YO's and liability

[Ginn]

Just a quickie (I hope).

While I was away, Tilly, apparently, headbutted my YO's hand. At the time it swelled up and YO said she had to take the following day off work (though didn't see a doctor/get it x-rayed). She briefly mentioned the incident when Icame back in conversation but it wasn't discussed further till yesterday when she informed me she hadn't been payed for the day off work and as it was still a little swollen she'd been to see the doctor who said it was probably nothing but if the swelling hasn't gone down in a few weeks he'll send her for an x-ray to rule out she hasn't chipped the bone.

She then went on to ask me about insurance and hinted that she may be wanting to make a claim on it for any time off work she's missed.

However, both mum and I feel that a) I pay her for keeping Tilly on her yard and b) horses will be horses and accidents will happen. Also, we have no proof it was Tilly just her word (it may have been the other horse that her friend has leant her as a favour to keep tilly company).

I (stupidly) don't have a contract with her as she is a good friend and neighbour and I thought we had a relationship based on trust and I an understand it if she ends up having to have the hand treated surgically and needs to take a few weeks off work unpaid but Im just not sure where I stand on this one.

Also, does anyone have any sample livery agreements as Im thinking that it may be any idea to have one!

 

[dieseldog]

Blimey. I think you are going to be looking for a new yard because this isn't going to end nicely. I would contact your insurance company and let them deal with it, the first thing they will say is don't discuss it with her.

Bad Luck.

 

[ruscara]

I would imagine you are insured for third party injury. So contact your insurance company asap and let them know that there might be a claim coming. Then if your YO does decide to claim, she can help you fill in the claim form. If you look in your small print with your policy, it will give you an idea what they will pay out. I guess that is why we take out insurance.

I agree, though. It is always wise to have a livery agreement, even though your YO is a friend. However, I am not sure a livery agreement would cover injuries like this.

 

[Ginn]

Have just spoken to my insurers and the only way my YO can make a cliam is if she can prove negligence (since accidents aren't covered and YO knows that T is a typical 2yo tb!) or if she has her own personal accident insurance.

So where does that leave me???

Surely, at worst all she can do is ask me to leave the yard as if I was negligent she could make a claim and if not then Im not liable?

 

[pocket]

As a yard owner, she should have her own insurance to cover her for this type of problem, in the same way as we have public liability etc I would think. When you work with horses, you should expect the unexpected, horses are dangerous animals. I was kicked in the face by my youngster ( no shoes thank god ) and ended up with a facial fracture. I was covered on my insurance for dental work etc.

I would be very concerned if I was at this yard, does she have any insurance at all? She also needs public liability insurance for straying and causing accidents etc etc.

Definatily check it out with your insurance company and then move asap, sounds dodgy.

 

[jacks_mum]

surely as you were away and Tilly had been left in her care, then any negligence would be on the YO's part not yours?

 

[Ginn]

She does have public liablity (she's neurotic about that!) and had personal injury with her horses policies which are now void since both of her 2 were pts a few weeks ago.

 

[allijudd]

will pm you my livery contract.......

 

[pocket]

How can it be your fault? She took on your horse knowing its age etc! She should not be working/running a yard if she cant handle horses. So please dont blame yourself, it makes me so made when people you trust are incompetent.

I was forced to move yards last May. I had been at my yard for 17 years and all my horses had grown up on that yard, were happy and settled. Unfortunately, the YO died and the yard was sold to a PIG.

I moved the horses out to a quiet yard, with only 8 horses, but was forced to sell my baby ( a very traumatic time). I was informed that the HEAD GIRL was competent around horses........ I went on holiday to come home to two nervous wrecks and a horse with the worse thrush I have ever seen, which took me a good 6 months to sort out.

Obviously, I moved and my new yard has a few issues, but my horse ( Fly my pony passed away at Christmas - not sure if it was the stress). Ralph is so settled and the YO is very sweet and conscious of all horse matters.

So....my god I waffle when I get going... Please dont blame yourself

 

[Ginn]

See thats the thing - my YO is usually brilliant in everyway - she's normally the one pointing out risks etc (she feels that my mum who is fairly non-horsey should only go in the field with T if wearing a hat as she knows what young horses are like!). Tbh, shes gone through a lot recently losing her 2 and I know money is a bit tight as her OH was made redundant a few months back so obviously losing her income for a few weeks is not going to help matters! BUT I was under the impression that by law all employers had to provide sick pay provided the reason for it was certificated by a doctor so can't see how this is a problem.

 

[Claireg9]

We really are turning into america arent we??
This is ridiculous! She runs the yard she was doing a job and she was the one responsible for your horse.
How can she be putting in a claim. TBH her injuries dont even sound bad, i thought she was supposed to be your friend?
Id move as this is not how i would treat a friend of mine.
I know its a shame but its not your fault and i dont think she has a leg to stand on, so this could get ugly

Hard luck mate,
Hope it works out x

 

[Iestyn]

Your YO should have insurance anyway - if she gets awkward with you then ask her if she has insurance too? I know our yard owner has all sorts of insurance in case one of the livery horses happens to damage a car or someone else.

 

[vicijp]

Personally I would tell her exactly where to stick her claim.

 

[Tempi]

hey hun - i would really try and move, she sounds like shes just trying to get money out of you.....she cant even prove it was Tilly that did it, so i really wouldnt worry about it. Shes meant to be your friend, but she dosent sound like shes being very friendly to me.........

 

[Rosyryan]

Oh dear, your post brought horrible memories back for me! Point 1- you must have a livery contract, I know I it's easy for me to say that to you as I expect you didn't expect a friend to try and make a claim on you.

Point 2- she should have a personal injury ins, horse are unpredictable especially young ones.

Point 3- I believe that in taking your money you have made a contract of sorts with her and she took on the care of your horse knowing the circustances ie young etc.

 

[Lonesome_Dove]

If I was injured by someone else's horse it would never cross my mind to make a claim - unless I was crippled and could never work again! - If you get involved with horses you take the risks along with them - can't expect to never have an incident (though would be nice!).

 

[Tia]

A few things:

First of, as a yard owner, she should have her own insurance, which she will claim on if indeed a claim is made - that is exactly what her insurance is there for........however I guess she wants to claim on yours because if her's is anything like the insurance I held for my yard in the UK, the excess is something like £500 and I very much doubt she pays herself £500 for a day's work! She is looking to claim on your insurance so that you pay the excess AND it will be your premiums that will go up and not her's.

Secondly, for her to make a claim against you, she needs to prove beyond all doubt that it was your horse who injured her......VERY tall order!

Thirdly, move! I certainly wouldn't remain at a place like this - she is verging on blackmailing you!

Personally I would not discuss this with her - do NOT accept liability whatever you do. Best just brushing it off with a flippant remark like "horses will be horses!"

If you were as petty as her, you could do a touche' - can you trip on her property and "twist your ankle"

........ might give her a bit of food for thought.

 

[vicijp]

And whos to sat it wasnt her hitting your horse!?!

 

[Tia]

Excellent point Vici!!

 

[Laafet]

oh dear what a sorry situation, as a yard owner, i have public liability and custody of care - so if I accidently kill one of my liveries horses then they can get some money off my insurance and I also have my own personal injury insurance as I am self employed and if I get injured it pays for me to employ someone to do my job and a certain amount per injury. Thought this would be standard and I can't see how this incident should be anything to do with you. I got kicked in the back recently when out in the field catching one of my livery horses in full view of other liveries but didn't complain to owner just made her aware of incident as all horses are unpredictable no matter what and we all have accidents sometimes.

 

[matthew]

what an absolute bint! if i had a penny for everytime someone elses horse had nobbled me id be rich! why are we turning into america (sorryno offence to americans) were nobody takes responsability for themselves and sues everyone for everything! i think if this is her attitued she is in the wrong job!!! i hope you get it sorted out!

 

[S_N]

Urrrmmm surely the issue here is WHY was she not paid and won't be paid for sick leave?? Is that not illeagal???

 

[allijudd]

im sorry i forgot to pm you our livery contract which has been slated on a previous post because yes it is watertight....

i will do so now

i have been headbutted recently by a horse that i was holding for the vet( which we charge for) on the cheek and having 2 fractures already on that cheek it was a bit sore for a while. but it lies on my head and my insurance if i want to make a claim becasue i was handling the horse (with the owners permission)

the way our insurance is (and we asked) you are not covered handling others horses therefore someone else who is hurt by your horse is handling on there own liability unless they are a yard owner when the yo insurance should cover the yo when handling others horses.

we had incidences before where other liveries were handling others horses ad w had to find this out.