ZARA PHILLIPS

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Over the weekend there was a bit of a debate (post lower down Zara P & Toytown) about whether Zara is infact a world class event rider. I stuck up for Zara and made my point of view quite clear that i think she IS a world class rider and thoroughly deserves to be number 1. To be honest i was REALLY shocked that anyone would think otherwise but some did........ This prompted me to bring this up with quite a few people that i know and about half the people i spoke to were with me but to my disbelief the other half thought that she has not proved herself to be world class. So what i want to know from those who do not think she is 'up there' is:

Zara is the European and world champion, she is therefore ranked number 1 in the world. So what is she missing that in your opinion stops her from being a world class rider? What would she have to do in order for you to consider her as such?

I would just like to point out that i am not being confrontational, i am just asking because i am intruiged (sp)!!

I already know that the main answer will be that she hasn't had enough success on enough horses but i don't buy that this is the only reason. if i had to choose between a long career on loads of horses, always doing quite well or i could have an amazing, world dominating career but it would only last for one horses lifetime, i would definately pick the second (which i'm sure you have gathered refers to Zara!!!(up to now as i believe she will go on to have successes with other horses but ok, she hasn't so far)) rather than the first (everybody else). So there must be more to it than just that??

 

[Nickymac]

I think the point most people will make is, as you said, that she has done really well with Toytown and their partnership is world class. Stephen Hadley made a comment yesterday (I was watching the showjumping from WEG) that good horses make good riders, which is true, and I'm sure that in time Zara will use her talent and experience to produce more good horses. One of her strongest points seems to be her ability to cope with the mental pressure of competition and I think that has been a major part of her success.

 

[k9h]

The fact is that Zara produced Toytown herself. Her Dad saw him at a pony club camp & bought him for £400. (How sick the then owners must feel now, although still proud that they had owned him!?) So its not like a top class horse was bought for her to sit on & steer. Yes I do think that there are other eventers that are better than her but Zara has produced the goods on the day of the competition to become european & world champion. You can't denie her that. I couldn't do it if you sat me on Toytown or any of them horses that were competing there & I can cross the country when horse isn't burying me in ground! Well done to the lass.

 

[Bossanova]

[ QUOTE ]
The fact is that Zara produced Toytown herself. Her Dad saw him at a pony club camp & bought him for £400. (How sick the then owners must feel now, although still proud that they had owned him!?) So its not like a top class horse was bought for her to sit on & steer.

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That point has already been discredited.

I'm not going to air my views again but Zara isnt actually top of the world rankings and she certainly isnt top of the BE rankings, in fact she's nowhere near top!!

 

[0]

This is what i think and i cannot imagine anyone saying that she isn't a truely world class rider - especially when she won against all the best riders on all the best horses - i think she deserves it and deserves a lot of credit - which is why i want to know from those that don't - maybe i am missing something?
Anyway, we've had the debate already and i didn't change my veiw so i don't expect anyone else to so i am gonna shut up and listen now!!!

 

[Happy Horse]

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The fact is that Zara produced Toytown herself. Her Dad saw him at a pony club camp & bought him for £400.

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Where on earth does this story come from? I knew his previous owner and rider and I am certian this is nonsense! If you have proof then please post it but if it is just hearsay I would be very careful about spreading it about.

 

[lisaward]

i did see it posted in a paper not sure which one though sorry.

 

[kayleigh_and_rocky]

this story was also told on horse tales or a similar tv programme.

 

[FMM]

I believe that Meryl Winter did some pre novice and novice with him. So not a £400 horse, but equally not a "made" horse.

 

[monica123]

Date Rider Event Class Pos Pts D SJ SJT XCJ XCT RTA SCJ SCT RTB DRP Total
01/05/1999 Miss Meryl Winter Tweseldown (3) 1 N 2 5 0
10/04/1999 Miss Meryl Winter Tweseldown (2) 1 PN 7 0 0
01/04/1999 Miss Meryl Winter Mattingley 1 PN 2 0 0


these are the results before Zara had the ride so deffo not £400 horse

 

[seabiscuit]

You have all your facts wrong guys.
Plus
LEARN WHAT MAKES A GOOD RIDER IT IS NOT ALL DOWN TO RESULTS!!

 

[Ferdinase514]

She did well. Whether she could do as well with other horses is debatable. I recall the same was said of Pippa at one point.

 

[Santa_Claus]

You have answered your question in your own post in my opinion.

My definition of a 'World Class Rider' is one who can get on any horse and produce the best results they are capable of. This is best illustrated by the format of the SJ individual final, It takes a truely class rider to get on a strange horse with a very short warm up and then jump a 1m60 course and go clear on 4 horses.

Now although Zara has some exceptional results and a clearly brilliant relationship when the pressure is on with Toytown she is yet to reach the level as a rider to allow her to produce consistently good results from her horses. Even Toytown's results go up and down, you just need to look at some of the cricket scores he runs up showjumping. It is obvious that a lot of extra work goes into his SJing up to the major champs and that as a pair they jump best under that top level of pressure. But his results look no where near as clean cut impressive if you look at them all rather than just the big wins. Not saying they are bad but they not consistently brilliant as some people seem to say they are.

I look at other riders who granted may 'get rid' of the problem horses but produce consistently top results. You only need look at Oli T's 2005 record to see about 80-90% of all runs are top 10 places including withdrawals etc, now not saying he is the most stunning rider but you can't argue he is effective.

So yes lots of rambling later my reasoning for her not being a world class rider is that currently she seems to lack that little bit extra that allows her to easily bring out the best from a new/strange or just any/all horse(s)

Katie

 

[landf]

But equally you could hardly call him "ready Made". I really don't see why some people seem to be getting het up over it. What does it matter how good or bad a rider she is - she pulls it off when the pressure's on. Why can't people just live and let live??

 

[kateD]

At the end of the day there is always going to be a section of our sport dominated by people who have more money than talent, and can afford to buy 'made horses', you only have to look at the pony, and junior teams this year ( with the odd exception) and most of the riders are on experienced horses/ponies which have prob cost a far bit. But I don't think you can really rate a rider unless they have produced or brought on a young horse themselves, not just got the ride after someones done the hard work.
It is obvious that Zara is an exception as she has talent as well as the money. She has proved this already. But to a top rider ( together her and Toytown are a top class COMBINATION) you have got to have consident results on a number of horses. If something went wrong with Toytown, Zara has nothing to back him up with.

 

[kayleigh_and_rocky]

Hm think you may be speaking sense then, zara and toytown are a top class and world best combination, and she has done super things with that horse. Yes so have others with their horses but at the end of the day, zara has won europeans followed by worlds within the space of a year, so how anyone can attempt to criticise her or say shes not a world class rider is completely bizarre. shes proved herself several times now and brilliantly (do i need to remind everyone of her super riding in the europeans) i think people need to stop being jealous, petty or whatever and just recognise that shes done good! We should be proud of her.

 

[FMM]

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You have all your facts wrong guys.
Plus
LEARN WHAT MAKES A GOOD RIDER IT IS NOT ALL DOWN TO RESULTS!!

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SB - your post comes below mine and another one listing the horse's previous results, and I am afraid that these ARE fact!

 

[vicijp]

(not replying to anyone in particular)
I dont think you can really slate anyone for moving on horses that arent good enough. Bad horses(im not saying they are useless, simply horses which arent up to the standard you are expecting) do not make anyone in any sport. It goes especially for racing, and im guessing it applies across the divides as well.
A trainer isnt going to get anywhere with a yard full of crap. It is a waste of time, money and effort. Top trainers, say for instance Sir M Stoute, did not get to the top winning sellers round gaff tracks a few times a week. These were passed on for other trainers to have success with at a lower level. He then went out, found, and kept the good horses that could take him to the top level.
This applies in any discipline. It doesnt mean the people that win the lowly events are any less of a horseman, people have different goals and levels of expectation. You need to be very driven to acheive at top levels, plus lots of money.

 

[MissDeMeena]

I think the main point is.. what could someone else achieve (sp?) given the backup she has had.... OR, would she still have made it to the WEG had she not had half of that backup/money!!

Yes she still won, and there's a big difference between winning, and just taking part!! so no ones calling her useless!!
BUT she has had every opp. to get to the top, which most other people will never get!

Plus, yes Toytown wasn't a 'top' horse before she got him.. but making a horse up to novice level is half the donkey work done!

 

[Rambo]

One thing that everybody in horse sports needs to remember is that it is a very money oriented sport. There will always be people who have more money, and more backup than others. That's a fact, and if you don't like it, you should get out of the sport

On to the question in hand...Is Zara a world class rider ?

Well, clearly she is. Just to be selected to compete at the Europeans or WEG means she IS a world class rider. So she has had all her success so far on one horse. Everyone has to have a first good horse. How do we know what she will do in the future

She won the European title against the odds. In isolation this could be considered a fluke. After all, any championship is just a single competition on the day (or 3 days in this case lol!). To win WEG as well makes the odds of it being a fluke considerably slighter.

In recent months we have had some great high-profile stuff going on in the horse world. Finally equestrianism is getting some good publicity again. Why oh why do people feel the need to try and pull it down again

Love her or loathe her, Zara is a very high-profile individual who is also doing very well. She is the best ambassador our sport has had in a very long time.....so get off her back and get out there instead, and do something great yourselves...and you don't need to win WEG to do that

 

[flyingfeet]

I don't think anyone even given the best horse in the world could decide to become an eventer overnight.

Zara's trained for this all the way through pony club and the only reason people are questioning her result is because of her family.

 

[Beanyowner]

I think Zara is a very good rider...and after hearing Yogi talk about her he obviously beleives in her riding ability as well which if its good enough for someone like him then its good enough for me!

She has had every oppurtunity to do well and she has done...she has set up a yard and is continueing to do well and as far as I know she does have some younger horses at home coming up through the ranks (don't quote me on that though!!).

I wish her the best of luck with her career and can only see her as a massive asset to the british team...especially at only 24!

Claire x

 

[cheeky girl]

[ QUOTE ]
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The fact is that Zara produced Toytown herself. Her Dad saw him at a pony club camp & bought him for £400.

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Where on earth does this story come from? I knew his previous owner and rider and I am certian this is nonsense! If you have proof then please post it but if it is just hearsay I would be very careful about spreading it about.

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Hah it was in the daily mail and made me chuckle as I didn't for one minute think it was true.

 

[little_pink_piggies]

but the same was being said about pippa when she was zaras age with sir barnaby, granted she was never world champion with him but at 25 she was being slated and now look at her. Zara still has a long way to go but surely she is showing that the talent and her nerve is 100% there????

 

[yorks]

Would this discussion be taking place if the rider wasn't Zara or if it was a foreigner in the same situation?
Would we not just say 'well done'?

 

[Rambo]

[ QUOTE ]
but the same was being said about pippa when she was zaras age with sir barnaby, granted she was never world champion with him but at 25 she was being slated and now look at her. Zara still has a long way to go but surely she is showing that the talent and her nerve is 100% there????

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Agreed....and Barnaby was far from the ready-made article as well....

Mind you, Pippa is still getting slated by many on here

 

[kayleigh_and_rocky]

Here here!! And at the end of the day shes having the same backing as every top class rider people get with it!! she has sponsors just like everyone else she has access to the same trainers pippa, oli etc hav access too. What is wrong with people that we have to doubt a clearly strong rider whos earning britain a good status in eventing? I really think it is just sad that people cannot be proud of her. she works damn hard and has got where shes got thruogh determination. yes shes lucky but common, so are other riders and they havnt achieved what she has. seriously people jealousy and bitterness isnt a good thing, just be proud of the girl instead of slating her, she did bludy good.

 

[Santa_Claus]

But i think what is being missed is that some (but granted not all) are appluading her acheivement but saying that there are far better riders out their and a lot of her acheivement is down to the phenomenal individual relationship she has with toytown and not with her other horses.

Also without going into the whole Pippa thing which has been said many times my opinions on her are somewhat different to some others and I can say that there are tens of other riders I would choose before her to send a horse to even though her dressage phase is fantastic.

 

[Nickymac]

Don't they call it "Tall Poppy Syndrome", where someone is built up and built up and then when they reach the top people can't wait to cut them down. I'm sure the UK is one of the worst countries for this. Unfortunately, if you're lucky/hard-working/rich enough to get to the top (that was tongue in cheek btw, before anyone jumps down my throat....) there is only one way you can go from there and that is down. Look at Pippa's successes over the last couple of years and then nothing seems to have gone right for her this year, that must be tough to take when people have such high expectations of you. As in any sport you have to take the highs with the lows and I'm sure Zara won't be one to give up when things get tough, as they undoubtedly will.

(As an aside, if you read some of the stuff on here is it any wonder that "normal" people think all "horsey" people are bitchy! ?)

 

[MissDeMeena]

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Love her or loathe her, Zara is a very high-profile individual who is also doing very well. She is the best ambassador our sport has had in a very long time.....

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That IS something i do 100% agree with