1 year old bitch peeing and pooping at night.

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Skelly6

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Hi, first time posting but I'm after some advice please as getting to the end of my tether now ..

Have owned labs since the late 80's. Currently have 3 labs - a black and a yellow - both bitches. We also have a pup, well 1 year old now, home bred last September from our black bitch - new owners withdrew at last minute and to cut a long story short we kept her! She's extremely nervy, was the runt of the litter [didn't think she was going to make it when she arrived etc.] although she's daft and nervous she's very switched on and picks things up very quickly ... apart from night time toileting ...

She was house trained the same way as all my other labs have been - escorted outside, stayed with, key word, non-performance repeated short while later etc. etc. she was coming up on 6 mths old befroe it finally 'clicked' to go outside to toilet.

Night times we're still trying ..

She's in and out all day as are her mother and 'aunt' - they have access to the world outside all day from approx 6am until approx 10pm. Even if the back door is shut the yellow bitch can open it so we just leave it open ... she will go out and toilet quite happily. last toilet is 10pmish [last night it was 11pm as dh was up late] and she was taken out to perform, she did and came up to her bed. At 2am she was wandering so I took her outside, she performed again, at 7am she had pooped and piddle don the plastic mat we have resorted to at the door where she leaves her morning deposits ... the other 2 will whimper or shine if they need to go out dring the night and when one goes, they all go out.

She was in a crate until she was 8 moths old at night time - had to bring her out as I simply could not keep up with the washing of bedding and hosing down of pooped puppy every mmorning - un-crated her and brought her upstairs with us to see if she would give us hints she needed to go out but still nothing ...

last week I le ther out at 10pm, my dh let her out at midnight when he came to bed, I got up with the yellow at 3am and she went out then, at 5am dh heard hermoving, took her downstairs to let her out and found a deposit and a puddle ..

We've tried setting an alarm clock, have tried re-crating her in the bedroom [no-one slept and still had peep and poop to clean up] she's no told off when we find the deposits - we just clean it up - she's always let out for a toilet break when we clean up the deposits, we've covered the carpet with a tarp at night time as I got so fed up with cleaning the carpet every single morning - carpet has been cleaned with odour removing carpet cleaner and with a deep clean carpet machine - not just scrubbed and left to dry - we've literally tried everything! I read that its best to feed dogs as late as possible due to the food moving throught them so all 3 are fed at 9pm - dry food - I cna't think of anything else we can do - they are all 3 excercised regularly with extra long walks at weekends ..

any advice would be very welcome
 
I would be worried if my adult dogs needed to out regularly in the middle of the night, so I think I would swap the main meal time to morning. I certainly couldn't cope with having my sleep interrupted like that every night - and we have had a lot of Labs! If it continues, I would speak to the vet.
 
I’m the same, I feed my dogs once a day around 5 but maybe you could try feeding even earlier. I would also make sure she knows she’s doing wrong, it sounds a bit like she’s running the household and just doing her own thing. It’s all very well the advice to just clear up after dogs and not say anything but are you sure she knows she’s not to go in the house. She’s an adult dog and something just hasn’t clicked with her.
 
Just thinking about this. It sounds as if she doesn't realise that at night she has to ask to go out. She is doing what she does during the day but only getting as far as the locked door, so she does what she needs to do there. I would shut the door and insist that the others ask to go out during the day - lock it/bolt it/turn the handle upside down, if necessary, with luck she will copy the others and understand that she needs to let you know. But I would still feed earlier in the day.
 
The latest I feed is 7.00pm, so I'd definitely feed earlier.

You say it's the 'pup' that has an issue, and obviously soiling overnight is an issue, but you also mention that an adult will also get you up in the middle of the night - so maybe it simply is an issue of feeding so late at night...
 
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9 pm seems very late to feed a big meal. i feed the main meal in the morning and a very small one between 6 and 7.....i would also get a wee sample and take her to the vet to rule out any infection if you havent already done so.
 
Hi, thanks all for the advice. We changed the tea time feed on advice of others - that it takes 7/8 hrs for the 'tea' to work it way through - evidently this has done nothing to change the situation. We'll go back to 'normal' feed time for tea.

Adult dogs will wake us once in a blue moon to go out - its not a regular occurance.

I agree, she is doing what she does in the day time - going to the door - finding it locked does her business as close to it as she can ... we've tried shutting the door [locking it as one can open it!] and all we got were deposits on the door mat all day .... She obviously knows she's supposed to go to the door to get out but, unlike the other two, when she finds it shut she simply 'goes' and makes no attempt to let anyone know she needs to get out - day or night time - the others, when faced with a locked door, will let us know - a look, a whimper, a whine, come put their foot on us - anything to get out attention [should they need it as we usually know when they're trying to get out] unfortunatley she just goes to the door, sees its shut and does her business there and then! Again, following advice we've not told her off when we find deposits - not even sure that she would know she's done them - and we have to be very careful with her as shouting/raised voices/angry voices tend to send her slinking off trembling - she really is a conundrum of a dog! [we're quite glad we ended up with her as I do think new owners would have given up on her long before now]
Its the 'not signal' that is driving us mad - last night, about 8pm, she deposited in the playroom - no signal she needed to go - she simply got up, went into the next room then came back in again - followed by a smell!!

we're putting feeding time back to pre-7pm [used to be 6pm which suited everyone fine], shutting doors and watching her, escorting her out to make sure she acutally does perform when outside and isn't just sniffing the air, I can't re-crate her - i can't face the washing again [sometimes in the middle of the night] I don't sleep well anyway so getting up to let a dog out isn't really breaking any sleep cycle for me - we've just got to get her to realise she needs to ask to go out .... All 3 get a last 9pm 'late' walk and a good long walk earlier in the day before tea and the older 2 will perform on the last walk usually - she doesn't!

Thank you for the advice - I'm keen to try anything that may work -
 
She did give you a signal. She got up and went in the next room.

We home board dogs, and often have 'oldies' in. They're restricted to two rooms, the sitting room and kitchen. We have one very old guy with us at the moment (he's a regular) who has poor bladder control. When he needs to go, he needs to go. So if he gets up and moves to the kitchen one of us immediately gets up with him. Often it's just for water, but equally it will be to stand and stare at the door so we immediately take him out.

All dogs give us ques, it's up to us to read them.
 
When we got Luna as a pup, it was summer time, so back door open all the time. She soon got the idea about going to the toilet in the garden, but never had to “ask” to go out. Before it got cold, we started to shut the back door when she was in the garden, she learnt to ask to come in, which in turn taught her to ask to go out.
 
I would stop the free rein thing in the day, and make them learn that peeing and pooing is done at regular times. We feed last meal at 4.30 and they get a walk between 7 and 8 when they do last poos, then a wee break at bedtime.
They need to learn to 'hold on'.
 
Does she get a regular wee later than 9.00pm? I would go back to the 6.00pm mealtime and make sure that they all go out immediately before bed. 9.00 pm seems very early for a last wee, if I've understood you, they will have done 6 hours by 3.00 am and be ready for another wee. It does sound as if she hasn't really been taught to ask to go out, I think you will need to go back a few steps, treat her as a young pup and really keep an eye on her so that you can respond to her signals and get her outside when she needs to go, during the day.

If you are concerned about the cleaning up in the meantime, I suggest that you put puppy pads down by the door and then at least the cleaning will be easier/less messy.
 
amymay - thank you - I agree she did give a signal by going into the next room but she potters about all evening - she will go into the next room to fetch her toys, have a drink, lie on the bed in there - we have an L shaped house and to get to the back door we go to the end of the long L - so through a couple of rooms - for her to potter about in and out of the 'playroom' and sitting room is not unusual - I think the frustrating thing about that incident was that the back door was open!

Pearlsasinger - thank you - her last regular wee break is between 10pm and midnight - depending on who i still up :) its usually round about 10.30pm. Their last walk is 8/8.30pm. We've tried the puppy pads, although I wasn't keen as we'd really done away with them after the initial house training - she was performing on them but was also ripping them up making even more of a mess so we resorted to the tarp at the door.

We've gone back to the basics so many times with her - In all the dogs we've owned [and that's a fair few over the years!] I've never known one that does this on such a regular basis. Back door is shut once it gets dark now and she's taken out several times during the evening - alwasy escorted to ensure she's performing and not just enjoying the scenery ..
Last night her last outside toilet was 10.45. She DID wake me last night at 1.34am - cold wet nose - and she immediately moved to the bedroom door, I followed her, got downstairs and there was a puddle and a poop on the tarp - she went outside [as did the yellow older bitch] and I saw her having a piddle. Nothing else when i came downstairs at 6am and they all went out for morning relievement, but at 6.30, despite access to the outside and myself and dh up and about, she'd piddled on the hallway rug! there really is no rhyme nor reason to what she does at all!
Am seriously considering re-crating her, in the kitchen so she doesn't disturb the entire household with her howling all night, and ptu up with the washing the dog every morning again [she poops in her crate even!] and making a call to the vets to see if there is some underlying issues ... thank you
 
You poor thing, I do feel for you. I have a spaniel that is proving impossible to house train, but I have copped out and she now lives in a kennel!
 
I think probably the time has come for a vet check, ime Labs are usually easy to housetrain, so at least a health problem should be ruled out at this stage.
I'm another who understands how you feel, I will never have another jrt!
 
Clodagh said:
I would stop the free rein thing in the day, and make them learn that peeing and pooing is done at regular times. We feed last meal at 4.30 and they get a walk between 7 and 8 when they do last poos, then a wee break at bedtime.
They need to learn to 'hold on'.
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Agree with this, our two labs are taken for pee/poo breaks at regular times. They can't learn to hold on if they have access to the garden all day, and this will be why they are waking you in the night, something I have never had with an adult dog (unless they are ill!)
 
If she is pottering about all evening she does not sound tired or settled which means you are missing the Q's (there will be some).
Are her poo's solid?
Does she drink excessively?
I would go back to crating and have her on a house line so you cant miss anything, at the same time I would massively increase mental stimulation and look at her exercise levels-my dogs have always just wanted to rest in the evenings.
I would always restrict a dogs roaming of the house to just the room I am in and keep them in sight until they are reliably house trained.
To be honest you will have your work cut out as she has a long history of doing this, I would look at what I am feeding and also get her checked by a vet (just in case), I would kennel at night until I had the day sorted and she was reliably clean for at least 4 plus hours.
You can also teach her to ring a bell that hangs at the back door for access to the garden-long winded but if it gets you to where you need to be then very much worth it.
Good luck, its hard work to house train some, I have 8 6 week old pups here at the moment and all I seem to be doing is picking up poop and wiping up pee.
 
Agree with Twiggy, you need to control every movement. If she's not crated she should be on a lead or in a kennel or staked out.
Similar to the other thread, it sounds like a stress thing, you say yourself she is nervy and every dog I've ever met that isn't clean overnight/soils own bed, has some sort of nerve issue, if a medicinal reason has been ruled out.
 
Wow, poor you, it does sounds like you have tried everything! However, as others have said, i think you need to make a few changes. Personally, if it was me, i'd make (& write down) a new plan & stick to it rigidly. The first thing i'd do is a vet check, including urine tests. Feed early ... i'd give the last feed at no later than about 5pm if possible. Another thing you could possibly do as a last resort (& i may get shot down in flames for saying this, but the circumstances seem exceptional, & it would only be required until training is established) is to remove access to water later on at night. Close the door during the day so she learns to ask, keep her in one room so you can learn to read any signs she gives - some dogs are so subtle it can be difficult. Don't give her any feedback at all (eye contact, talking) when she's had an accident, but plenty of praise when she does right. Crating wise - if she howls all night then she's not crate trained, so you'd need to go back to basics on that before using it as a solution. If she's crying & stressed in her crate, she is more likely to mess, so all you will have done is contained & probably worsened the problem (my strict rule is never to close the crate door on a distressed or crying dog - & as a result the dogs i have crate trained love their crates & will even ask to get in at bedtime if the open doors have swung shut). Good luck, i hope you manage to get it sorted, it must be very testing for you, you sound like you deserve a medal!
 
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Have you had a health check? If you are certain it isn't an infection of some sort, I would be looking at diet - my new rehomed cavalier was a nightmare until I realised he was lactose intolerant. And a neighbour's yorkshire terrorist was also a problem, diarrhoea and itchy skin. After spending ££££s at the vets on Science Diet a local pet shop owner suggested he try her on grain free and it sorted it all.
Put her on a diet of chicken and rice for a while, and then gradually introduce hypo allergenic and grain free one by one to see if either of them cause the problem. I buy a cheap and cheerful version from Aldi so it doesn't have to be top of the range like Hills. Try grain free first, that is often the culprit.
 
New spaniel is a bit like this, she doesn't ask to go out. The patio door has been open almost all day since we had her but getting too cold now. I caught her circling on the lounge carpet yesterday and quickly shoved her outside, but if I hadn't seen her there would have been a very large poo! She does get praised when she goes outside.
 
Hi thank you to everyone for the advice - I'll try and answer as many as I can but apologies if I miss you from the advice you've given me :) first - I AM at the end of my tether - I said last week if this continues much longer she's getting kenneled permenantly outside - or she's going :( - cue much wailing and crying and more from other family members ...

She's a pup we bred ourselves, She was the runt of the litter, literally resucitated her when she was born - she's always been slow to pick things up but when she gets it she 'gets it' - shes's the 3rd of our current dogs and the 8th of the family dogs , all labs, and we've never EVER known one like her in temprement or with this problem - I say temprement - she is so docile, loving, calm, good natured etc. but on the flip side very anxious and nervy.

She gets lots of long walks and runs every day and she DOES settle in the evenings - she's not always on the go, she's usually part of the dog heap in the corner :) but when she does wake up she'll potter into the next room [which we can see throught he glass doors dividing it] and will come back with a chew or go for a drink or to lie on the bed in the other room. She also does training classes with loads of mental stimulation twice a week and agility once a week [love training nights as she comes in, flops on the carpet and doesn't move until bed time ... she's exhausted but still poops!]

she doesn't drink excessively and her poo's are solid. She's on a hypo/grain free diet anyway as the other two are grain free.

When she has an accident I completely ignore her - no eye contact, no voice nothing but when she does perfomr outside or on the very very rare occaison she asks to go out, she gets lots of praise - she's not left outside when she goes out - she's accompanied.

A for the crating - she was born in a whelping pen, graduated to a penned area when they outgrew the whelping pen - all sectioned off for feeding,sleeping, toileting areas etc. Once her litter mates left she was put into a crate and settled well but every single morning we'd wake up to a poop covered puppy ... as you say, the crate was open in the day time, she had free access to it, would take herself off into it for naps so no issue with her going into it. [her mum was the first we had in a crate - mum LOVES her crate - when we go on jolly hols she gets all excited when she sees her crate getting packed - our yellow lab who's a bit loopy (loopy Lucy) also loves the crate and gets in on top of mum (Millie) ...] Rosie, the pup, has no issues with going into the crate, has no issues if I shut the door - is quite happy to be in there as long as she cans ee us - she craves company - not sure if this is her nerves or not ... they have a super large kennel in the bask yard and she has no problem with going into that. We stopped crating her as I physically could not clean her up any more each morning and the constant washing of dog and beding was getting me down. Whilst she is quite happy to go in the crate during the day, night time is another matter ..!

We've acutally just bought a set of bells for the door and we're in the process of touch training with them.

am making a vets appt this week to get her checked out.

thanks
 
Firstly, do get the vet to check for any kind of medical problem which may cause this.

Other than just plugging away with puppy type toilet training, it is very hard to know what to advise. If she takes herself outside, could you train her to use a dog flap and get one installed (rather drastic I know!)
 
only other thing i can think of, how many poos does she do in a 24 hour period. if its lots maybe she is getting too much to eat....i have had dogs for many years and never had a housetraining problem till i got my latest little terrier, i did get it sorted in the end but i know how you must be feeling...good luck
 
Pearlsasinger said:
That does sound quite likely, imo.
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A friend had a golden who was squished at birth and needed help to get breathing. She sounded a lot like your dog - incredibly slow to toilet train and learn anything, very kind but nervous and just a bit 'odd.' Vets blamed it on mild brain damage. She's currently 7 and quite happy and entirely useless! Lives in a pack of three and the others look after her a lot.

She was housebroken at about 11 months, going onto one meal a day and no free access to the garden helped but it just seemed to click one day.

Hope your little one gets sorted.
 
thank you - at the back of my mind I've always wondered if she's a bit 'special' ... I work with SEN children and one of my own is mildly aspergic so I guess clue were there .. As a teeny pup she was always the last to do anything .. her 6 litter mates soon learnt how to climb out of the whelping crate - she never did ... I've been watching her even more this week and there literally are no signals she needs to go outside - she doesn't nudge the door, whimper, circle, come back to us then go off again just goes and performs ... last night her last outside toilet before bed was 11pm, I got up at 1.30 and took her outside, at 4.30 she had pooped and pee'd ... am going to keep a diary to try and pin point times x
 
I havent read all the replies so apologies if Im repeating something


to me, you are feeding, still, far too late. Mine are fed twice a day, 7am and 4pm.

I also wonder with the free access to outside, what else she is consuming. Ive found that these types unfortunately are often poo eaters, among other things.

You need to activate Boot Camp !!

Start by not feeding after 4pm. Cut down what you are feeding also. No treats or anything the rest of the time. Stop letting her have free access to outside - keep her crated for now (no bedding in there) or supervised and with you, a long trailing lead if necessary. Treat her as you would a younger puppy , go out with her every.single.time. This will be time consuming and hard work for now but if you want to break this cycle you need to do something fairly drastic.
 
I agree with many others: vet check- which you have booked and the possibility that her bad start has effected her brain capacity. But ultimately I think she is old enough now to hold it. I fostered a 9 month old puppy and they held it all night straight away. My lab will often refuse to get off his bed in the evening so holds it from whenever he last went out early evening until the next morning.

I hope you get to the bottom of it, must be so frustrating as you are far beyond the puppy age when you expect clean up duties!
 
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