“Ask more of your horse”

[Olivia&Archie]

Hello!

My trainer recently said during a session “we now need to start asking more of him” with regards to training my gelding. As this was mid session and I was concentrating, I didn’t get a chance to clarify what he really meant.

Any ideas?!

 

[Pinkvboots]

I would take that as aiming for a higher level of work.

 

[Bob notacob]

I once asked Bob for a higher level of work .I got told to fe?k off . We don't discuss this anymore.

 

[little_critter]

Yes, just not being satisfied with ‘adequate’ can he do a bit more?
Eg he can stay balanced in the corners, can we now go deeper into the corners.
He can do a few steps of medium trot, can we now ask for more steps without him rushing / breaking?
He no longer slobs around on the forehand, can we now ask him to work towards a more advanced outline (shift the weight back, more elevated chest)
It’s just in each circumstance asking “can we now ask for a bit more?” (Be that more quality or quantity or a new movement)

 

[Pinkvboots]

Yes, just not being satisfied with ‘adequate’ can he do a bit more?
Eg he can stay balanced in the corners, can we now go deeper into the corners.
He can do a few steps of medium trot, can we now ask for more steps without him rushing / breaking?
He no longer slobs around on the forehand, can we now ask him to work towards a more advanced outline (shift the weight back, more elevated chest)
It’s just in each circumstance asking “can we now ask for a bit more?” (Be that more quality or quantity or a new movement)

Good explanation

 

[Tiddlypom]

The trainer commenting that “we now need to start asking more of him” should mean just that - to up either or both of the quality and the technical difficulty of his work. That is part of normal progress when training a horse.

However when my List one dressage judge trainer told me “whatever he offers you it won’t be enough, demand more” I walked. That is how to sicken a horse.

 

[scats]

The trainer commenting that “we now need to start asking more of him” should mean just that - to up either or both of the quality and the technical difficulty of his work. That is part of normal progress when training a horse.

However when my List one dressage judge trainer told me “whatever he offers you it won’t be enough, demand more” I walked. That is how to sicken a horse.

I left a trainer for pretty much that reason. My horse was offering all she physically could and the trainer was still demanding I constantly push for more.

 

[Alibear]

Sometimes, it can mean the horse takes more responsibility. When you're trotting, the horse maintains the trot, rhythm and balance without further input from you, and then you can request the next movement or gate when you want it.
My horse is not good at this; she likes to make me work

 

[mariew]

Sometimes, it can mean the horse takes more responsibility. When you're trotting, the horse maintains the trot, rhythm and balance without further input from you, and then you can request the next movement or gate when you want it.
My horse is not good at this; she likes to make me work

This is so important to me, I hate having to nag! I want to ask once and horse then takes responsibility for not changing their pace until asked another question (well broadly). It's really common for teachers to ask to squeeze every other step in rising trot for example to keep a horse going. Ugh.

 

[KEK]

This is so important to me, I hate having to nag! I want to ask once and horse then takes responsibility for not changing their pace until asked another question (well broadly). It's really common for teachers to ask to squeeze every other step in rising trot for example to keep a horse going. Ugh.

Me too. My pony has to consistently be told 'canter canter canter' and I would much prefer he stay in the gait until I say otherwise. I have ridden horses that do that so I know it's possible..but instructor/pony trainer doesn't think it's possible for him

 

[lme]

I would feel quite uncomfortable demanding something from my horse. It has taken a while, but I've now found a trainer who is good at detail but totally accepts that my mare is allowed to indicate that she finds something too hard / not to her liking and that I will listen and adjust my expectations.

 

[little_critter]

I would feel quite uncomfortable demanding something from my horse. It has taken a while, but I've now found a trainer who is good at detail but totally accepts that my mare is allowed to indicate that she finds something too hard / not to her liking and that I will listen and adjust my expectations.

I don't think anyone is suggesting we demand anything. But if your horse is easily doing the things you ask for on a day to day basis, then its probably time to challenge you and him a bit (your horse may appreciate a change, a chance to try something new and achieve it).
Always listen to your horse and don't ask for anything you don't feel pretty sure is achievable for him.
Mine likes to use his brain and is pretty pleased with himself when he works something out. If I did nothing but ask him to trot 20m circles I think he'd be bored and sour.

 

[dorsetladette]

Sometimes, it can mean the horse takes more responsibility. When you're trotting, the horse maintains the trot, rhythm and balance without further input from you, and then you can request the next movement or gate when you want it.
My horse is not good at this; she likes to make me work

At present this is what I would think an instructor was suggesting with the level of schooling my 4yr old has had. Asking him to maintain the gait/speed and direction requested without constant correction.

But then when we are more established I'd expect an instructor to be suggesting this.

Yes, just not being satisfied with ‘adequate’ can he do a bit more?
Eg he can stay balanced in the corners, can we now go deeper into the corners.
He can do a few steps of medium trot, can we now ask for more steps without him rushing / breaking?
He no longer slobs around on the forehand, can we now ask him to work towards a more advanced outline (shift the weight back, more elevated chest)
It’s just in each circumstance asking “can we now ask for a bit more?” (Be that more quality or quantity or a new movement)

It all depends on where you are in the process and where you are aiming to be.

Right now I'm happy with not micro managing him.

 

[catkin]

The trainer commenting that “we now need to start asking more of him” should mean just that - to up either or both of the quality and the technical difficulty of his work. That is part of normal progress when training a horse.

However when my List one dressage judge trainer told me “whatever he offers you it won’t be enough, demand more” I walked. That is how to sicken a horse.

There is a world of difference between 'ask' and 'demand'

 

[Tiddlypom]

There is a world of difference between 'ask' and 'demand'

Tbh I would still have walked if she had said ‘ask’. She wanted me to pressure him every stride without reward. Nope.

 

[catkin]

Tbh I would still have walked if she had said ‘ask’. She wanted me to pressure him every stride without reward. Nope.

I think this is the nagging doubt I have about dressage - whatever your horse gives you it's not always 'enough'.

Well I'd hate to live under that sort of pressure so I sure ain't asking my ponies (yes there are times they have to do things they would rather not just like us but we can't live like that without chill time)

 

[lme]

I don't think anyone is suggesting we demand anything. But if your horse is easily doing the things you ask for on a day to day basis, then its probably time to challenge you and him a bit (your horse may appreciate a change, a chance to try something new and achieve it).
Always listen to your horse and don't ask for anything you don't feel pretty sure is achievable for him.
Mine likes to use his brain and is pretty pleased with himself when he works something out. If I did nothing but ask him to trot 20m circles I think he'd be bored and sour.

But that's not demanding is it? It is introducing something new, in a way and at a pace that works for your horse. For me demanding implies pushing a horse outside their comfort zone.

 

[oldie48]

Catkin, I think it might help if you stopped thinking in terms of "dressage" and think of your schooling as training for whatever job you want your horse to be able to do. Most amateur riders don't compete above medium, most are prelim/novice level and there's nothing at those levels that I would not expect any reasonably schooled horse or pony to be able to achieve. Even out hacking I liked to have a horse that was on my aids, could carry me because he was using his back properly, would respond to leg aids so I could open and close gates, I could let have a good stretch but would allow me to pick up the reins without losing relaxation and had brakes as well as an accelerator. None of things come without proper training. If you show jump you need to be able to adjust the canter easily and if you're able to pop in a decent change when changing direction it helps with balance etc. No need to do "dressage" just do decent training. Sorry if this sounds a bit patronising, I don't mean to be but I do get a bit fed up with people implying there's something inherently cruel about dressage, there isn't but some people use cruel methods to achieve their aims.

 

[Ceriann]

I think this is the nagging doubt I have about dressage - whatever your horse gives you it's not always 'enough'.

Well I'd hate to live under that sort of pressure so I sure ain't asking my ponies (yes there are times they have to do things they would rather not just like us but we can't live like that without chill time)

I agree and have struggled and continue to struggle with it. I have a lovely willing horse, who always tries super hard provided you are clear what you are asking. I am now negotiating the balance of asking her for more, knowing what she can do, what she will willingly do and what she wants to do. I think as an owner/rider you should always consider is there reward along with challenge (as in a stretch for something extra not conflict) - be that in the ride, the mix of riding and the overall lifestyle you offer.

 

[catkin]

Catkin, I think it might help if you stopped thinking in terms of "dressage" and think of your schooling as training for whatever job you want your horse to be able to do. Most amateur riders don't compete above medium, most are prelim/novice level and there's nothing at those levels that I would not expect any reasonably schooled horse or pony to be able to achieve. Even out hacking I liked to have a horse that was on my aids, could carry me because he was using his back properly, would respond to leg aids so I could open and close gates, I could let have a good stretch but would allow me to pick up the reins without losing relaxation and had brakes as well as an accelerator. None of things come without proper training. If you show jump you need to be able to adjust the canter easily and if you're able to pop in a decent change when changing direction it helps with balance etc. No need to do "dressage" just do decent training. Sorry if this sounds a bit patronising, I don't mean to be but I do get a bit fed up with people implying there's something inherently cruel about dressage, there isn't but some people use cruel methods to achieve their aims.

I absolutely agree with you - which is why I used 'dressage' (ie the competition sport/discipline) not 'training' which should help every horse. I may be thinking about this in the wrong way - it sometimes feels like the human striving for absolute perfection is not always tempered with regard to the horse in the sport, and the horse can never do 'enough' in the same way as a show-jumper say leaving all the fences up, or a lowly hacking pony like mine who has worked out that a neat turn on the forehand will get us through a gate and onto a more interesting track quicker.

 

[NinjaPony]

Asking more when your horse is happy and comfortable with the level of training you are doing means taking those next steps upwards, this should be gradual and take into account each horse’s physical and mental condition. It’s constantly assessing where you’re at now and whether you can start to increase the level of difficulty without upsetting or pushing your horse beyond what they can do.

When I started competing at elementary on a 15 year old, I was asking more of him, but that looked like being a bit quicker off the aids, holding a slightly more advanced outline, working more precisely and improving his balance and rhythm. I wasn’t prepared to start pushing him for a bigger walk (he didn’t have one) or start getting after him for a bigger medium trot (there was a very clear limit to his trot extension abilities). I also only did the one test at a time to give him more recovery time. I think asking is fine, you just have to be prepared to listen if they say no.

 

[dorsetladette]

I was watching some Michael Peace Youtube video's at the weekend. In one he was re backing a 'dangerous' horse over a period of time at his own yard. He used the term 'lets ask a little more of him' while asking the horse to move forwards loose in the round pen with a saddle on. He was literally meaning to 'ask the horse to move his feet slightly quicker' once the horse reacted to his request he backed off.