eventrider23
Well-Known Member
Ok I see Zubin R is listed as having been presented to the KWN keuring at Wellington and there are some lovely photos of him on the greenlees site, but does anyone know how it went and whether he passed or not??
Zubin R - KWPN grading
- Thread starter eventrider23
- Start date
Ciss
Well-Known Member
Was not for actual stallion grading but for a conformation and sport assessment as a start to his stallion grading process. He got ster pred for conformation with marks of 75 for canter (which SHBGB said was his worst pace <ROFL>
and a comment that he was just the sort that they were looking for. Once he has acheived 3 double clears at 1.30 (will be no problem to him as he is already doing double claers 1.10/1.20 as a 4 year old) he will be given his Sport Spring award as well.
A total vindication for the Futurity and all those evaluators whose judgement was queried but a bit of a credbility problem for SHBGB now I think <sigh>
and a comment that he was just the sort that they were looking for. Once he has acheived 3 double clears at 1.30 (will be no problem to him as he is already doing double claers 1.10/1.20 as a 4 year old) he will be given his Sport Spring award as well.A total vindication for the Futurity and all those evaluators whose judgement was queried but a bit of a credbility problem for SHBGB now I think <sigh>
eventrider23
Well-Known Member
Fantastic result!!! So pleased for them as I thought the SHBGB result was a complete farce! No one can say the KWPN has a poor judging and grading criteria!!!!
affjumper
Member
Well done, many congratulations to all involved, this is a great result !!!, i bet the owner is well pleased. I do hope we are all kept up to date with his sucess in Germay. I wonder what SHGB think about all this ?, i would be asking for my money back if i was the owner !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Springs
Well-Known Member
I believe that the AES is in some respects are as bad if not worse. This is a big problem.
The BEF are doing the right thing in there grading and I believe are run to the highest standards. The aim is quite clear more horses more medals and so the horses are graded to the potential that they may reach.
The likes of SHB (GB) the AES seam only intrested in protecting and promoting there own intrests and not thoes of the sport/breed in general. If this is untrue could someone let me know.
Also why does the BSJA charge so munch for registering a stallion? and the only way to get around this higher charge is to have your horse graded. can some one explainge the reasoning behind this one as well.
Sorry for the questions and the rant but I am not impressed.
App for the spelling but we all have one disability.
The BEF are doing the right thing in there grading and I believe are run to the highest standards. The aim is quite clear more horses more medals and so the horses are graded to the potential that they may reach.
The likes of SHB (GB) the AES seam only intrested in protecting and promoting there own intrests and not thoes of the sport/breed in general. If this is untrue could someone let me know.
Also why does the BSJA charge so munch for registering a stallion? and the only way to get around this higher charge is to have your horse graded. can some one explainge the reasoning behind this one as well.
Sorry for the questions and the rant but I am not impressed.
App for the spelling but we all have one disability.
Ciss
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I believe that the AES is in some respects are as bad if not worse. This is a big problem.
[/ QUOTE ]
As with SHBGB it is lack of transparency and consistency at the grading that is the real problem with them. However, I do have to say that the young showjumping horse championships that they run as Zangersheide qualifiers with the BSJA do assess the horses across the board, both UK bred and imporeted -- and by public results over quite testing courses -- pretty equally and their incentives for successful Britrish breeders at these championships are also a good step in the right direction.
[ QUOTE ]
The BEF are doing the right thing in there grading and I believe are run to the highest standards. The aim is quite clear more horses more medals and so the horses are graded to the potential that they may reach.
[/ QUOTE ]
Technically it is not a grading, but an assessment as success in the series does not give any stallion or mare breeding rights to any studbook. It is the inconsistency and (possible bias?) that the studbooks show when grading oustanding young horses such as Zubin R that have done well in the Futuirty and then failing them probably for a minor conformation 'fault' that is not acceptable in the showring but has little or nothing to do with performance -- and often by a panel with very little international grading credibility/ training -- that is the real root of the problem and one that the stud books do need to resolve.
[ QUOTE ]
The likes of SHB (GB) the AES seam only intrested in protecting and promoting there own intrests and not thoes of the sport/breed in general. If this is untrue could someone let me know.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think the real problem is their unwillingness to learn and keep up to date with modern sports horse breeding thinking in any discipline. Neither od these organisations ever send any representatives to the WBFSH General Assembly hwere workshops and seminars are regularly held on young horse/youngstock assessment for various disciplines whereas there are now always a group of BEF evaluators there as part of their professional development (mixing with the likes of Thomas Nissen, Johann Knapp, Ludwig Christmann etc on a regualr basis), so that is probably where the real differenence lies.
[ QUOTE ]
Also why does the BSJA charge so munch for registering a stallion? and the only way to get around this higher charge is to have your horse graded. can some one explainge the reasoning behind this one as well.
[/ QUOTE ]
The very high fees are for ungraded stallions and are to activley disuade owners of such stallions from competing them, as many such stallions are actually quite unsafe in the collecting ring/around other horses and at least if a stallion has been graded at a studbook event where an approved BSJA judge is on the panel then they at least know that the stallion has been out in company, jumped to an acceptable height and not misbehaved whilst doing it. They feel that stalliosn that cannot do this should be penalised for it, but the problem with linking it exclusively to gradings that might fail the stallions for other (irrelevant or incorrect) reasons is a major problem. That is why some stallions present themselves at such gradings as being for BSJA approval only but not many stallions are successful taking this route for probably the same reasons as mentioned above.
[ QUOTE ]
Sorry for the questions and the rant but I am not impressed.
[/ QUOTE ]
No problem, ask away and hope the answers help a bit.
[ QUOTE ]
App for the spelling but we all have one disability.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well I'm still typing with the wrong (left ) hand and yuou have no idea how many spelling mistakes that generates!
I believe that the AES is in some respects are as bad if not worse. This is a big problem.
[/ QUOTE ]
As with SHBGB it is lack of transparency and consistency at the grading that is the real problem with them. However, I do have to say that the young showjumping horse championships that they run as Zangersheide qualifiers with the BSJA do assess the horses across the board, both UK bred and imporeted -- and by public results over quite testing courses -- pretty equally and their incentives for successful Britrish breeders at these championships are also a good step in the right direction.
[ QUOTE ]
The BEF are doing the right thing in there grading and I believe are run to the highest standards. The aim is quite clear more horses more medals and so the horses are graded to the potential that they may reach.
[/ QUOTE ]
Technically it is not a grading, but an assessment as success in the series does not give any stallion or mare breeding rights to any studbook. It is the inconsistency and (possible bias?) that the studbooks show when grading oustanding young horses such as Zubin R that have done well in the Futuirty and then failing them probably for a minor conformation 'fault' that is not acceptable in the showring but has little or nothing to do with performance -- and often by a panel with very little international grading credibility/ training -- that is the real root of the problem and one that the stud books do need to resolve.
[ QUOTE ]
The likes of SHB (GB) the AES seam only intrested in protecting and promoting there own intrests and not thoes of the sport/breed in general. If this is untrue could someone let me know.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think the real problem is their unwillingness to learn and keep up to date with modern sports horse breeding thinking in any discipline. Neither od these organisations ever send any representatives to the WBFSH General Assembly hwere workshops and seminars are regularly held on young horse/youngstock assessment for various disciplines whereas there are now always a group of BEF evaluators there as part of their professional development (mixing with the likes of Thomas Nissen, Johann Knapp, Ludwig Christmann etc on a regualr basis), so that is probably where the real differenence lies.
[ QUOTE ]
Also why does the BSJA charge so munch for registering a stallion? and the only way to get around this higher charge is to have your horse graded. can some one explainge the reasoning behind this one as well.
[/ QUOTE ]
The very high fees are for ungraded stallions and are to activley disuade owners of such stallions from competing them, as many such stallions are actually quite unsafe in the collecting ring/around other horses and at least if a stallion has been graded at a studbook event where an approved BSJA judge is on the panel then they at least know that the stallion has been out in company, jumped to an acceptable height and not misbehaved whilst doing it. They feel that stalliosn that cannot do this should be penalised for it, but the problem with linking it exclusively to gradings that might fail the stallions for other (irrelevant or incorrect) reasons is a major problem. That is why some stallions present themselves at such gradings as being for BSJA approval only but not many stallions are successful taking this route for probably the same reasons as mentioned above.
[ QUOTE ]
Sorry for the questions and the rant but I am not impressed.
[/ QUOTE ]
No problem, ask away and hope the answers help a bit.
[ QUOTE ]
App for the spelling but we all have one disability.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well I'm still typing with the wrong (left ) hand and yuou have no idea how many spelling mistakes that generates!
Wisnette
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
He got ster pred for conformation with marks of 75 for canter (which SHBGB said was his worst pace <ROFL> and a comment that he was just the sort that they were looking for. Once he has acheived 3 double clears at 1.30 (will be no problem to him as he is already doing double claers 1.10/1.20 as a 4 year old) he will be given his Sport Spring award as well.
A total vindication for the Futurity and all those evaluators whose judgement was queried but a bit of a credbility problem for SHBGB now I think <sigh>
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't want to rain on anyone's parade but your info's not quite right Ciss - unfortunately he missed out on the ster predicate by 5 marks.
The results of the KWPN UK keuringen are here .
It shows he got an overall conformation mark of 70/100 (which is enough for the ster predicate) and an overall jumping mark of 70/100 (which is NOT enough - he needed an overall jumping of 75 or higher for the ster predicate). Pity.
BUT if he gets a sufficient competition record for the Sport predicate, only his conformation mark counts towards the ster predicate so he will be able to get it that way. All is not lost!
He got ster pred for conformation with marks of 75 for canter (which SHBGB said was his worst pace <ROFL>
and a comment that he was just the sort that they were looking for. Once he has acheived 3 double clears at 1.30 (will be no problem to him as he is already doing double claers 1.10/1.20 as a 4 year old) he will be given his Sport Spring award as well.A total vindication for the Futurity and all those evaluators whose judgement was queried but a bit of a credbility problem for SHBGB now I think <sigh>
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't want to rain on anyone's parade but your info's not quite right Ciss - unfortunately he missed out on the ster predicate by 5 marks.
The results of the KWPN UK keuringen are here .
It shows he got an overall conformation mark of 70/100 (which is enough for the ster predicate) and an overall jumping mark of 70/100 (which is NOT enough - he needed an overall jumping of 75 or higher for the ster predicate). Pity.
BUT if he gets a sufficient competition record for the Sport predicate, only his conformation mark counts towards the ster predicate so he will be able to get it that way. All is not lost!
sporting
New User
I would just like to comment on the above Information. Zubin-R gained 70% for conformation so passed the conformation assessment, and missed out by 5 points on his jumping, but as explained to us all on the PA SYSTEM, when they normally do jumping assessments for stallions there are NO distractions, IE mares+ foals around or a mirror at the end of the jumping lane which does not encourage any horse to "drop" his neck. the proof look at the pictures taken on the day (greenhills). Due to this they also explained that when this horse jumps 1.30m 3 times "clear" he will automatically gain his "Jumping predicate" and does not need to be re-presented, the comments that Ciss made regards the KWPN comments are correct, Hope this clear's up everything
IF you ring up the KWPN they will confirm this.
IF you ring up the KWPN they will confirm this.
cruiseline
Well-Known Member
My mare gained her 'jumping predicate' after jumping 3 x 1.30 clears. She did not show her jump very well at the grading, due to all of the things you have mentioned. She was holding herself over the jump due to a rather scary piece of blue tarpaulin placed at the end of the jumping lane to stop the horses jumping into the stands!!!!!!
Wisnette
Well-Known Member
Sporting, I'd read Ciss's post as saying he had got the ster predicate when in fact he missed out on it on the day but I do accept he will be able to get it in the future through his competition record. Quite a lot of horses get the ster predicate this way and I think its a good method - after all if the horse has a good jumping/dressage competition record, enough for the Sport predicate, it proves beyond doubt its ability in that discipline.
The competition record is a far more accurate measure of ability rather than how the horse performs just during the keuring (with all the possible things that can go wrong) - its a bit like the coursework versus one off exam issue in schools.
The competition record is a far more accurate measure of ability rather than how the horse performs just during the keuring (with all the possible things that can go wrong) - its a bit like the coursework versus one off exam issue in schools.