Youngsters and picking out their hooves....

CassTheCob

CassTheCob

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Hi!
So I have a 6 year old gypsy cob, and he isn't the best at picking his feet up, but once you get them up, they're up for a few seconds then they slam down again, which is hard for me, and many other poor people that have been victimised by his huge hooves smacking down in their attempts to just try and pick out a hoof... He was gelded at 5, and was bred and owned by gypsies for 90% of his life before I got him, so he didn't used to get handled very often apart from to get their hooves trimmed every 6 weeks or so. He's pretty good with his back hooves but not so much with the fronts, which is understandable though as 70% of their weight is on their front legs, then obviously 30% on the hinds. Has anyone got any tips to help me single-handedly combat this and help him to gain better balance? I haven't got anyone else to really help me with this, as we are on a private yard and he is kept by himself *waits for people to attack me because he lives alone* (before anyone does attack me, he is kept alone because he prefers it that way. When I first got him he was kept alone, and was happy. But then we started keeping him with other horses, his happiness levels dropped drastically. He is now kept alone and is happier than ever :) ) If anyone has any hints and tips, please let me know as I'd like to get this sorted as soon as possible! Thanks! :D
 
Call your farrier, explain to him the problem and ask him if he will make a longer appointment for you, or even come over specially and firstly, show your cob that he has to pick his feet up and keep them up and secondly show you how to manage it.

Up to you how you keep him if he's happy but I would say that I have never trained my homebred to pick his feet up. He has watched all the others have theirs done every few weeks though and that's also, I believe, how he learned to tie up.
 
Have you tried using a soft rope to loop round and pick up the foot? Also, not wanting to sound like a doom monger or the usual "there is something wrong with him" brigade but my 3 yo developed major issues picking up his hinds. He was found to have DJD in his hocks. So just worth considering any physical problems. Does he have any other behaviour issues?
 
Does he have feathers? Sometimes youngsters take an age to be polite about picking up their feet and keeping them there!

The way I tackle it is to pick up their feet all the time, this could be up to fifteen times a day - either use the feather or press the chestnut to get them to pick up. If they slam down, repeat until they relax. Always try and make sure they are standing square. A firm "no" if they snatch the foot away. Tie up next to some hay, don't loose heart, some horses take ages to get the idea :)
 
I trained my baby horse using a clicker, so she picks up her feet when you point at them - it meant that I didn't interfere with her balance when she was learning about it, and now just support the hoof once it's in the air. Might be worth going back to the beginning with yours, one because he may be worried about balance if someone else picks his leg up and two because it introduces something positive and fun (the reward for the click) and will probably make you both feel better about the training. Once he will pick a foot up on command, you can gradually extend the length of time he has to hold it there - early slam down means no reward, but not a punishment either. Just be careful to be very gradual in asking for more.
 
Start small - ask to pick up for 2 seconds (I taught my youngster how to pick up his hooves by lifting from his feathers (far less scary than asking for his hoof) and make sure you are still holding the hoof when it is put down (no slamming as this will be a negative reinforcement) then lots of over the top praise. I would do each foot twice as his baby brain couldn't handle any more than that. Then gradually extend how long you're asking for and keep praising each time it's correct.
 
soloequestrian said:
I trained my baby horse using a clicker, so she picks up her feet when you point at them - it meant that I didn't interfere with her balance when she was learning about it, and now just support the hoof once it's in the air. Might be worth going back to the beginning with yours, one because he may be worried about balance if someone else picks his leg up and two because it introduces something positive and fun (the reward for the click) and will probably make you both feel better about the training. Once he will pick a foot up on command, you can gradually extend the length of time he has to hold it there - early slam down means no reward, but not a punishment either. Just be careful to be very gradual in asking for more.
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This, we did this with the young Appy after she had decided that she didn't want anyone picking her fronts up, after treatment under sedation, for a foot injury. Our farrier also spent a morning working with her. The combination means that she is now quite polite with her front feet (she used to go up when they were touched!)
 
Agree with farrier training, but make sure the surface is not going to injure horse eg on a soft surface, as in my experience some of them will go down on their knees rather than submit willingly.
 
FinkleyAlex said:
Start small - ask to pick up for 2 seconds (I taught my youngster how to pick up his hooves by lifting from his feathers (far less scary than asking for his hoof) and make sure you are still holding the hoof when it is put down (no slamming as this will be a negative reinforcement) then lots of over the top praise. I would do each foot twice as his baby brain couldn't handle any more than that. Then gradually extend how long you're asking for and keep praising each time it's correct.
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I did this with my youngster. Once you know it isn't fear, stress or lack of balance and is just rudeness, to keep the hoof in the air try lifting the toe higher than the heel, if that makes sense. It should help you keep the foot till you are ready to give it up. Also, probably teaching my grandmother to suck eggs, please make sure you are picking the feet up safely, not crossing your arm across his legs in case the stomping turns to leg waving. It's a quick route to broken arms!
 
Reptition, repetition, repetition and making it a positive experience each time you lift a foreleg is in all likelihood key. However, be aware, that as 60% of the weight is on the forehand, that when you pick up a front leg you force the horse to take more weight behind and IF there is some physical problem behind then this can manifest itself as reluctance to pick up the foreleg.
 
my rising 5yr old cob had very little done with him last year due to personal circumstances, he ended up kicking the farrier, a big no no, since then he has been reminded of his manners regulary, now picking up a foot on request, holding it up for longer each time, sometimes it takes five/ten minutes for him to stop fidgeting and hold his foot up, but he always does it, he just gets frustrated at not being able to move around
 
I got mine as a weanling and he wasn't great at picking up his feet and already knew he was stronger than people. I had no-one to help me and no stable/small enclosed area to train him in. When he snatched a foot, I didn't try to hold on and when his foot was on the ground again I'd immediately pick it up again. I repeated until he realised that I wasn't going to stop until he stopped snatching the foot. As soon as that split second of no resistance occurred I gently set his foot down and gave him a fuss before moving onto next foot.

Within a month I could pick out a 6 month old colts feet with no issue standing loose in the field and we never had a single argument about it.
 
A good trick to keep the leg up through a tantrum is to lift it right up and lock the hoof in next to the elbow. Unless the horse is a giant you should be able to hold it standing up straight with one hand around the fetlock. If the horse hops about go with it.

When the horse stands still and stops trying to pull his leg out of your hand praise him and give a quick pat on the shoulder and then place the foot down. If at any point he tries to slam it down pull it up into the lock position hold till still then place down. Repeat till you can hold and place on the ground without an argument then end with a good scratch or treat.

Repeat other feet. Do all feet every time you see horse. Randomly do one foot while your doing other things eg. Saddle up, pick up near fore, bridle, pick up off fore, lead over to mounting block, pick up off hind etc.
 
fawaz said:
A good trick to keep the leg up through a tantrum is to lift it right up and lock the hoof in next to the elbow. Unless the horse is a giant you should be able to hold it standing up straight with one hand around the fetlock. If the horse hops about go with it.

When the horse stands still and stops trying to pull his leg out of your hand praise him and give a quick pat on the shoulder and then place the foot down. If at any point he tries to slam it down pull it up into the lock position hold till still then place down. Repeat till you can hold and place on the ground without an argument then end with a good scratch or treat.

Repeat other feet. Do all feet every time you see horse. Randomly do one foot while your doing other things eg. Saddle up, pick up near fore, bridle, pick up off fore, lead over to mounting block, pick up off hind etc.
Click to expand...
Do be careful if trying this, my youngster would just go up if you trapped her like that!
 
Use a rope looped, (not tied) around the foot and just keep asking him to pick it up, this will save you getting pulled about so much and you can keep your face out of kicking range. He's probably just never really been taught properly so don't tell him off, just keep asking and let him figure out what you want and how to keep his balance. Also, he won't translate what learns from one hoof to the next, so I'd concentrate on one foot per session till he's confident with that one, then move on to the next.
It's a big deal for horses to give their feet up as they are essentially helpless, so be patient with him :)
 
It might be an idea to have a look at the skin behind his knees. If he's sore (as is common in hairies) then he will be reluctant to flex at the knee, which might account for the problem. Worth ruling it out anyway.
 
Assuming there's nothing sore anywhere Im another clicker training fan. My almost 3 year old arrived last April and I had exactly the same problem, needed a trim two weeks in and me and the farrier had to literally lean him against the wall to sort of complete the job, it wasn't great. In the following few weeks I got a friend to stand at the front and I aimed to lift and put down using click/treat as a reward. At the next visit the farrier couldn't believe the difference and we've never looked back, he holds them up when I ask now!
 
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