mle22
Well-Known Member
Thanks to the last two posters for talking sense
''You little Bleep'' Video. Accidents happen
- Thread starter Fools Motto
- Start date
Luci07
Well-Known Member
I can't agree with you. I have been around horses for a very long time. I am on a pro yard and see a lot of young/competition/reschooling horses and this is not standard behaviour. End of the day, I still say we do not know the whole story and the result is a young girl with a smashed face and I do not accept comments that suggest people think (on the basis of a 10 second video) she deserved this.
Noodles_3
Well-Known Member
I don't know how anyone can make a judgement on what is the truth of the video given the short clip! I have watched it from different angles, it's however you want your mind to percept it! The girl looks aggressive, the girl doesn't look aggressive! I even could see it as a quick reaction to get back up quickly and grab the horse before he bogged off!
L&M
Well-Known Member
Having watched it several times, I am firmly in the camp that the horse was in the wrong. I have a sharp and unpredictable youngster and we have a variety of 'disagreements' as he is going through a stroppy teenage phase. Don't get me wrong I love him to bits but the air is occasionally blue when he has a 'special' moment......however he would NEVER kick out at me like that as knows that that is a line not to be crossed.
If the girl was not its regular rider, then I do not understand the assumption that they had a negative relationship - yes she did swear at it but she did not chase it with a whip or lunge at in an overly aggressive manner, and certainly did nothing to warrant such a reaction from the horse.
However the video does serve as a harsh reminder of what our beloved beasts are capable of.
If the girl was not its regular rider, then I do not understand the assumption that they had a negative relationship - yes she did swear at it but she did not chase it with a whip or lunge at in an overly aggressive manner, and certainly did nothing to warrant such a reaction from the horse.
However the video does serve as a harsh reminder of what our beloved beasts are capable of.
ozpoz
Well-Known Member
I watched it twice. It was not a surprise that it kicked her and she was lucky to have escaped serious injury.
I would not want her to be around my horses until she had learned to control her temper and to keep hold of her safety awareness.
I thought the horse was acting defensively - it the ones that kick you on the way down or on the ground that are aggressive.
I would not want her to be around my horses until she had learned to control her temper and to keep hold of her safety awareness.
I thought the horse was acting defensively - it the ones that kick you on the way down or on the ground that are aggressive.
Cortez
Tough but Fair
Horses should not kick people, any more than they should bite, barge, strike or otherwise act aggressively. I have dealt with several abused horses and none of them have ever attempted to kick.
Honey08
Waffled a lot!
I saw that on Facebook last week. I thought it was a hideous clip to watch. I feel that the girl was an over aggressive, hot tempered idiot, I wouldn't want her anywhere near my horses, but I also think that the horse was a bit naughty in its general behaviour, it isn't a generous/honest horse. I don't think that it would have kicked out if she hadn't run at it aggressively though. Not a nice thing to witness though, I expect that she was pretty badly hurt.
Cinnamontoast
Fais pas chier!
Oh my god, that's awful to watch, on all counts, including how the person filming calmly carries on when she's kicked in the face. 
I hope she's ok.
I hope she's ok.
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paddi22
Well-Known Member
when she gets up and runs towards it - i was thinking ive probably done the same a load of times i've fallen off in a field. often your adrenaline or shock from the fall doesn't have you thinking straight and often my first instinct would be to get to the horse quickly and get the reins so it can't run off onto road etc. Once i get up my first instinct is usually to get the horse safe. I never in a million years would even consider that a 'normal' horse might do this.
laura_nash
Well-Known Member
As a teenager I was badly attacked by a horse I knew fairly well. I was changing its rug late evening as a last minute favour to its owner and was a bit p**d off about it so stomped into the stable in a huff. We later discovered (caught him at it) that a new stable hand who did the evening stables was beating the horse. He had always been fine before and was okay afterwards though needed some extra handling work to get him over the trauma. I never blamed the horse, it was my fault for stomping into the stable in a huff (and I definitely learned an important lesson there) and most of all the guy who beat the horses fault. I was lucky in that the teeth and hooves connected with my arm and shoulder rather than my face, but I think it is very unfair and unrealistic to say a horse should never defend itself or act aggressively in any way even if abused.
tallyho!
Following a strict mediterranean diet...
I'm in the "never blame the horse" camp.
Only because humans brains are slightly bigger.
Only because humans brains are slightly bigger.
Regandal
Well-Known Member
Nothing to do with the video, but I read somewhere that horses react to the 'vibe' of human anger with fear. Unsurprisingly.
Illusion100
Well-Known Member
Watched this vid a few times and still stand by that you reap what you sow. Made my non-horsey OH watch vid and he thought the horse was scared of being hit again.
Wisdom oft come from the mouth of babes.
I am actually very surprised of many of the replies as well. 'I would not expect/tolerate/train' etc a horse that kicked out at a human, no matter the perceived threat, no matter the situation.
I fail to understand the line of human tolerance to equine instinct.
If one horse crossed the line with another and didn't listen to obvious 'don't attack me' warnings and then 'defender' had to boot it to get the point across, what's the difference?
Do posters believe that when around humans, horses must lose their natural instincts just to conform to our ideal?
I don't need to see anything longer than this clip to see why this horse reacted the way it did. Pride often comes before a fall. The vid shows wounded pride and the possible consequence of that human emotion. The horse only reacted with instinct.
If I was that rider and put myself in that situation, reacted the same way and got kicked, I'd blame myself.
Wisdom oft come from the mouth of babes.
I am actually very surprised of many of the replies as well. 'I would not expect/tolerate/train' etc a horse that kicked out at a human, no matter the perceived threat, no matter the situation.
I fail to understand the line of human tolerance to equine instinct.
If one horse crossed the line with another and didn't listen to obvious 'don't attack me' warnings and then 'defender' had to boot it to get the point across, what's the difference?
Do posters believe that when around humans, horses must lose their natural instincts just to conform to our ideal?
I don't need to see anything longer than this clip to see why this horse reacted the way it did. Pride often comes before a fall. The vid shows wounded pride and the possible consequence of that human emotion. The horse only reacted with instinct.
If I was that rider and put myself in that situation, reacted the same way and got kicked, I'd blame myself.
ImmyS
Well-Known Member
*like*
little_critter
Well-Known Member
It probably depends on what the horse was expecting to happen next. If in the past people have just grabbed the reins to keep him safe then this reaction would be extreme.
If in the past people have grabbed the reins and then given him a hiding then this reaction is self preservation.
SpringArising
Well-Known Member
I wondered the same and completely agree.
The horse has only one way to show how he's feeling and I don't expect any them to stop acting like horses for my benefit.
If this horse was tied up and booted someone just for walking behind him, that's a different ball game and I would not tolerate that.
But this kick was warranted. She was angry, was shouting and expressed threatening body language. That horse was just doing all it knew to protect himself.
Wagtail
Horse servant
Excellent, well reasoned post. *like*
Wagtail
Horse servant
I have read that this horse had had a back operation and the girl in question had been told not to ride it. I don't know if this is true or not, but would explain the broncking and initial tail swishing.
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
That's interesting. My first thought on seeing the broncing was that the horse was reacting to a pinching saddle or similar.
IME horses can get quite anxious and upset after their rider falls off, and may react abnormally through stress. The rider put herself in danger by approaching the horse from behind.
saltpetres
Well-Known Member
Hmm! I wonder. My initial reaction was "Oooh, that horse has a sore back!" That really tight upright hoppy kind of buck reaction was identical to my friend's boy who turned out to have damaged vertebrae, and my lad when I tried him in a new saddle that turned out didn't fit too well - also the fact that he stopped and settled as soon as she came off? Pain reaction?
Who knows, I guess, but a kick to the face is so utterly horrific to watch. I feel sorry for both of them, and also think they both acted poorly - I've never ever seen a horse react as severely as that either (even when helping start totally unhandled youngsters) but we all know it can happen. Her body (and mouth) language was dreadful. I've gotten cross at horses (well, ponies, usually, ponies have the actual devil in them, bless 'em) many times (usually for things a lot worse than that...) but yeah, she was pretty darn scary. It's much harder to lay "blame" as such on a horse, as almost across the board in my experience, their bad behaviour is caused by us humans - even if we don't realise we are causing it (unless the horse has a mental issue causing aggression). Most horses LEARN aggression, don't they, usually they learn to give as good as they get :/
(!!!!Don't read this paragraph if you don't like graphically hearing about injuries!!!!) My friend used to work at a racing stable when she was 16 and was putting a youngster into the walker and was reaching down to close the gate behind him and somehow got double barreled straight in the face. Totally accidental, not aggressive on the horse's part at all, just a slip of judgement I guess. It was truly AWFUL, all her front teeth were knocked up into her nasal cavity and it took a great deal of reconstructive surgery and metal plates to put her face back together. Her cheek and lip were torn into a flap by the shoes and her nasal bones were pushed up towards her brain - VERY lucky to be alive. She was so beautiful before. She's 23 now and still has a massive scar across her lip and chin - she's still beautiful, but she looks like a completely different person, it's totally changed her face. It has a massive psychological impact on her also. So, I can't possibly say the girl in this video "deserved it". She certainly was acting very stupidly and nastily whatever the circumstances, and really, I think she should have expected some sort of unpleasant reaction in response to her own unpleasant reaction - but especially after seeing this kind of injury first hand, there is no way she "deserved" this kind of trauma. Good lord.
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Honey08
Waffled a lot!
Further to my earlier comments, I wanted to add that while it would be nice to expect your horses not to behave in that way, it is foolish to put yourself in a position where it could. ALL horses, however well trained, can do something unexpected. A very good horsewoman and BHSI, senior BHS examiner was found dead in her field near us many years ago, she'd been turning a youngster out and got kicked. You just never know what horse will do. To put yourself in a position where the horse feels scared and threatened only amplifies the odds of you getting kicked or hurt. (Not at all saying the BHSI was threatening or scaring the horse!)
fathorselover
Well-Known Member
Wow. Very sobering, your friend was very lucky. I can't say I think the girl in the video acted well at all, but I wouldn't wish a kick in the face on anyone.
springtime1331
Well-Known Member
A nasty business all round. I have taken to wearing my skull cap to turn out and bring in my youngster and will keep wearing it.
Abby-Lou
Well-Known Member
me too
_HP_
Well-Known Member
Ouch poor girl...
Looks like both the horse and rider acted on adrenaline and in the moment.
I wonder what made the horse bronc in the first place...
My horse, who I've owned for 17 yrs, bit me for the first time ever last year. A proper bite that left me with a huge bruised swelling on my leg. He was mortified straightaway...ran off a few strides, turned and looked at me (swearing and blinding and trying not to faint) and then edged his way back to me.
I was applying cream to his sheath (as I do almost daily in summer)and must have caught a sore bit (sweet itch)and he reacted instinctively...a split second thing.
Horses do these sorts of things...sometimes completely out of character. It just depends if it's out of character and that's what we don't know here.
Has this horse done this before....has she?
Looks like both the horse and rider acted on adrenaline and in the moment.
I wonder what made the horse bronc in the first place...
My horse, who I've owned for 17 yrs, bit me for the first time ever last year. A proper bite that left me with a huge bruised swelling on my leg. He was mortified straightaway...ran off a few strides, turned and looked at me (swearing and blinding and trying not to faint) and then edged his way back to me.
I was applying cream to his sheath (as I do almost daily in summer)and must have caught a sore bit (sweet itch)and he reacted instinctively...a split second thing.
Horses do these sorts of things...sometimes completely out of character. It just depends if it's out of character and that's what we don't know here.
Has this horse done this before....has she?
ljohnsonsj
Well-Known Member
The horse reacted the way a horse should in the given situation. Nobody is 'judging' her and hell, nobody deserves a broken face! BUT, what else did she expect chasing upto the horse like that. I don't know a horse that wouldn't of kicked out.
Annagain
Well-Known Member
I don't think one of mine would have. Strangely he is the one I call the thug. He's opinionated and resistant at times but he's not got a nasty bone in his body and I'm pretty certain would have just run. I've never seen him kick out - not even in the field when they're all playing / fighting. He just runs away. The one who's a saint to ride I wouldn't put it past as he's very handy with all his legs in the field so obviously has it in him. Having said that neither of mine have every been treated like that.
I stilll feel guilty about getting back on mine after falling off due to what I thought was a dirty stop and really getting after him to go over the fence. The next day he was hopping lame. He had 8 months of field rest and all sorts of treatment and 7 years later he's never jumped more than the odd log out hacking. I feel terrible that I didn't realise he was tellling me it hurt and made him carry on. Deliberately running at him in anger is a whole different level.
9tails
Well-Known Member
I think if my horse was treated in this way she would kick out too. I trust her implicitly, but then I don't treat her like that.
cobgoblin
Bugrit! Millennium hand and shrimp.
Just watched the video several times and I think if she had just got up after the fall/bailout and stood there, then that horse would have come to her. She was very aggressive and the horse reacted to that. Dreadful though, and I feel very sorry for her to have sustained an injury of that scale.
Something started that bucking fit off though, I would wonder about the horse's back or saddle, it's not as if both riders were going into canter and previously they were walking quite calmly.
Something started that bucking fit off though, I would wonder about the horse's back or saddle, it's not as if both riders were going into canter and previously they were walking quite calmly.
npage123
Well-Known Member
I don't use facebook. Does anyone who was in some way involved with this say what happened with the girl (and horse) afterwards? I hope she is ok and that the horse is not being 'punished'...