1 year old dog testing me!!

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Smith123

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Dog sitting for my mum again as she is having problems with her 1 year old dog, he was very strong minded and naughty as a puppy. He is far to smart for his own good, jumps up on the sides, escapes if you leave the door open for even 1 second! He watches your every move so he knows when he can steal things (brushes, rugs, food, shoes etc etc) he is the perfect dog off the lead on walks but gets very frustrated when on the lead.

His latest trick is when you go to grab him if he is being naughty or has stolen something or is bullying the other dogs is to snap at your hand as if to say get lost. He doesn't actually go for the hand (well I instinctively pull it away!) it's more of a go away snap.

Today for instance the other dog had a coat on while they were out at the stables, all of a sudden the naughty one decided he wanted the coat and was going to run away with it, before I got to them he had wrestled the other dog out of the coat and was running around with it, I managed to corner him and as I went to get the coat out of his mouth he did his snap thing, I withdrew my ha d and stood for a second then went for the coat again slowly, he was fine that time. I then get him to sit down, stay etc before allowing him to go.

Am I doing the right thing ignoring the snapping? Never had a dog as clever/naughty as him before.

He sometimes refuses to do things I.e paw if I have no reward he just sits there looking at me!! How do I react to that?!

Sorry for the essay!
 
This is a horsey forum so I assume you have contact with horses.:)

What would you do with a horse that tried to nip you? Ignore it?

What would a bigger/older dog do with a year old pup that tried to nip it?
 
Smith123 said:
.......

Am I doing the right thing ignoring the snapping? Never had a dog as clever/naughty as him before.

He sometimes refuses to do things I.e paw if I have no reward he just sits there looking at me!! How do I react to that?!

.......!
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Para 1. Never ignore such behaviour. Your puppy is putting you in your place, and succeeding by the sound of it. Wallop the bloody thing, and mean it!

Para 2. Rewards? That young man is getting the better of you, and if you continue to bribe him, rather than insist upon compliance, you're going to end up with well entrenched and difficult to erase, problems.

Alec.
 
Alec Swan said:
Para 1. Never ignore such behaviour. Your puppy is putting you in your place, and succeeding by the sound of it. Wallop the bloody thing, and mean it!

Para 2. Rewards? That young man is getting the better of you, and if you continue to bribe him, rather than insist upon compliance, you're going to end up with well entrenched and difficult to erase, problems.

Alec.
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Generally speaking, I don't advocate hitting - but I think in this dog's case from what was described, I'm inclined to agree with Alec!

I do lots of table training of puppies and the first thing they often try to do is mouth/bite when you try to hold on to their face/legs. I generally ignore the behaviour and continue doing what I intend to do, and just ignore ignore ignore. But the second the behaviour shifts from biting to relaxed and paying attention, I stop doing what I'm doing and verbally praise and make a fuss. Repeat. Over and over til I can do whatever I like without them attempting to bite.

But a year old dog - taking the pish.
 
Alec Swan said:
Wallop the bloody thing, and mean it!
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Was my first thought. Scare the bejesus out of him when he does this. It's not acceptable and will only escalate! And it's not hard to fix. He's just testing. Does your mum indulge him a bit perhaps? (Meant in the nicest possible way, honestly!)
 
PucciNPoni said:
I do lots of table training of puppies and the first thing they often try to do is mouth/bite when you try to hold on to their face/legs. I generally ignore the behaviour and continue doing what I intend to do, and just ignore ignore ignore.
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Isn't a very sharp smack on the nose, quicker/cleaner/clearer/better?!
 
SkewbyTwo said:
Isn't a very sharp smack on the nose, quicker/cleaner/clearer/better?!
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No, the last thing I want them to be is afraid of me or head/hand shy. I would much rather they co-operate with me. There are times they get a very firm verbal "OY!" while I'm holding their beard or whatever to basically re=gain their attention. But no, I definitely feel that the little bit of biting on a 20 week old pup can be much more happily corrected by ignoring the bad behaviour and praising the correct.

It sounds like a lengthy process, but I can usually get them to behave within a few minutes, nearly every single time - no abuse or punishment - just by ignoring and praising when done well.
 
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Firstly what kind of dog is he ? What is he fed on ? How much exercise does he get ? How much proper training has been done ?

He sounds bored, so is doing anything he can to get your attention. Chasing him when he has something you want just teaches him to guard what he has that you want. Teach him to swap items, so that when you want him to give something up, he will happily do it. Put a harness and a short lead on him, so when he doesn't come to you, you can still get him and stop that game before it starts.

He sounds like he needs something to do, trained to know your rules and your boundaries, NOT a good wallop !!
 
amymay said:
I'd cask Cayla on here if she will rehome it for you. What breed is it?
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That's right, do what everyone else does, dump it on a rescue. ;) WRONG.

Both you and the dog will be happier, when you impose your will, teach the dog some manners, and teach it to respect you.

Alec.
 
He is a Dalmatian, on high quality food (not sugary rubbish) gets a long walk in the morning hen is outside around he yard for most of the day.

My initial response when my mum told me about it was also 'give him a smack and remind him who is boss' however the angrier you get he more wound up and aggressive he gets, instead of a smack he gets a firm yank and made to sit etc before being allowed to go on.

Sure,y smacking an already snappy dog will just lead to him being scared of the hand and snapping more when feeling distressed???
 
As is already apparent you are likely to get loads of different advice!!!! For my money if you hit/become physical with a dog you risk getting bitten or making the dog more fearful.

I would work on a 'leave it' command so that you can ask him to leave things for a reward. In the meantime always swap what he has with a higher value treat and try to avoid chasing him but get him to come to you (really nice, smelly food should do the trick).

Also work on gatting control of him by holding his collar. Don't grab or lunch for the collar but pick a moment when he is calm, work on his sits and then gently pop two fingers under his collar, reward and release. Try to repeat this all the time and make sure that getting hold of his collar does not always result in unpleasant experiences like being told off, or the end of the walk.

He does sound a bit bored so it might help if you can walk him more or try more training or activities like agility to keep him occupied.
 
Smith123,

it isn't about violence. It's about imposing your will upon a dog who is currently getting the better of you. If you up the anti, and he does the same thing, then you're not imposing your will, your becoming involved in a tit for tat fight, and one which you will lose.

If you physically walloped him now, and he turned on you and meant it, what would you do?

Walloping him is a figure of speech. To impose your will, over a dog who has no respect for you, will need to involve a level of discomfort for him and one which he can't evade, or bring to a stop, except by complying with your wishes.

Being scared of your hands isn't the point, he has to respect your hands. It's your hands and your voice and your personna which will be the focus for him. I'm really not explaining myself very well, I realise, but I suppose that the bottom line is that if you try to strike a deal with, or reason with, such a bolshy and difficult creature, he will interpret ALL acts of kindness as weakness, and he will win the argument.

For such dogs, care, praise, love and affection need to be earned. Offer them as a reward for his bad behaviour and he'll stay as he is, complete with his rewards!

Regarding feed, there's no doubt that high protein feeds can wind-up many dogs, especially youngsters, and in your shoes I'd be aiming at about 16-18% protein content.

If you are using food inducements, I'd stop. Tit bits will only serve to foster his currently self centred view of life. His reward needs to be in pleasing you.

Alec.
 
i would go and get the advice of a good trainer. This problem is easily fixed but doing so means laying boundaries and being consistent. One raised hand isnt going to solve anything long term, all you will end up with is a confused dog. Like everything else , there is no quick easy fix and you will need to look at your whole interaction with the dog.
 
I think the initial response from me would be a firm OI and a poke in the ribs to get the dog's attention. Sure in extreme cases it might get a smack on the bum - never, however, on a fearful dog! It sounded to me the dog was using pure cheek and was taking the mick - not afraid.

But I do agree that if the dog is that out of control on a regular basis, that an intervention with a good behaviourist is in order. Long term solution will not take a quick fix. Quick fix (above) was because I was understanding that you only had the dog short term. Have you the time/inclination to take your mum's dog to a behaviourist? I should have thought that SHE ought to. ;) rather than leave it for you to sort.
 
Use time out, or a screech and MEAN it. mine was a mouthy git when I first got him- not ideal in 28kg of Staff X to say the least!! When he mouthed I screeched at him like he had broken my arm- properly loud etc- he ran out the room- never mouthed me again. I too do not want a dog who is doing things for fear of repercussions such as a smack etc- its just not necessary!

For any other unwanted behaviour I use time out (thanks Cayla). Take dog by the collar and place in another room, door closed for 5 mins (unless they are making noise), open door- no eye contact, no praise nothing until they are calmly doing something you see as good behaviour .

Ans all of what Teaselmeg said! :)
 
Thanks for th advice everyone, I have been using time out which seems to work. The only problem being getting hold of him as he sees it as a game! The snapping thing is quite new and he doesn't do it that often so I wanted to iron it out and not make it a big deal rather than making him think it works...

Please keep the advice coming, I am going to be strict today and mean it! Will let you know tonight...
 
lexiedhb said:
Then dont get hold of him- remove yourself from the room he is in and shut that door.......
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is he not then just controlling where you are by getting you to leave his space

i would keep a lightweight long line on him, then you can remove him from the room with no anger/frustration/fear or risk.

my experience of dalmations is fairly limited, they are i am not keen on as all barring one that i have known have approached/reached maturity and become dominant and if not handled properly this becomes aggressive dominance. i think the levels of excersise needed for this breed are dramatically under estimated
 
I used time out with Harley when he was a brat. If you can't get hold of him without fear if being bitten have you got a slip lead you could get over his head so you don't have to touch him? Either that or leave a lead on him.

Glad you have a trainer involved. When I first got Harley I went to a trainer who had the view of dominating dogs to earn respect. After a while we took up agility at a club which uses positive training and I have had much better results and a much happier dog and me!
 
Jools2345 said:
is he not then just controlling where you are by getting you to leave his space

i would keep a lightweight long line on him, then you can remove him from the room with no anger/frustration/fear or risk.

my experience of dalmations is fairly limited, they are i am not keen on as all barring one that i have known have approached/reached maturity and become dominant and if not handled properly this becomes aggressive dominance. i think the levels of excersise needed for this breed are dramatically under estimated
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I guess it depends on the dog- removing myself/company from my dog is the worst thing in the world, so it did not matter if I shut the door to the room he was in, or removed him. It just means everything stops, no contact, no praise, no games, no nothing. Wait for calm- re open door.
 
I don't remove from the room when I do time out. I take hold of him and tell him to lay down in a certain place. Then I don't speak or look at him. If he gets up I simply put him back on that spot. I kept on doing this and he soon caught on.
 
If a dog bites me I react immediately and violently. They don't do it again and seconds later the normal friendly relationship and mutual respect will be resumed.

I am really staggered by some of the replies on here, but there is nothing new in that!

When you have had the opportunity to observe a number of dogs living together in a social group (i.e. pack of hounds, dog kennelled together, etc) you quickly come to realise how important the hierarchy is within the pack. Anyone stepping out of line is INSTANTLY put in their place. That often won't be noticed by a casual observer as the signals are often very subtle.

After that is done, it is highly likely that the immediate aggression will not need to be repeated. A flick of an ear, a slightly raised lip, more seriously a low growl.... That instant reaction is immediately followed by a resumption of the normal calm status quo. Someone steps out of line, gets the predictable instant reaction, and now we can all go back to normal. The offender will often show signs of relief and even joy at being put in it's place. That is how dogs deal with it. Next time the offender will pay attention to the warning. Finish. End of.

It is no wonder to me that we have some many people getting bitten and children mauled. It is not the physical pain of a blow (dogs are tough) but the shock value of an INSTANT reaction. Of course, if you have two dogs of equal social status doing this, you might have a fight, but it should never get to that situation between the owner and a dog.

For goodness sake stop treating them like children and give them the respect and dignity of being dogs. I always say training (any animal) is a matter of explaining to them what is wanted in terms they can understand. Putting them on the naughty step isn't going to do it. Dogs don't think like that.

<exasperated sigh>
 
People have just told you that "putting the dog on the naughty step" or time out WORKS, so dogs DO obviously respond to, and understand that........... jeez
 
Dry Rot said:
If a dog bites me I react immediately and violently. They don't do it again and seconds later the normal friendly relationship and mutual respect will be resumed.

I am really staggered by some of the replies on here, but there is nothing new in that!

When you have had the opportunity to observe a number of dogs living together in a social group (i.e. pack of hounds, dog kennelled together, etc) you quickly come to realise how important the hierarchy is within the pack. Anyone stepping out of line is INSTANTLY put in their place. That often won't be noticed by a casual observer as the signals are often very subtle.

After that is done, it is highly likely that the immediate aggression will not need to be repeated. A flick of an ear, a slightly raised lip, more seriously a low growl.... That instant reaction is immediately followed by a resumption of the normal calm status quo. Someone steps out of line, gets the predictable instant reaction, and now we can all go back to normal. The offender will often show signs of relief and even joy at being put in it's place. That is how dogs deal with it. Next time the offender will pay attention to the warning. Finish. End of.

It is no wonder to me that we have some many people getting bitten and children mauled. It is not the physical pain of a blow (dogs are tough) but the shock value of an INSTANT reaction. Of course, if you have two dogs of equal social status doing this, you might have a fight, but it should never get to that situation between the owner and a dog.

For goodness sake stop treating them like children and give them the respect and dignity of being dogs. I always say training (any animal) is a matter of explaining to them what is wanted in terms they can understand. Putting them on the naughty step isn't going to do it. Dogs don't think like that.

<exasperated sigh>
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How is hitting a dog giving it dignity and respect ? Positive reward based traiining is based on teaching them what we would like them to do in a way that they understand, based on how dogs learn. My dogs are not treated like children, they have rules and boundaries that they understand and respect. If a dog is not trained to know what you expect of them, how can they get it right ?

I went to a talk by David Ryan last weekend, he is an ex police dog handler, well known for his books on predatory chasing in dogs. The whole day he talked about training dogs in a way they understand and went on to say how much better the police dogs responded to that form of traning rather than using adversive methods. He also talked about how we must take into account breed traits, if a dog is bred to run and you dont give it enough exercise, it will seek an outlet for that frustration in another way ( chewing, stealing things etc).

You have to look at the bigger picture, not just wallop the dog each time it does not do something that YOU think is wrong.
 
lexiedhb said:
People have just told you that "putting the dog on the naughty step" or time out WORKS, so dogs DO obviously respond to, and understand that........... jeez
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An overly complicated way of re-establishing the social hierarchy. I really couldn't be bothered and would hope I have a better rapport with any dog I owned.
 
The OP simply has the wrong dog. Dalmations are not for everyone - and I would advocate looking to re-home it at the earliest opportunity before things go from bad to worse.

Despite Dear Alec's objection, I would be contacting Cayla to see if there's anything she can do to help you.
 
Wow, ALOT of contrasting advice!

Here's my view anyway.

Presumably, as AmyMay has said, you probably did get the wrong dog. People assume dals are for everyone, they're not! It sounds as though he got away with alot of a puppy, and now he is bigger, stronger and has the mentality of a teenager you have even more to contend with.

Regardless, it doesn't mean you can't work with it.

Your dog is snapping at you because something has happened when you've gone to grab him that isn't nice to him - it could be a reprimand/man-handling/whatever. You backing off has just reinforced his behaviour, so he's now learning that a snap will get you to go away.
How do you change it? Firstly, I wouldn't be hitting the dog. If you reprimand a snap, what's the next behaviour in line? It's a bite. Your dog is telling you it's unhappy about something. Giving it a whack around the face isn't going to teach him that your hands reaching down to him is okay, is it? Please don't do this. It's all very well people sitting on a forum dishing out such advice, but physical correction needs to be sharp and accurate if it to be in any way effective - but my physical strength VS a dogs teeth isn't a battle I choose to get involved with.

Someone suggest a long line - I think this would be a good idea for you. It means that you can move/get to your dog without reaching down for its collar which it now obvs has issues with. It is also good for the time-outs, when he starts getting wound-up, pick up the line - walk him away and shut him out. NO eye/verbal/physical contact. He may chew/piss around on the end of the line but this can just be ignored.

Also think he might need stuff to do. Just because he is at the yard all day doesn't mean it's constant exercise, and I can imagine all his annoying behaviours that you think he has are, to him, great fun because he's managed to occupy himself.... and then gets a load of attention from everyone (even if it is negative)!

I hope it goes well with the trainer!
 
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