You can teach an old horse new tricks but not a dog?

[Caol Ila]

My flatmate has a 7-year old GSD-husky cross, who is a nice enough dog to live with (when he isn't begging for food), but has some quirks that make me happy that he's not my dog. Flatmate has had some animal behaviour courses, from when he was training to be an animal welfare officer, a career he never pursued, but he at least thinks he knows a lot about dog training.

For my part, I am a horse person, not a dog person. Never owned a dog or trained one, so I might not know what I'm talking about!

Flatmate and I were discussing training. He was asserting that once a dog was 20 weeks or so old, it's behaviour was more or less established, and if you wanted to retrain an adult dog, there isn't a lot you can do to alter its behaviour. "You can't teach an old dog new tricks!"

I said that people retrain adult horses all the time, and horses of all ages readily change their behaviour in response to their handlers, in good and bad ways. Who hasn't watched the trainer get on their horse and the horse all of a sudden looks like Valegro (well, not quite), or conversely, this forum is burgeoning with threads from novices bemoaning that when they tried the horse at its old owners, it was perfect, and now that it's with them, it's a nutcase.

Are horses that different from dogs? I can't imagine that a dog can't change its behaviour with consistency and boundaries.

 

[Cortez]

Yes of course you can train dogs after they are pups, perhaps not as easily or permanently. The old saying is just that, a saying not a law

 

[Caol Ila]

I was trying to gently suggest that some of this dog's quirks might be resolvable if you put the time in. Don't think Flatmate wants to. If I took the dog out myself, they would annoy me, but I don't so it's really not my circus. More of a theoretical discussion.

 

[Amye]

You can definitely train dogs after they are 20 weeks old!! We rescued a 15 month old dog and taught her tons as she'd never been in a proper home before. The people we got her off told us she was untrainable which was completely not true, she was just miserable. Once she was in a happy home she learnt lots and we had to start from scratch teaching recall and leave etc. She's the most well behaved out of our two and the other we've had since a pup.

When I was younger we had a rescue dog at 5 years old. She had the basics established but we still taught her 'fun' tricks etc. I've known older dogs that are terrible food stealers and they can be turned around.

As they get older their behaviours do become established and it is more difficult to teach them things but it's not impossible at all. You just have been consistent and patient

 

[smja]

It's doable but does take longer - the horse analogy would be the bolshy 8yo that's not been backed, or the 12yo ex-RS pony, or the 5yo ex-racer. You need to replace old behaviour with what you want, rather than starting with a blank canvas, so it's less straightforward.

Also, depending on how long the undesirable behaviour has been going on/how ingrained it is, they may revert to it at times of uncertainty or stress...like when they get a new owner/handler or face a new situation.

 

[MotherOfChickens]

Agree with smja although I'd add that dog breeds have often been selected for specific jobs over many generations. so if this particular dog's 'problems' are say, typical husky behaviour-training him out of that may well be impossible but might have been in the first place.
socialisation problems that happen before 20 weeks can be difficult to overcome.

 

[MargotC]

I agree. Older dogs can absolutely adjust when given the chance but it takes consistency and making the routine familiar and second nature.

Whilst not behavioural, I spent part of the previous weekend teaching my twelve year old Golden to access the car via a ramp since I am not allowed to lift him anymore and he stopped jumping a while back (he would put his front legs up on the car and expect us to assist him the rest of the way; jumping out was fine). He twigged so quickly; we started with the ramp flat on the ground and moved from there to the angle we needed. (Before anyone following my surgery thread asks; no! I am not lifting the ramp either! Mom is the one with the car.)

The owner obviously has to be inclined to put in the work.

 

[planete]

If you understand what makes an animal do what he does you can do behaviour modification at any age. It requires knowledge, empathy and an understanding of the behaviour triggers which makes it difficult for the average pet owner but far from impossible if they are willing to learn the techniques from an expert (think a good behaviourist). The biggest difficulty comes in teaching the owner. Some are really set in their ways and it is nothing to do with age!

 

[FfionWinnie]

You can alter the behaviour of any domestic animal within a few days if you know what you are doing. The less competent and consistent you are the longer it takes to alter them.

 

[Annagain]

Our dog is a rescue and was an adult when we got her. The dogs home told us she was between 1 and 2 but we don't really know. She had some training but we've definitely added a lot to that and taught her lots of new things. It's been easy as she's very bright and desperate (almost too desperate) to please. She was found wandering the streets and I'm convinced she was dumped a long way from home as twice she has escaped from two different dogsitters in our village and both times she's got home (or to my mum's) before the dogsitters have got there to look for her.

Even 10 years on, she hates raised voices. If she hears the F word she starts shaking, manically wagging her tail and cuddling up to you as if to show you how sorry and lovely she is(It's never directed at her but my OH is a bit sweary if he's annoyed at something. He tries not to as he knows it upsets her, but sometimes forgets himself). She also hates any sort of what she sees at violence. If my OH tickles me and I start 'screaming' or my nieces squabble she literally hurls herself into the middle to break it up. She's also terribly claustrophobic. It breaks my heart that whatever she endured for a few months as a young dog has had such an effect that even 10 years of a loving, caring home where she has never been shouted at or hit can't make it go away. It breaks my heart even more that she would probably have been so loyal to those people that she would have tried to make her way home to them had they not dumped her too far away.