Young horse - Cushings?

[sherry90]

Short history: horse is a VERY good doer so not typical of a Cushings horse and at only 6yo vets have said he’s unlikely to have it. However, for the last 2 years now, we’ve struggled with laminitis. Now last year could well easily have been down to him being overweight and the access he had to grass. Since then he’s lost a significant amount of weight, been in consistent work and has been turned out since mid April with a grazing muzzle and in of a night on soaked hay. Despite this, he did come in the other day with warm feet and a slight pulse. No footyness or lameness.

Perhaps I am being paranoid but he’s a big lad and I was lucky to have no rotation last year so he is in for a few days on soaked hay only and I’m in discussions with the yard about turning him out overnight and trying to find a dryer lot with less grass (difficult with this weather we are having) but he was on a winter paddock already with not a lot of grass.

It is almost to the day, two years ago when he had an abscess in a hind, and then again, a year ago, almost to the day, when he got laminitis. I know it’s the time of year for it, he could still do with losing a couple of KG so there are other factors at play but why the same time every year? Last year he didn’t go back into grass until August but was quite fine on the routine we have now through the autumn flush.
I also noticed the other night when his pulses were up, he had puffy legs, not swollen put certainly some puff to them. He gets grass glands every year in about March/early April so his lymphatic system reacts to the Spring grass. Could it be this that’s causing the pulses? I know they come from inflammation and he possibly has some low grade laminitis.
Could this be some real early indicators of Cushings?
He doesn’t necessarily have a curly coat but he does sweat a little after 30mins of schooling. He is very laid back for a 6yo and can be a little lethargic. After 30mins schooling whilst I’m skipping out the school, he almost drops off to sleep.
I am quite confident we can sort this latest flare up and tweak a few bits of his management to make it work for him but I’m just wondering if I am missing something that could be underlying?

 

[shortstuff99]

Has he been tested for equine metabolic syndrome (EMS)? That sounds more likely from what you have described then Cushing's (although it's not impossible for a young horse to get cushings).

 

[Pinkvboots]

Agree with shortstuff sounds like ems surprised your vet has not made the connection, there is a test for it but not a lot of proven treatment it's all controlled mainly by strict management, hay soaking grass restrictions and exercise.

A friend had a horse that could only have 2 hours on a bare paddock each day during spring time or when grass was growing.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

About 20 years ago, I lost a 6 yr old Shire mare to what I know believe was Cushings induced laminitis. It started with skin problems and what was considered to be a hoof abscess but eventually turned into founder. The farrier still says that he blames the vet for not recognising the underlying cause but I don't think there was a drug avaialbe at the time (which doesn't mean I think the vet did a good job) for Cushings. We never got a proper diagnosis.
Please insist that your vet does a TRH-Stim test, don't settle for the ACTH test, as that gives too many false negatives

 

[sherry90]

Sorry I should have said, he was tested for EMS last year when he had the laminitis he was negative. He didn’t have the sugar/glucose test though. It was done through bloods only (I think, my mind was a bit all over the place at the time) but he definitely didn’t have the other type of test where they feed them glucose?

I am going to try him out overnight 9pm-8am for a few days and see where we get with that, still muzzled. If his pulses are back up of a morning after that, then we will try for a few hours turnout of a morning say 8am until 12pm until the grass has calmed a bit later in the year. Such a trial and error with them ?

His pulses have completely gone now and there is no heat. Farrier is coming today to trim him. If all ok there would you say I’m ok to turn him out for a few hours? Our yard doesn’t change to overnight turnout until next week. I can box rest him until then but would prefer to get him moving if I can.

 

[sherry90]

I will definitely speak to my vet about the Cushings test. They were reluctant to do it last year as he was 5 so even younger (obviously!) and said it would be highly unlikely - but even if it’s a small possibility I think it’s worth ruling out.

Pearlsasinger - what is the difference between the two tests? What do they do to test? Bloods?

 

[meleeka]

My mini came back borderline for Cushings at 9 so I’m just keeping an eye on things. Being a Shetland he’s a good doer, but not as far as he could be, but he is very sensitive to grass He’s been better this year, but I may get him tested yearly anyway from now on, just to minimise the risk of damage from laminitis.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I will definitely speak to my vet about the Cushings test. They were reluctant to do it last year as he was 5 so even younger (obviously!) and said it would be highly unlikely - but even if it’s a small possibility I think it’s worth ruling out.

Pearlsasinger - what is the difference between the two tests? What do they do to test? Bloods?

They are both blood tests but the TRH is a fasting test. I'm sorry I can't remember how long our horse, who was in her early 20s, had to fast for before the test. I do know that we had had the ACTH test done a few times because we were suspicious that she was Cushingoid and every time it came back 'within normal levels', although slightly higher each time. The TRH -Stim test came back *8 times* the upper limit, she was immediately put onto Prascend and some of her symptoms eased quickly. TRH involves an injection as well as the blood taken.

 

[sherry90]

They are both blood tests but the TRH is a fasting test. I'm sorry I can't remember how long our horse, who was in her early 20s, had to fast for before the test. I do know that we had had the ACTH test done a few times because we were suspicious that she was Cushingoid and every time it came back 'within normal levels', although slightly higher each time. The TRH -Stim test came back *8 times* the upper limit, she was immediately put onto Prascend and some of her symptoms eased quickly. TRH involves an injection as well as the blood taken.

Thank you, I will have a chat with the vet to test. It sounds awful but I think I’d rather have an explanation as to why it appears he has some sort of issue every May!

 

[Donkeyslave]

My donkey has EMS and I put her on Magnesium Oxide light from Red Horse products. It transformed our lives! She is out in a rough paddock at the moment and on 75% barley straw 25% rough stemmy hay with a low sugar balancer. She also had lami in all four feet at the same time of year for 2years running. Then put on magnesium. No more lameness for last 3 years! When I got her she was obese with fat pads and fat roll on her neck. She has just the smallest remains of the fat pads. Her neck roll has disappeared !
The magnesium is responsible for this. I have also read on here somewhere that vit. E is very helpful but I will leave it to someone who knows about this to comment.
You can start with magnesium without a diagnosis as it will do no harm and dosage is on the box.

 

[sherry90]

My donkey has EMS and I put her on Magnesium Oxide light from Red Horse products. It transformed our lives! She is out in a rough paddock at the moment and on 75% barley straw 25% rough stemmy hay with a low sugar balancer. She also had lami in all four feet at the same time of year for 2years running. Then put on magnesium. No more lameness for last 3 years! When I got her she was obese with fat pads and fat roll on her neck. She has just the smallest remains of the fat pads. Her neck roll has disappeared !
The magnesium is responsible for this. I have also read on here somewhere that vit. E is very helpful but I will leave it to someone who knows about this to comment.
You can start with magnesium without a diagnosis as it will do no harm and dosage is on the box.

thank you that’s really helpful. He’s already on a balancer that contains magnesium (Progressive earth pro balance) but I wonder if I could try him on a little bit more. He gets extra vitamin E as he was so sluggish I feared he had PSSM but had the tests for both types and he’s negative so it was back to the drawing board on that. I did see some improvement in his forward ness with increased vitamin E.

I’ll have a look at magnesium x

 

[sherry90]

Farrier has been, he’s not lame and no soreness in the feet at all. Reckons it’s perhaps the hard ground making his pulses come up (he is a bit of a nooob in the field and has been running about quite a bit!) so I’ll ask for him to go out tomorrow Morning in his muzzle for a few hours and they can check pulses when he comes in. I’m then riding at 2pm (my one hour corona slot!) and assess things from there...
Have ordered some magnesium to add to his feed as well just incase and will speak to the vets about Cushings test/what they think when they can come back out for non emergency things.

 

[NOISYGIRL2]

My vet told me that they now say 90% of laminitis is from undiagnosed/uncontrolled PPID (Cushings) I would have a test done. There are free test vouchers available from the Care about cushings website, you will have to pay vet to draw blood but test is free