1/3 share of a horsebox?

[Jango]

I can't afford to run my own lorry and I can't afford a 4x4/trailer as I use my mega economic diesel car to do a lot of miles for work (100% not interested in a single trailer as in my opinion they are unsafe). At the moment I go along with my instructor to most competitions as her 5 year old is at a similar level to my horse, if I want to go to something different I hire a lorry but that is very expensive each time (£100).

I've been offered a 1/3 share in a 7.5t (I have a C1 license and im 26) and I wondered if anyone has had a similar arrangement and could offer any advice?

I'm going to see/test drive the lorry tomorrow and they are going to put it through it's plating before I make a decision, so I've got plenty of time to consider and I will get lorry checked by a mechanic before I agree to anything. It's a basic MAN M reg, stalled for 3 but I imagine weight wise will carry 2 and a basic overnight living! Initial buy in would be £1500 with a third of all costs (insurance, tax, plating, repairs etc) ongoing. Original share was 2 sisters + person A, sister one has moved to germany for at least 3 years and person A wants to sell as she has a new baby and doesn't want a box anymore as priorities have changed. So I would be sharing with sister two who is 24 and doesn't have a lorry license, person A used to do the driving and now the sisters mum does it. Me and sister two are competing at a similar level, we've bumped into each other at a few events this year anyway and we are both eventing BE80/90 so wanting to do farm rides, 80/90 sj and BD. I've known everyone involved for 3 years or so but they are more acquaintances than friends as we haven't really been on the same yard ever. The lorry would be kept on a yard about 5 mins down the road from where I keep my horse.

On the positive side:
* for around £60 (+ diesel) a month I will have a lorry I should have fairly free rein to use
* sisters mum isn't horsey so not mega keen on driving around so I think I should be able to choose where we go to some extent
* It will be good to have someone to go out and about with as my instructor and her fab 5 year old will be moving onto to bigger things next year

On the negative side:
* I will have a regularly commitment to paying for it, if horse is lame etc would still need to keep paying this now I 'pay as I go'
* Could be tricky to work out sharing it, cause arguments etc
*Payments could be one off and large if something goes badly wrong as it is an old lorry

I'm pretty flexible (I have to be without my own transport!!) and so am used to tagging on with other people, I think this could be a fab opportunity to get out and about more, especially as my instructor won't be taking me out as much next year. But obviously has the potential to go badly wrong too!!

 

[Happy Hunter]

personally - if it was me,, I wouldn't. Imagine the arguments if something 'big' blows up when you take the lorry on that once a year long drive to championship or something.... (Yes, I can understand how wonderful it sounds now!)
Also, I have my trailer 5mins down the road, its a complete and utter PITA to go fetch it, load it, get horse ready, and remember to clean it out etc. before return.

Definitely some seriously good lawyer type contract should be in place!!

 

[Dusty85]

What happens it two or all of you want to use it on the same day?

 

[fliffkins]

Personally I wouldn't! I did several years ago, and whilst we were all on the same yard it worked well, none of us could drive it so relied on dad's, partners etc to drive it. Downsides were one of the sharers dad's worked at a large distribution company so quite often the wagon would be parked at his works. The said sharer and her dad often took it upon themselves to make improvements to the wagon, once they changed the cab. As two of us never agreed to this we refused to contribute towards this. Also over time we have all moved yards, I now live over 70 miles away and 4 years later 2 of us are still trying to get the box sold, I don't have access to it , whilst I had 2 good seasons of competing with it, it was a huge and costly mistake.

 

[MileAMinute]

I would proceed with caution and def have some legal input/contract in place.

 

[PaddyMonty]

I wouldn't proceed, with caution or otherwise!

 

[FestiveFuzz]

I'm another who would avoid. Actually had a similar conversation crop up as me and another livery regularly borrow a 3.5T to go to events together, whilst this would work all the while we're on the same yard our worry was what would happen if either of us moved or circumstances changed. If you do proceed as others have said, get a good contract drawn up.

 

[ihatework]

I think you would need to discuss all the possible 'what if' scenarios in advance and get in writing a concencus.

What if one of you has an accident in it? Or the vehicle is being shared but only the one of you doing the driving? Who pays for damage/Insurance excess? What if lorry off the road for a while being repaired and others loose entry money?
What if there is a mechanical failure? Presumably you all split the bill.
What about if you want to go to different competitions? How do you allocate fairly?
What minor damage caused by the horses on board gets repaired and what is not?

 

[Jango]

Thanks for the feedback, definitely something to consider what to do if either of us moved. My thoughts were if it works then it's fabulous and if it doesn't then best case scenario we would sell the box and I would recoup some money, worst case if we horrendously fell out or something then I would stop paying the monthly cost and lose £1500 which in the grand scheme of horses isn't a horrendous amount if I have used a lorry for a year for example. If it was a £5000k buy in cost I wouldn't even consider the prospect. Also I think it's promising that this agreement has worked well for the past 4 years with the 2 sisters and person A, they still get on great etc.

My housemate is a solicitor so I would definitely run any agreements past her before I signed anything.

if they wanted to do something I didn't want to do I would just compete another day, we live in Cheshire and there are plenty of shows each weekend within 1 hr drive. We've both got nice allrounders and I'm happy to SJ/Dressage/hack/farm ride/event so I recon this would be rare. Only scenario I would definitely want to use it would be something I had qualified for (maybe once a year) and so would just hire one for that day (as I do now) if we couldn't agree.

It being down the road isn't really a problem, as the other option is picking up a hire lorry from 10 miles away anyways so that needs cleaning and returning everytime.

Obviously it's not the ideal scenario but next year it's go out once every 6 weeks in a hire lorry or try this and go out much more for a similar running cost. Arggggg!

 

[Jango]

Just saw your questions ihatework, thank you very much, will definitely discuss and get answers in writing

 

[poiuytrewq]

Oh no I just wouldn't. Have you looked into buying a little van conversion or something? I know you have mentioned money already but in fact they are so cheap to run that if your often paying £100 for hiring it would maybe work out cheaper, especially as you will find yourself able to get out and about so much more.
We have bought a 3.5 Renault- ours is actually a little lorry not van but costs £150 per year to insure and is really economical diesel wise.

 

[Annagain]

I'm an optimist. I think it could work with a proper agreement about things like who gets priority if you want to go different places (do you take it in turns to have first refusal or does the most 'serious' competition take precedence?); maintenance (does the £60 a month include putting some money aside into a joint account to cover any work needed? If not maybe it should rather than trying to pay bills when they come in and one of you not being able to afford it) and what happens if one of you doesn't need it any more (I assume you sell your 'share' as the current share is trying to do with you?). What happens when sister 1 comes back? If she's still paying her 1/3 while she's away, does she expect priority when she's home? It would seem fair, but could affect your plans. What happens if it needs so much work it's not worth fixing or if it's in an accident and is written off? I know insurance will cover things but that's rarely enough to pay for a new one. Do you go your separate ways at this point?

I assume whoever uses it fills it up at the end of the journey and that's how you know you're only paying for the fuel you use to save arguments on that front. If you share it to go to the same place you split the bill for refilling it.

I'd be wary of thinking you would have more control as the driver, you have to think about it as a totally equitable agreement or it will end in argument. You definitely need some sort of written agreenment but if you're all flexible, reasonable people there's no reason why it shouldn't work.

 

[Bernster]

Hmm I did write out an answer but doesn't seem to have registered. Try again...

I think it could work but there are potential issues, which you can iron out to an extent by talking about them first, agreeing the approach, and a bit of trust and flexibility on both sides. Think about what costs are covered, how many times on average you get to use it a year/month, what happens if you both want to go out to different things (how do you deal with veto), what happens if horse or lorry is out of action for a long period, what would happen if one wants to sell. That kind of thing. You may not have a legally binding contract (and really would you sue if you did), but it would help to have these things clear at the beginning so you know if you would 'suit'.

I informally share my lorry with a good friend and it's worked really well. She doesn't own it though which I think is better. She shares the running costs, insurance, MOT, diesel etc., and she gets to use it in the week, on weekends if I'm not using it and we often went to things together. We've stopped it now though as she has moved yards so it got too tricky. I think it's easier if you just share costs and not ownership myself but I don't see why your arrangement couldn't work.

 

[Greylegs]

I'm another who definitely wouldn't do it. I can foresee all sorts of issues in the event of sharers wanting to go different places at different times, someone wanting out of the arrangement for whatever reason, cost of repairs etc. A potential minefield.

Also ... I have had a single trailer for three years and never had any issue with it. I can go where I want, when I want with no problems. OP, why do you think they're unsafe? If you can tow it, it would be the answer and would make you independent of anyone else's issues or availability.

 

[ester]

I've known people have lorry shares in the past and get on quite happily with it.

 

[MissMoo]

I wouldn't proceed, with caution or otherwise!

Sorry, but I'm with this. Friends did similar several years ago and it got complicated and unpleasant.

 

[PorkChop]

Another to say don't do it, but then I have my own transport, so easy to say.

There are so many variables, but if you do go ahead please get a decent contract sorted out.

 

[Equi]

Not something i would ever do to be honest. What if you need it but someone else wants it too, who wins? What if it crashes? Who claims? Its too tricky..

 

[Capriole]

No chance, not something I would ever consider. Sounds like a drama waiting to happen.

 

[LovesCobs]

no way. I nearly did a 50% deal with someone I thought was my friend. I'm so glad I didnt, the friendship fell apart. it was hard enough dealing with the stuff in the tack room and the shared clippers when I left! we actually didnt officially fall out but the friendship changed significantly and I moved.a shared box would have been messy to deal with

 

[BlackRider]

Avoid like the plague!

you can hire small boxes for £100 per day, without any hassle over MOT, mechanical breakdowns, if horsey is lame, then you don't hire the box.

I once bought a wagon - worst thing I ever did, broke down twice cost me thousands to repair, then struggled to sell it.

I stuck with trailers, and then when I stopped competing, sold the trailer, and just hired wagons if I needed too.

 

[Loulou2002]

I shared a lorry with a good friend of mine for about three years. We had no problems at all. Everything was split down the middle. When she decided she didn't want the lorry anymore i bought her half.