Youngsters and picking up feet!

[countrybumpkin85]

Hi, I'm not a "novice novice", I have over 20 years equine experience and a couple of assited backings under my belt, but I've come accross an issue I've not had to deal with before and need some advice.
I have a rather chunky, large youngster, aged 3 who we're having issues getting him to pick up his feet.
I have had this with a much smaller youngster and we got through it, but seeing as this one os 3-4 times his size I physically cannot battle as much.

On his fronts he'll either spin round, kick his leg forwards as you lift it, or lean onto it and pull you down, at which point I'm cringing that he'll go down himself!

With backs he eithr kicks out as you lift (we were warned about this) or again forces it back down.

We've stuck with it and as I was taught previously make sure it goes down on our terms, not his. So we've not faffed about picking them out, just up, quick look and down then moved on to the next. We're trying this most days and trying to get him into a routine so he knows what to expect. Keeping it very calm, lots of talking and encouragememnt. Tryed distracting with food....didn't really work. It takes two generally, one to lift (my husband as I'm not string enough when he kicks out/pulls away to make sure he sets it down without hurting himself.) and then me standing either at his head for backs reassuring him, or by his side ready to try and prevent him spinning and knocking my husband over when he's doing the fronts.

I don't condone any rough methods, we're not in a rush with this horse, he's barefoot obviously and I'm yet to see him with the farrier, but our farrier isn't build like a rugby player bless him, so I'm a bit concerned that I'd like him a bit happier having his feet done before he's trimmed again.

Any tips or methods that have worked well for you?

 

[StormyGale]

Hi cb sounds like your doing everything right taking time etc. I had one like this and as u say main thing is no one gets injured. I used a thick rope to loop around the back foot and gently lift while making a noise or command that you've been using to get him to lift. Even if it's a few inches off the ground then let the foot back down this means if he kicks out u can still keep hold of the rope and not 'release' his foot so u are in control but your far enough out of the way for u not to get injured and just increase the time u have his foot lifted for. Hope that helps

 

[countrybumpkin85]

Thank you, good to know I'm on the right track. I am a bit dubious about using a line incase it tightens too much, I've never done it like that before so wouldn't know how or where I'm attaching it!

Hopfully he'll be able to remain barefoot so there's no rush to be picking them out regularly or throughly, but I do like to be able to get a good look each time I bring the horses in for any problems. Had awful trouble with thrush last summer/winter as it was so wet and warm, and wouldn't know on him at the moment. (Not that he's as risk now its so dry in our fields!)

My worst bit with his feet at the moment is his fronts, where he then leans onto it and nearly falls over. I've tied him loose enough that if he did go down he's not going to be strung up by his head collar, but he'd still damage his knees if he hit the ground. The little one tried exactly the same and I held him up until he stopped prancing about, even held onto his kicking back legs until he gave in.....at 14.2hh, shire x and still growing this isn't an option!!! LOL

 

[Fools Motto]

A soft webbing line won't hurt, and it may give you the upper hand! Keep doing what you are doing, he will get the message soon!
Out of interest, what is he like to brush his legs?

 

[countrybumpkin85]

So far couldn't care less about having his legs brushed. Which is good as I'm dying to let his feathers grow back and shamppo them, brush them, condition them.......you get the idea

 

[StormyGale]

It does have to be attached so to speakjust pass the rope under his fetlock and hold the two ends worst case senario he pulls really hard u release and rope slips from leg no harm done you'll get there it does take time sounds like your doing well anyway

 

[em_123]

A great trick which my farrier gave me which solved pretty much my youngsters foot problem.

If he kicks out at you, have him held on a lunge line, not tied up and as he kicks out at you, send him away and around you, keep him doing this until he shows signs he wants to stop, then send him around you once more, ask him to back up and bring him forwards and he should follow you a bit easier. Then try the foot again, if he kicks out repeat the exercise.

It's not an easily or quickly curable problem, but it can be done in time.

With the fronts hold his foot up and do not give in, he won't hurt himself if he goes down on his knee, he will more than likely come straight back up.

He sounds as though he is testing you and found this is your weak spot, you will never beat him by strength, you have to use other techniques.

The above ground work, it is sending him away in a similar way a herd leader would do if he kicked out at them, same thing with backing him up, then when you walk forward again you are inviting him back in, but on your terms, which will be the point where he either shows he is willing to respect you or not. If you have to tug him along just back him up and send him round a couple more times and try again.

 

[Angus' yard]

A great trick which my farrier gave me which solved pretty much my youngsters foot problem.

If he kicks out at you, have him held on a lunge line, not tied up and as he kicks out at you, send him away and around you, keep him doing this until he shows signs he wants to stop, then send him around you once more, ask him to back up and bring him forwards and he should follow you a bit easier. Then try the foot again, if he kicks out repeat the exercise.

It's not an easily or quickly curable problem, but it can be done in time.

With the fronts hold his foot up and do not give in, he won't hurt himself if he goes down on his knee, he will more than likely come straight back up.

He sounds as though he is testing you and found this is your weak spot, you will never beat him by strength, you have to use other techniques.

The above ground work, it is sending him away in a similar way a herd leader would do if he kicked out at them, same thing with backing him up, then when you walk forward again you are inviting him back in, but on your terms, which will be the point where he either shows he is willing to respect you or not. If you have to tug him along just back him up and send him round a couple more times and try again.

This!

 

[Crazycob06]

My mare can be just like that at times, mainly when she suffers with feather mites bless her! I find if I just pick up, have a quick look and put down every time I am with her that after a few days its nothing. I then start thoroughly picking out and making her hold them up a little longer and I'm about to start tapping away at them when we pick up now as that is the bit she hates the most with the farrier.

Basically I really believe in little and often, very often! Lol!

Hope you get there with him.

 

[mandwhy]

I just used food for my awkward one. I accepted she didn't like it at first (kicking, biting etc) and she's a horse that generally needs persuasion, but I found it impossible to get the timing right by myself. I took one unhorsey OH as food deliverer on other side of a wooden fence with a pocket of pony nuts, and me picking up the feet and giving instructions, she would get a treat for lifting up and another treat if she held it up for a couple of seconds, then put down, gradually extending time and including picking out, tapping on it etc. If she started messing about I would say NO, try to hold on and OH would step back from her as if the withdraw the reward until she quietened down. We worked up to feeding one pony nut about every second if she held it up. We still do this every now and then when my OH is around and when she arrives at the fence she lifts all of her feet in turn as she knows what we are doing (cute!).

I can do it by myself now as she expects the food but accepts that I have to do the foot first and then give it to her!

I do it after she had had her normal food so she is not too ravenous, they can get bargey and not focus otherwise.

 

[Dry Rot]

I just used food for my awkward one. I accepted she didn't like it at first (kicking, biting etc) and she's a horse that generally needs persuasion, but I found it impossible to get the timing right by myself. I took one unhorsey OH as food deliverer on other side of a wooden fence with a pocket of pony nuts, and me picking up the feet and giving instructions, she would get a treat for lifting up and another treat if she held it up for a couple of seconds, then put down, gradually extending time and including picking out, tapping on it etc. If she started messing about I would say NO, try to hold on and OH would step back from her as if the withdraw the reward until she quietened down. We worked up to feeding one pony nut about every second if she held it up. We still do this every now and then when my OH is around and when she arrives at the fence she lifts all of her feet in turn as she knows what we are doing (cute!).

I can do it by myself now as she expects the food but accepts that I have to do the foot first and then give it to her!

I do it after she had had her normal food so she is not too ravenous, they can get bargey and not focus otherwise.

I suppose all horses are different but this method occurred to me and we tried it. Foot up -- reward in mouth. Not desperately successful, to be honest. Maybe our timing was wrong? We trried to synchronise foot lifting with a slice of carrot going in the mouth. Maybe a slight delay for "thinking time" would work better?

I now use a long stick and continually stroke and tap the legs and feet, then use a long walking stick with a crook on the end to lift and manipulate legs. That seems to work as they get bored kicking thin air and never hitting anything of substance, finally giving up.

On a parallel theme, Google "endo tap". Interesting stuff. Tapping does seem to work even better than stroking.

 

[Nudibranch]

My youngster went through a bolshy phase, initially refusing to pick up for the farrier and then tried it on with me as well. It was cured within a week or so with a rope as others have mentioned. Just loop a soft lead rope around the fetlock, you're not tying anything so it can't do any harm. Use the rope to ask for the foot, then to support it while you have a look. You are keeping a hold from a safe distance then, and it really is very easy. Any silly business and I just use the rope to lift and hold again. I was able to keep a good hold of my 16.2, well built 2 year old and "win" each time - he soon gave up the stomping.

 

[orionstar]

I suppose all horses are different but this method occurred to me and we tried it. Foot up -- reward in mouth. Not desperately successful, to be honest. Maybe our timing was wrong? We trried to synchronise foot lifting with a slice of carrot going in the mouth. Maybe a slight delay for "thinking time" would work better?

I now use a long stick and continually stroke and tap the legs and feet, then use a long walking stick with a crook on the end to lift and manipulate legs. That seems to work as they get bored kicking thin air and never hitting anything of substance, finally giving up.

On a parallel theme, Google "endo tap". Interesting stuff. Tapping does seem to work even better than stroking.

This worked for our 3 year old 17hh WBX she would kick out the minute we tried to pick her back legs up, a combination of well timed catches and holds and praise and treats at the other end fixed the problem, and the ability to think if my leg gets broken it's insured!

 

[Dry Rot]

This worked for our 3 year old 17hh WBX she would kick out the minute we tried to pick her back legs up, a combination of well timed catches and holds and praise and treats at the other end fixed the problem, and the ability to think if my leg gets broken it's insured!

My farrier put a rope around one bolshy youngster's neck (a loose non-slip noose), led the rope around a rear heel, then back through the noose. He explained that if she kicked (as she was intent on doing!), she'd just be pulling against herself. She kicked once, found that didn't work, and promptly switched off and went to sleep!

The farrier is coming again on Thursday so it will be interesting if this, and our own training, has worked....