Youngster really fussy in mouth...HELP!

wispagold

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Hi

I have taken on a 5 year old that was backed 3 months ago. He has previously been beaten up and as a result is quite headshy (to the point where you have to take his bridle completely apart to put it on him). When we first started to back him we realised that as soon as we put a bit his mouth he put his tongue over it.

I have since managed to get him out of this habit by putting him in a bit where he physically couldn't do it. This wasn't ideal as he also wasn't thinking forward so now he isn't putting his tongue over I have tried him in some softer bits but he hates everything! I have tried him in a straight bar happy mouth but it rubbed him and made his mouth really sore. I think he has a fleshy mouth and a large tongue. He spends most of the time with his mouth wide open and his tongue lolling out the side of his mouth. I have no contact at all. He either has his head up in the air or tucked into his chest, dropping behind the contact.

I have tried him in a KK ultra soft he is 80% better in this on lunge but still struggling when riding him. I have tried really hard to get him more forward now but still no better in his mouth (which isn't sore now).

I am at a bit of a loss at what to do. I don't want to strap his mouth shut with a flash or drop (his nose band is quite loose) as I want him to think forward. I am going to try hacking him out more to distract him from thinking about his mouth all the time but please people offer solutions or ideas!!

Thanks in advance!
 

CrazyMare

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My 3 yr old did this - I'm afraid shes in a grackle & full cheek lozenge, and I took her out in a big field and found forwards.

I have also loose schooled her in the roundpen with side reins, and got her to really go forwards into the contact, and shes cracked it.
 

wispagold

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My 3 yr old did this - I'm afraid shes in a grackle & full cheek lozenge, and I took her out in a big field and found forwards.

I have also loose schooled her in the roundpen with side reins, and got her to really go forwards into the contact, and shes cracked it.

I think the key is definitely in the forwards. I haven't tried him in side reins, I was hoping to try some other routes before opting to strapping it shut. But half of me is thinking I might need to do this short term at least in order to break the habit and having his tongue hanging out and his mouth wide open.
 

CrazyMare

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I think the key is definitely in the forwards. I haven't tried him in side reins, I was hoping to try some other routes before opting to strapping it shut. But half of me is thinking I might need to do this short term at least in order to break the habit and having his tongue hanging out and his mouth wide open.

I'm not usually one for strapping mouths shut - and tbh her grackle is pretty loose, she can still open her mouth, just not to the extent she was before. And I couldn't get forwards as much as I wanted without the grackle.

I'm acctually thinking we can go back to the cavasson soon, as the steering, as well as forwards has been cracked. Shes only been backed 6 weeks, but the grackle has focussed her attention.

With mine, I also wonder if there was a family trait, as her mother has always been a bit mouth open (but not evasive) and has had a tendancy to put her tounge over the bit when bored. I put her in a drop earlier this year (after 11 years in a cavasson) as I got fed up of the new 'game' of tounge over the bit every 5 mins (teeth were OK)
 

kirstyl

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I take it you have had the dentist out? It's not the end of the world to put on a flash. I personally would get the basic contact established with side reins on the lunge and as other OP said get him going forwards on the lunge, and used to the contact before putting a rider on board. If he's had a difficult time, then perhaps you need to take it a bit slower and make sure the basics are in place before moving on with you on board
 

kerilli

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as above, dentist first if you haven't already.
i'd try a nathe (i much prefer them to happy mouth) with a drop noseband, first.
if you want to try a Hippus, let me know. they're like a cross between mullen and single-joint (limited hinge action) and some fussy horses just love them. not cheap at all but worth the money if it leads to a happy horse, i think.
i'd keep riding forward on the lightest possible contact until he eventually relaxes and accepts that what's in his mouth isn't lethal. have you left him (supervised) in stable for hours with bridle on to eat etc. this can be the making of some horses, they just come to terms with it on their own, nothing to do with a person.
 

wispagold

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Thanks for the replies.

I had his teeth checked a few weeks ago, there were some sharp bits but nothing major. He does have wolf teeth but the dentist didn't seem concerned that these were causing the issue.

I wanted to try him in a nathe to start with but I didn't have one and I was worried about how much room it was going to take up in his mouth as i think that is part of the problem.

Regarding his breaking we have taken everything very slowly and spent a long time on the ground with him long lining and lunging. He had gotten a bit better in his mouth when he started hacking out but I have since moved yards (I had moved house and he has been on full livery at my friends yard). He is now on DIY and is still taking time to settle. I now have to ride him on my own with no one on the ground to help which makes things more difficult.
 

Tempi

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Has he had his back/head/neck/poll checked recently?

I would im afraid be going down the drop noseband option, hes 5 not 3 so it wouldnt bother me too much, regardless of whether hes done much or not. You dont have to do it stupidly tight, just enough so that he cant open and get his tongue out.

How do you lunge him? I would suggest loose side reins and 2 lunge lines to get him stretching and forwards into the contact, use the lunge lines like you would the reins, keep a contact on his mouth and encourage him to stretch down into it. I would back off the school work (apart from lunging) and just do lots of hacking to get him forwards.
 

Keenjean

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I had a horse that was similarly fussy in the mouth, put him in a magic bit which is a ported snaffle (they're v.cheap, my local tack shop sells them for £9.99). It gave him enough room for his tongue, didn't rub like the happy mouth straight bar I tried and didn't have the action of a normal snaffle which he clearly didn't like. This helped him accept contact and feel that he could go forward so it was a bit of a gem!! Would recommend trying it altho obviously every horse is different :)
 

lucemoose

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My 5 year old took ages to find her mouth so to speak but she has cracked it on the lunge and for the most part she has it whilst ridden. I put her in a ns type bit with a flash and this week she will go in a hinged sweet iron with the drop as the ns bit is a little too thin for my liking. It's taken ages! But she is a special one haha and for every 2466256 steps she takes back, the next one she takes forward is golden.
 

Aces_High

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Whenever I bit a horse they wear the bridle for pretty much most of the day. This way they can munch on their hay and mooch about and get used to having a bit in their mouth generally. I always lunge the babies in side reins as I think it's an important learning curve for them to have the feel of something touching their mouths. Therefore I would recommend you lunging this horse with side reins on. I also agree that taking him out hacking a lot more will get him thinking forward and he'll hopefully be too busy looking around to mess around with his tongue and you can push him forwards into the bridle. The other good piece of advice as someone else has mentioned is getting him into a big field and he will soon learn what forward means!
 
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