins so that you feel more confident using it and if in doubt shove a neck strap on to shove a finger under when you panick so you dont use the reins.
 
Agree with the blast idea, I do allow my boy a good gallop when I'm feeling brave enough being bareback ;) as long as it's a nice long field il just sit forward hands forward n go, n not even worry about stopping :) x
 
Ahhh great ideas everyone! I did wonder about getting a friend to 'razz' him around a few fields and let him run it out of his system but wasn't sure if that would help or hinder the cause! I do occasionally let him go for a gallop with me if we're on a long straight or a hill, but again I was worried that the more I did this, the more he'd get it into his brain that he could gallop everywhere so I stopped doing that!

In terms of feed/routine etc - he's fed once a day (scoop of calm +condition and a scoop of chaff) and a small chunk of hay in the evening (more frequently if the ground is frozen) He's turned out 24/7, ridden once during the week by my mum, and twice at the weekend with me. As the nights get longer he's ridden more often in the week as I can go down after work!

After he's gone for a good 'leg stretch' .... with me hanging on board, I try and laugh it off but sometimes I think i'm kidding myself because during the event i'm bloody terrified! lol :) will ask my instructor about learning to ride with double reins and see if i can have a few lessons in double reins!

Thanks for all the tips i'm going to be putting some of these into practice soon xxxx
 
Do you bridge your reins? Might be the bit of extra control you need (I speak as a super wimp who thinks you are very brave as I would have got someone else to hack him out by now :D)
 
If you aren't confident to ride with two reins but he was previously ridden safely in a pelham I would suggest you try him in a Kimblewick. Look for a Uttoxeter Kimblewick, the one with the slots. This is a curb bit that is designed to be used with one rein, it isn't overly harsh but it is a great bit for stopping horses/ponies who tend to tank off. Especially ones that tend to do it with their head in the air. I would also try him in a standing martingale if he tends to put his head up to get away from you. This isn't correct for showing or dressage but you can switch him into something suitable when you are feeling more confident.

In terms of getting him a bit less WAAAAYHAAY in open spaces I would get someone more confident, your mum or instructor to school him in fields so he gets used to the fact that open grassy spaces don't just mean having a hooley. They can mean that and I agree that he needs to be able to let of steam from time to time but he also needs to learn to work in a field if you are to have any hope of showing him under saddle.

In your lessons learn a show peice for showing and aim to be able to do that in an open field before you take him to a show. Make sure you get your position really secure in canter so lots of work without stirrups to get you sitting up with your lower leg secure. You will be much more able to stop him if you can sit deep and stay upright rather than tipping forward.

In the meantime get your mum or instructor to make him school really quite hard in the fields so they become less about fun and more about work, have him doing lots of transitions so he doesn't start thinking about bombing off the minute he is asked for a faster pace. Lots of walk - canter - walk especially to get him listening and balanced.

When they have him responsive and obedient then you try schooling him the field but don't even try canter until you can reliably have him doing walk - trot - walk transitions. When you start cantering him only do short canters, preferably on a circle to help you keep control and ask him to canter as you would in the school, sit up and ask him to collect so he knows it isn't a hooley.

I would try to make sure that when he is having a blast you/mum/instructor don't let him go until you ask, but when you do take a forward seat (bridge your reins too) and then sit down and up to slow him. This helps keep it separate in his mind from his schooling/showing canter where you will be sitting up and deep and holding. Once he has had a blast make him walk or trot and do some transitions to test the brakes. Make sure you aren't letting him have a blast in the same place every time, sometimes make him work rather than having fun.

You'll get there in the end, but don't put too much pressure on yourself to have him ready for the first show. Do a dressage test instead if you aren't confident of stopping on grass in the open. If the dressage is on a surface try a prelim test and see how the canter is before you try a showing class that requires a canter on grass.
 
I had the same problem with Spot, he could be really really strong once he got going, a few things I tried, more canter work out in fields, short ones, where my friend would lead on her horse who doesnt kick out, so he could get right up my friends horses bum if he wanted to but had no where to run off too as he was in the way, putting your stirrups up a couple of holes really helps and it makes you more stable in the saddle when you go into your light seat, or stay in the saddle will hopefully give him the signal 'we're not galloping', he's in a pelham with the chain on 3rd, with a flash on to stop him getting a hold of the bit, also I used strong half halts, a sharp yank and release until he got the message, the more we did out in the fields, I felt more secure in the saddle, he learned to get the message when I said woah he did as he was told, and now he is excellent I can take him out control his speed to exactly what I want and he comes back when I ask him. I now enjoy it when he is fizzy and we've got an open corn field and I can just let him go for it :D :D hope it works for you too :D
 
oh i also used to have this problem in the show ring too, i was doing a ridden class, doing my individual show, and I decided a canter up to where the judges where standing would look good (canter to halt right in front of them), he started charging up, omg I thought I was going to run the judge over as she stood her ground! haha! but he did a beautiful downwards transition and it did look good :D (i won the class) but the work i did in the fields with the control really helped him become more obeident and not rude!! :D lol!!
 
What about teaching him to come back to trot on the lunge from a verbal command only then transfer this to ridden in the school before trying open spaces. Use a clicker and reward a quicker and quicker response, with a click and treat, then get someone on the ground to click for you when you transfer this to the ridden.
 
I wouldn't worry as much about cantering in the show ring, most rings at local shows are small and veteran classes usually attract a lot of people, so your be cantering around with quite a few people. My horse gets strong out in the open but when he's cantering around a ring with ten other horses he listens to me more. I use a jointed Pelham with a peanut and double reins, dont use a straight bar as they lean on them. Sit up straight and use your body to slow him down, make him go into the corners and use half halts. Your horse needs to work on the bit to show him in a ridden class and you should have more control over him when he is working on the bit as apposed to having his head up in the air. I'm sure your be fine, give a class a go, maybe a novice showing class first and see what happens, then you can improve from there.
 
Thanks guys even more great advice for me to take on board !!

Think i'm deffo going to ask about riding double reins for showing, i'm sure if I get in a bit of practice now I could pull it off.

Thanks guys x
 
OK, if your guy is a veteran he is highly unlikely to stop trying this behaviour at his time of life. I know my 36 year old never stopped doing it, he just gradually ran out of energy to go as far.

I had lessons on him, schooled him, let him gallop for miles across the moors, nothing really helped. In fact the fitter he got the worse he got. Have to say he was never dangerous as he just went in a straight line, he would however jump anything you ran him into to stop. I just resigned myself to the fact that he loves to run and warned anyone hacking with me what might happen.

We started veteran show classes with him when he was 29 and we thought he had slowed down enough, he hadn't.

Feed has never mattered he is the same on fresh air as two buckets of oats.

My tips are use a Pelham with both reins. Dont use the normal thin curb rein, put something on you can really get hold of, I use continental web reins. If you are really in trouble just drop the snaffle rein and use the curb. Always wear good non slip gloves. When in a showing class get him in behind something large and keep him there. Dont be temped to pass a slow horse, go past one and they tend to keep going. Dont go in classes with a gallop, you probably wont get him back. Watch your indivual show and try to keep working in circles or figures of eight, if you go round the whole ring you might loose it. Shorten your stirrups.

And finally be like my daughter, I always told her to smile when something goes wrong and pretend she meant to do it. The last time she showed my old lad she did 6 canter figure of eights (only meant to do 1) complete with flying changes (not planned) was obvious to everyone she was completely out of control BUT the smile never slipped :D :D :D
 
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