‘ People don’t listen to their horses’

blitznbobs

blitznbobs

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I keep hearing this but threads on here over and over again suggest very much the opposite… sometimes they don’t know exactly what they are saying but they are listening

Are HHO representative of all horse owners or are we weird in some way?

Ps I am definitely weird
 
I think overall people would like to listen to their horses. After all these days you don't really take up an expensive time consuming hobby like horse riding unless you have at least some liking for horses - otherwise people would take up golf or motor sports or crochet. Sometimes we don't know how to listen, sometimes there are conflicts of interest between what the horse is saying and what we would want, can afford, how we see the world...

I think many of the posts on here asking for advice or if other people that have the same issues with their horse may present a bit of a bias. You wouldn't normally post those kinds of posts unless you thought something was amiss. If you hadn't heard your horse, then as far as you're concerned, everything is fine and there's no need to write a post. I do still occasionally see a post along the lines of "my horse is taking the mickey" or "my horse is deliberately disobeying me", though there are fewer of them.

I think it's lovely to hear from all the people listening to their horses (though sad if that means the horse has an issue). The more we talk about it, the more we can normalise listening to the horse. Even if blissful ignorance would be nicer for our wallets and stress levels, better knowledge is good for our horses.
 
Oh interesting question.

I think the HHO community is a mixed bag of people. Some have been around horses all our lives, some new the horse world and we all bring different approaches to the table/discussion.

I think it is fair to say the most active posters are people coming to ask questions and learn from other peoples experiences. So I think the answer to your question is - no HHO is not a true representation of the all horse owners.

I think people that 'don't listen to their horses' are people that don't know what they don't know - if that makes sense. So wouldn't come to a forum like this to ask questions.

ETA - I think there are a lot of people who approach horses the same way they approach other parts of there life and that is with a very blinkered view.
 
I dont think hho is representative of horse owners generally. I think this is quite a niche area with a huge amount of knowledge, experience and understanding of horses. So I think it's a bit of an echo chamber. People who come with a "naughty horse" issue either stay around and usually (possibly always but you never know) find that there is in fact an actual issue mostly pain/discomfort in origin, or they get told again and again there is likely an issue, remain adamant it's behavioral and leave
 
Titchy Pony said:
I do still occasionally see a post along the lines of "my horse is taking the mickey" or "my horse is deliberately disobeying me", though there are fewer of them.
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I wish I didn't still hear this so often in real life.

There is a BHS organised event on locally soon near me "Maximising the Horse Human Bond" that is being run by the instructor/ behaviourist I use. I am considering going to support her but I suspect it might be "please don't assume your horse is just being a dick when they start bucking or refusing fences" as that does genuinely seem to still be something people need to learn.
 
smolmaus said:
I wish I didn't still hear this so often in real life.

There is a BHS organised event on locally soon near me "Maximising the Horse Human Bond" that is being run by the instructor/ behaviourist I use. I am considering going to support her but I suspect it might be "please don't assume your horse is just being a dick when they start bucking or refusing fences" as that does genuinely seem to still be something people need to learn.
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That will probably be a feature of the event, but hopefully there will be some good examples of what to do to maximise the horse human bond as well as what NOT to do. After all, all good trainers know the importance of offering replacement behaviours (and incentives for them!) to undesirable behaviours.
 
Titchy Pony said:
That will probably be a feature of the event, but hopefully there will be some good examples of what to do to maximise the horse human bond as well as what NOT to do. After all, all good trainers know the importance of offering replacement behaviours (and incentives for them!) to undesirable behaviours.
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Oh definitely, I know the information is going to be first class, I have gotten so much out of my work with her. And I was already starting from a place of using R+, very interested in equine communication and wanting to learn how to listen etc so if you don't have even that imperfect foundation already it could be a really transformative day.

Similar to the forum, I have a little circle of like minded people already and don't really gravitate towards the more... old fashioned types, shall we say, or I don't typically make friendships with them anyway. So will be interesting to at least see who shows up from outside my carefully curated little echo chamber 😂
 
I was with someone at the weekend whose horse has had extensive treatment for several issues so she insists he's fine now but his behaviour suggests otherwise. The "he's had everything checked and there's nothing wrong now" argument came out several times but everyone else can see there's something going on. A horse that used to jump very nicely suddenly stopping at or ploughing through EVERY fence is trying to tell you that you just haven't found the real problem yet. So yes, I think the majority of people on here are listening to their horses, are ready to be educated and to learn from others' experiences but it's not necessarily indicative of wider horse ownership.
 
Annagain said:
I was with someone at the weekend whose horse has had extensive treatment for several issues so she insists he's fine now but his behaviour suggests otherwise. The "he's had everything checked and there's nothing wrong now" argument came out several times but everyone else can see there's something going on. A horse that used to jump very nicely suddenly stopping at or ploughing through EVERY fence is trying to tell you that you just haven't found the real problem yet. So yes, I think the majority of people on here are listening to their horses, are ready to be educated and to learn from others' experiences but it's not necessarily indicative of wider horse ownership.
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Ummm anyone with fibromyalgia, cfs will tell you that normal tests don’t mean no pain
 
blitznbobs said:
Ummm anyone with fibromyalgia, cfs will tell you that normal tests don’t mean no pain
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And unfortunately I was told by every professional I had look at Ben that nothing was wrong and it was behavioural until my physio finally found 'something'. We had already decided to stop pressuring him at that point. If I'd listened to 'more knowledgeable people' and not my horse at that point the likely outcome would have been that someone got hurt and Ben labelled dangerous.
 
I was speaking to someone at work and they asked how I was getting on with T.
I said ok and that I was getting my physio out to check her over. Her reply was
“That physio is good but she will tell you not to ride”….

Well yes. I don’t want to ride a lame horse so that’s exactly what I’d want to hear 🤷🏼‍♀️

Same women had also tried to make a fool of people who won’t tow a horse in dangerous conditions just to ride, “not like back in the good old days when people always rode regardless.”

I’m still shocked as to how unwilling some folk are to listen to their horse
 
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To be able to listen you need some baseline knowledge. You also need an inquisitive mind to keep learning and naturally this is a forum with older people who are interested in horses and asking questions.
I have learnt tonnes on here over the years, it's changed many of the things I do through being introduced to new ideas and thoughts.
 
dorsetladette said:
Oh interesting question.

I think the HHO community is a mixed bag of people. Some have been around horses all our lives, some new the horse world and we all bring different approaches to the table/discussion.

I think it is fair to say the most active posters are people coming to ask questions and learn from other peoples experiences. So I think the answer to your question is - no HHO is not a true representation of the all horse owners.

I think people that 'don't listen to their horses' are people that don't know what they don't know - if that makes sense. So wouldn't come to a forum like this to ask questions.

ETA - I think there are a lot of people who approach horses the same way they approach other parts of there life and that is with a very blinkered view.
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I suspect the sort of people who are in this forum, although different in many ways (temperament, ability, talent, braveness, looks - ha ha) are those who like to read. Not all people like to read - shocking but true.

I'd still be on Cyberhorse if it hadn't died due to FB. Grrr 🏹 [murders FB]
 
Roxylola said:
I dont think hho is representative of horse owners generally. I think this is quite a niche area with a huge amount of knowledge, experience and understanding of horses. So I think it's a bit of an echo chamber. People who come with a "naughty horse" issue either stay around and usually (possibly always but you never know) find that there is in fact an actual issue mostly pain/discomfort in origin, or they get told again and again there is likely an issue, remain adamant it's behavioral and leave
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Yes, it might be a bit of an echo chamber to certain people, but to most of us here, it's not (I think anyway). I love to read stuff from very cluey people - people who have experienced heaps of stuff over decades (sometimes several decades). Some have a ton of knowledge and a good eye for lameness for example (I'm quite hopeless at spotting lameness unless the horse is using crutches); others have a vast knowledge of young horses and their antics; others know heavy horses and how they are. There's loads of other stuff of course but I'm just giving a few examples that come easily to what's left of my mind.
 
LEC said:
To be able to listen you need some baseline knowledge. You also need an inquisitive mind to keep learning and naturally this is a forum with older people who are interested in horses and asking questions.
I have learnt tonnes on here over the years, it's changed many of the things I do through being introduced to new ideas and thoughts.
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Ditto.

I'm actually now ashamed of some of the stuff I did and believed in the past.
.
 
equinerebel said:
Unfortunately, the vast majority of horse owners I know in real life are still of the belief that horses plot ways to “take the p*ss” out of their owners and are being “naughty” and “testing boundaries” when they display obvious pain signals.
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This annoys the hell out of me. I see it happen a lot. Instead of going back to basics and find out the actual source of the problem.
They will beat through it etc 😡

I saw this kind of behaviour at the riding school I was brought up with. Absolutely shocking and seeing those ponies treated like that, Even at 10 I knew that was completely wrong and vowed I would never ever treat an animal like that
 
Roxylola said:
I dont think hho is representative of horse owners generally. I think this is quite a niche area with a huge amount of knowledge, experience and understanding of horses. So I think it's a bit of an echo chamber. People who come with a "naughty horse" issue either stay around and usually (possibly always but you never know) find that there is in fact an actual issue mostly pain/discomfort in origin, or they get told again and again there is likely an issue, remain adamant it's behavioral and leave
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I agree with this, I think this forum is above average in its understanding of horse behaviours.
.
 
Case in point - saddler out to see youngster - fourth time since having him in aug - rode the day after - horse not happy, horse turned away from the saddle when I put it on stable door - rode him - short hack - and horse not happy. Rebook saddler for asap - 2 weeks away. Everyone told me I was nuts - stopped riding did ground work.
Saddler arrived found an issue
Ok my boy is princess and the pea - but if I hadn’t listened I could have had all sorts of issues.
 
ycbm said:
I agree with this, I think this forum is above average in its understanding of horse behaviours.
.
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Ah this is a shame. I’ve been using the forum as a barometer of how people are (in my opinion) getting better at listening to their horse, looking at alternative training methods and calling out bad riding at professional comps.
If we think the forum is above average then it means the general riding population isn’t as improved as I thought it was.
Still, we are heading in the right direction.
 
little_critter said:
Ah this is a shame. I’ve been using the forum as a barometer of how people are (in my opinion) getting better at listening to their horse, looking at alternative training methods and calling out bad riding at professional comps.
If we think the forum is above average then it means the general riding population isn’t as improved as I thought it was.
Still, we are heading in the right direction.
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I dunno - xc lessons for example have changed without a doubt in last few years. Bullying/punishing is pretty much out now and instead it's educating and taking it slowly. Much more acceptance of in hand starting xc for a young horse for instance.
It's still incredibly tricky for trainers if someone unsuitable is going along to group xc lessons but I think they are much better at handling it now and telling them they should be having private xc lessons.
 
The other day I had a lecture from an ex-friend up country who wasted no time in telling me that I was ruining Rabbit by starting him bitless, how I'm letting him get away with things and how I need to give him a wallop to teach him who is boss and how is he is to respect and never question my authority. I promptly said that she may think that, but what I'm doing is letting my young horse tell me what he is and isn't comfortable with.

For context - the whole "letting him get away with things" was her immediate response to when I mentioned that Rabbit was spooking at something on the farm and my method of handling it.

The way I chose to handle the situation was that we approached it on foot, I watched his body for signs of anxiety and stress, made sure he was completely relaxed in what I was asking before getting him to proceed to the next step. When he felt ready to take a step forwards, we got a bit closer to the scary item and I gave him lots of praise - rinse and repeat until we ended up actually grazing next to the scary item with no problems! Baggs my 20 year old had a complete meltdown however and had to be led past by the 2 year old 🤣

I fail to see how walloping and getting shirty with Rabbit in the above situation would have helped, but my ex-friend simply replied that I was a softy and how I need to start saving for someone to come and sort Rabbit out when I inevitably ruin him. I asked how would I be ruining him if I'm simply giving him the chance to say when he feels comfortable to go to the next step - her reply was that we pay enough for the hobby so when we tell our horses to do something, they should do it without question or get a wallop from the whip :(

It breaks my heart that it is still the norm in most circles that any time a horse is confused or needs a bit of extra time to understand, the general consensus is to wallop the poor creature....
 
AppyLover1996 said:
The other day I had a lecture from an ex-friend up country who wasted no time in telling me that I was ruining Rabbit by starting him bitless, how I'm letting him get away with things and how I need to give him a wallop to teach him who is boss and how is he is to respect and never question my authority. I promptly said that she may think that, but what I'm doing is letting my young horse tell me what he is and isn't comfortable with.

For context - the whole "letting him get away with things" was her immediate response to when I mentioned that Rabbit was spooking at something on the farm and my method of handling it.

The way I chose to handle the situation was that we approached it on foot, I watched his body for signs of anxiety and stress, made sure he was completely relaxed in what I was asking before getting him to proceed to the next step. When he felt ready to take a step forwards, we got a bit closer to the scary item and I gave him lots of praise - rinse and repeat until we ended up actually grazing next to the scary item with no problems! Baggs my 20 year old had a complete meltdown however and had to be led past by the 2 year old 🤣

I fail to see how walloping and getting shirty with Rabbit in the above situation would have helped, but my ex-friend simply replied that I was a softy and how I need to start saving for someone to come and sort Rabbit out when I inevitably ruin him. I asked how would I be ruining him if I'm simply giving him the chance to say when he feels comfortable to go to the next step - her reply was that we pay enough for the hobby so when we tell our horses to do something, they should do it without question or get a wallop from the whip :(

It breaks my heart that it is still the norm in most circles that any time a horse is confused or needs a bit of extra time to understand, the general consensus is to wallop the poor creature....
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You know who I think could use a wallop in this situation...

Joking, but a nice bit of negative punishment by blocking her and never speaking to her again is more ethical.
 
smolmaus said:
You know who I think could use a wallop in this situation...

Joking, but a nice bit of negative punishment by blocking her and never speaking to her again is more ethical.
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Oh I hit that block and unfriend button quicker than you could say shazam - I don't want to have any association with people who train and think like that.....
 
LEC said:
I dunno - xc lessons for example have changed without a doubt in last few years. Bullying/punishing is pretty much out now and instead it's educating and taking it slowly. Much more acceptance of in hand starting xc for a young horse for instance.
It's still incredibly tricky for trainers if someone unsuitable is going along to group xc lessons but I think they are much better at handling it now and telling them they should be having private xc lessons.
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That’s good. I very rarely leave the ground now so don’t experience these sorts of clinics.
 
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