10 Weeks in! - Hoof Pics

[HufflyPuffly]

So it's been 10 whole weeks, (where is this year going ), since shoes came off mid January. She went quite footsore around the 6-8 week mark, which looking back may have been trigger by when she was trimmed. However *touching-all-available-wood-and-may-carry-a-stick-with-me-at-all-times-to-keep-the-wood-luck-vibes-topped-up* she seems to be turning the ouchie corner!

We had a slight mis-hap good Friday , went for a hack in our new Easyboot Epics came home minus an Easyboot Epic . Both boots came off and only one could be found, we will go back and see if we can find the other one! However this led to an interesting point about how to get her home along the roads and tracks... So deciding that level and bare would probably be better than wonky and having only one comfotable foot, we set off back with me on foot.

Well the little old nuisance of an old lady show pony was fine, (didn't try to drag me about, jog and generally be a pest at all ), so much so I got back on and rode her home on the roads with no shoes on and everything . Got off for our rubbish stoney lane, but I was mega impressed at how she was for her first time bare on more than very soft surfaces! Now not really the way I wanted to do it, with building up slowly in-hand etc, but shows we are heading the right way and I've not broken her!

She is also tolerating our stoney yard much better too, so our summer is looking up. I've gone back to my Equine Fusion Boots, but padded them out with sheepskin so I'm hoping these will do for the moment.

Hoof pictures:
Near fore:

Inside of near fore, that heel is doing all sorts of weird things lol

Still think I'm not imagining it and she's getting straighter!

Whiteline is looking a little dodge again so thrush treatment has started again

Off side:

Frog still isn't quite as happy looking on this one I don't think.

Happy happy with her progress , going to take her in the school and see how she feels, keeping everything crossed she feels sounder, though as long as she's comfy out hacking then that will be good enough at her time of life .

 

[stencilface]

Wow, look at the angle change of the new growth! The heels looks good too, although you can see they still need some work to get bigger.

Glad to hear she's sounder too, maybe you can get away with only using the boots on rough ground now and try some hacks without boots on just the smooth stuff?

 

[HufflyPuffly]

I know, I'm stunned by the new angle all I did was take her shoes off! But it seems to be the correct angle to follow the angle of her pasterns so I think she will feel so much better once it's grown all the way down.

Her poor little heels and frogs were so contracted before that this looks 100% better, but I agree I think there is much more room for imrovement. Her near fore was her poorly leg and seems to have improved much quicker than her off side, I'm not really sure why this has happened, it is her slightly bigger hoof so maybe it gets more stimulation? But I would like her off side to catch up a bit .

Yes I super impressed with her, as with her Cushings I wasn't sure she would ever not be footsore on stones, but I'm beginning to see light at the end of the tunnel! Our set up is rubbish for transitioning which is why I've been tardy about getting her out without boots, as to get anywhere its horrible sharp stony lanes, and even the first bit of tarmac is very bitty , but I'm hoping I can pull my finger out a bit more with the lighter nights and get her moving on more varied terrain sans boots. Too few hours in the day!

How's Norman getting on?

 

[HashRouge]

Those angle changes are quite exciting

 

[ycbm]

That is one of the biggest angle changes I have ever seen. I know you won't need telling this, but those toes could lever at her feet. I've had it happen on one. He went for a hooley because he felt so well. The next day, he had a bleed at the angle change and he was lame for, if I remember right, two or three days. It isn't a disaster, so if it happens, don't panic.

Your photos are a stunning example of why barefoot rehabs are so brilliant - those changes simply aren't achievable in shoes. Well done!

 

[stencilface]

Norman is good, took him for my first hack in 9 months on Monday - it was nice and windy!

I need to keep a close eye on his landing though, and must video him every month to see if anything start to change for the better/worse.

 

[HufflyPuffly]

Those angle changes are quite exciting

I know I'm so glad I took pictures as it's quite amazing!

That is one of the biggest angle changes I have ever seen. I know you won't need telling this, but those toes could lever at her feet. I've had it happen on one. He went for a hooley because he felt so well. The next day, he had a bleed at the angle change and he was lame for, if I remember right, two or three days. It isn't a disaster, so if it happens, don't panic.

Your photos are a stunning example of why barefoot rehabs are so brilliant - those changes simply aren't achievable in shoes. Well done!

Oh thank you, you've clearly read my posts and know I would be very panicky at that occuring , if that does happen do you keep in for a couple of days so the foot can rest or can they still be turned out? So pleased I put my foot down and said 'shoes off', though it makes me sad that I didn't do it sooner and inflicted heart bar wedges on her for the best part of 6 months . 10 years she's given me her all, so hopefully now is the time I can make things right again!

Plus we're landing heel first and much more level too, we had a bit of time landing outisde edge first so I'm hoping level and heels first will stay!

Norman is good, took him for my first hack in 9 months on Monday - it was nice and windy!

I need to keep a close eye on his landing though, and must video him every month to see if anything start to change for the better/worse.

brilliant news, if you're anything like me you will watch obsessively for any changes! Fingers crossed he continues to be heel first and sound .

 

[ycbm]

Great news Stencilface

Alex if it happens I would keep her out, the damage is already done and the pain it caused will stop her overdoing things until it grows down a bit. It's just one line of torn laminae a millimetre thick, it won't cause her feet to drop off It probably won't happen,, but it's more likely in a Cushings horse with weak feet, as mine was too (well, IR, but same foot issues).

Please don't beat yourself up, you're doing great. All you did was believe the people you paid to advise you. It's their problem they didn't know enough, not yours. You're on the right track now all right!!

 

[ester]

Lol, ever reassuring us 'her feet won't drop off '

thanks for the pics

 

[HufflyPuffly]

Great news Stencilface

Alex if it happens I would keep her out, the damage is already done and the pain it caused will stop her overdoing things until it grows down a bit. It's just one line of torn laminae a millimetre thick, it won't cause her feet to drop off It probably won't happen,, but it's more likely in a Cushings horse with weak feet, as mine was too (well, IR, but same foot issues).

Please don't beat yourself up, you're doing great. All you did was believe the people you paid to advise you. It's their problem they didn't know enough, not yours. You're on the right track now all right!!

Ok she is quite the drama queen so good to know it really wouldn't be too much of an issue, she is however daft as a brush and has at no point ever been able to take things easy to aid healing of anything . Will watch with interest to see what happens!

I'm still sad about it, even more so when my farrier saw the changes and was still not excitied or more positive. I thought he would change his tune a little bit more, but the proof of the pudding will be when her hoof capsual has completely grown out and she's sound , see I can be optimistic .

Lol, ever reassuring us 'her feet won't drop off '

thanks for the pics

I need that reassurance , her feet may yet drop off! I decided against another more risqué thread title , but glad you liked the pics.

 

[ycbm]

I remember being so scared with my first two. I used to dream that their feet fell off!

The latest friend I have helped had a PTS/retire option put to her last October. The horse did the closing hunt of the season last week.. Her farrier was out. She's known him thirty years. He did not come near her and would not speak to her. Neither will her vet discuss how she has managed to do what they told her could not be done. It makes me despair when the professionals being paid to advise people are so closed minded.

 

[sbloom]

Is it possible to do an extreme toe roll to stop any leverage issues as that toe grows out (asking barefoot experts, I'm not one, just an enthusiast!)?

 

[ycbm]

Is it possible to do an extreme toe roll to stop any leverage issues as that toe grows out (asking barefoot experts, I'm not one, just an enthusiast!)?

An extreme roll would reduce the bearing area of the foot and this horse has Cushings and probably needs the lowest lb/square inch it can get. It's a balance between that and the leverage.
I'd need to be there and feel how soft the foot was to make that choice. In the one I had, I could bend the foot with my fingers, and no amount of toe reduction would have changed things.

Unlike some of the scare stories I've read, I have never come across a situation where the toe levers the horn off the foot. But a temporary crease at the angle change is a risk, albeit very small. I just wanted to warn Alex not to faint if it happened

 

[ester]

Is it possible to do an extreme toe roll to stop any leverage issues as that toe grows out (asking barefoot experts, I'm not one, just an enthusiast!)?

I think usually it isn't advised/you'd have to take quite a lot off to really make a difference and it means that the horse has to take more force through the back of the hoof before it is really ready/has built up enough at the back. Also the white line actually looks quite tight at the toe so the connection is perhaps stronger than we think. Also it will only be the old growth effected, that nice new stuff will be fine

Her feet remind me of prince at rockley (welshie, also ppid I think) and Nics comments similar http://rockleyfarm.blogspot.co.uk/search?q=+prince

 

[HufflyPuffly]

I remember being so scared with my first two. I used to dream that their feet fell off!

The latest friend I have helped had a PTS/retire option put to her last October. The horse did the closing hunt of the season last week.. Her farrier was out. She's known him thirty years. He did not come near her and would not speak to her. Neither will her vet discuss how she has managed to do what they told her could not be done. It makes me despair when the professionals being paid to advise people are so closed minded.

I've not managed to have that dream yet, but it was a tough couple of weeks when she went more footsore than previously.

How sad for your friend , I just don't understand why people aren't more open about new things or a different way of doing things?

Is it possible to do an extreme toe roll to stop any leverage issues as that toe grows out (asking barefoot experts, I'm not one, just an enthusiast!)?

An extreme roll would reduce the bearing area of the foot and this horse has Cushings and probably needs the lowest lb/square inch it can get. It's a balance between that and the leverage.
I'd need to be there and feel how soft the foot was to make that choice. In the one I had, I could bend the foot with my fingers, and no amount of toe reduction would have changed things.

Unlike some of the scare stories I've read, I have never come across a situation where the toe levers the horn off the foot. But a temporary crease at the angle change is a risk, albeit very small. I just wanted to warn Alex not to faint if it happened

Her feet are quite tough and solid to be honest, whereabouts could you bend their foot? You can squish her heels together a bit but her sole seems strong? A little bit at the thought of it levering the horn off but glad you're here to reassure me lol.

I think usually it isn't advised/you'd have to take quite a lot off to really make a difference and it means that the horse has to take more force through the back of the hoof before it is really ready/has built up enough at the back. Also the white line actually looks quite tight at the toe so the connection is perhaps stronger than we think. Also it will only be the old growth effected, that nice new stuff will be fine

Her feet remind me of prince at rockley (welshie, also ppid I think) and Nics comments similar http://rockleyfarm.blogspot.co.uk/search?q=+prince

Wow she is so much like Prince, though they win on how much growth they've managed to grow in in 8 weeks!

Her whiteline looks good near the toe, it's only really at the back where it gets stretched and bitty.


Thanks everyone .

 

[ycbm]

I could bend his toes! He was due to be pts the day after he was delivered to me, he was a bad case Been sound for five years now

I don't think you will have any problems.

The faster growth on horses at Rockley is a result of their absolutely prefect environment. Hundreds of metres of shale tracks, pea gravel standing, multiple feeding points, constant movement. At the moment, no other place can match their facilities.

 

[HufflyPuffly]

Oh wow poor horse, Doodle's are definitely not that bad!

Haha yes I did think that it would be due to their perfect conditions, though Doodle's progress shows what us normal people can do with what we've got .

 

[stencilface]

I don't think I would have got as far without Rockley, seeing as I managed to break my horse even though he was barefoot! I am also not sure how much walking Norman did at Rockley, once he finds a food source, he doesn't move

He's out in the day at the moment around our yard so has a 70m of a road scalpings track, smooth concrete, soft old wood chippings areas - very squidgey, some grass (can't help it, but it will all be gone soon enough, and its pretty poor) and a rubber matted stable with some straw (leftover from winter stabling, it won't be replaced when its gone). At night he's turned out in a wet paddock, but it does have a concrete area where I put hay. I'll be taking him out in hand tomorrow morning with my dog for a walk, could be fun!

 

[Andalucian]

That's a pretty dramatic change in direction, how rewarding is that? Well done for being so brave.

 

[HufflyPuffly]

Norman has the right idea , Doodle would be fine with staying with food as long as all the other horses stay with her, she doesn't do being on her own .

Do you know what caused his issues? We've never really got to the bottom of all of Doodle's, the barefoot rehab is really just to try and make her more comfortable, but she had all the classic signs of Navicular, (combined with Cushings and an injury from last year).

Sounds like you have a nice amount of varied surfaces, ours just have grassy field (only a few horses left mean even the winter field has grass in it!) or the stable to spend their time in. Added with a very stony yard has made it a little more difficult but she's coping well .

Doodle is great at in-hand walks as long as she gets to sample the verges , she's a naughty old sausage!

 

[HufflyPuffly]

That's a pretty dramatic change in direction, how rewarding is that? Well done for being so brave.

Yeah her feet look pretty odd at the moment, and I guess will do for a while until it all grows out! Thanks, I've had many a wobble especially as the only people who agreed with me were strangers from the internet, hardly the advise you're 'suppose' to take is it!

This the time is coming to update my vet, I'm not sure what to expect from him but I'm hoping he will be a little more interested than my farrier.

 

[ester]

Oh wow poor horse, Doodle's are definitely not that bad!

Haha yes I did think that it would be due to their perfect conditions, though Doodle's progress shows what us normal people can do with what we've got .

I really don't think she is that far behind

 

[HufflyPuffly]

I really don't think she is that far behind

I hope so, she's been through so much recently I hope this can be the start of some good luck and fun times again .

 

[Andalucian]

This the time is coming to update my vet, I'm not sure what to expect from him but I'm hoping he will be a little more interested than my farrier.

It depends on the vet's mindset. Remember your choice means they can't earn anything through treating the foot pain issue, so their enthusiasm might not be quite as loud as all of us. I've got used to it now after 11 years in barefoot care, I no longer need their approval, although I remember a time when I thought I did

 

[HufflyPuffly]

It depends on the vet's mindset. Remember your choice means they can't earn anything through treating the foot pain issue, so their enthusiasm might not be quite as loud as all of us. I've got used to it now after 11 years in barefoot care, I no longer need their approval, although I remember a time when I thought I did

He generally seems open to new things, (he caught her Cushings when he could have carried on with another vets diagnosis) so I'm hoping he will be interested. He's also been great about trying cheaper options since the insurance resolutely refused to pay out for the injury last year, so hopefully wont feel led by his bank balance. Though as I've spent the best part of £1500 in the last year he's had his fair share , not that this was to treat feet issues,(the investigation and treatment for her injury last year and then the excess for her ulcer treatment).

But I shall remain un-deterred even if his reaction is the same as the farriers .

 

[ester]

I used to say to mine, just so you know it's still working and if visiting for other stuff I'd just point at his feet and how good they looked

 

[FfionWinnie]

That is one of the biggest angle changes I have ever seen.

Your photos are a stunning example of why barefoot rehabs are so brilliant - those changes simply aren't achievable in shoes. Well done!

My thoughts exactly. The old angles are appalling. The new angle and foot is going to be amazing.

Brilliant photos. Keep taking them!

 

[Boulty]

Very exciting angle change there. Toe is going to be a LOT shorter when that reaches the ground. Her feet are probably going to start looking very odd indeed over the next few months as that angle change grows down. Mine had an equally ridiculous change of angle when shoes came off and if I remember rightly it took about 9 months to fully grow out. Interestingly he did something similar to what ycbm describes shortly after return from Rockley in that he spent the night charging about on rock-hard mud with his buddies and spent the next 2 weeks on boxrest as it took that long to sort him a paddock where he couldn't do that! No further episodes after that one incident though.

Edited to add that Prince is mine and he is indeed PPID as Ester said (recent diagnosis but I'm suspicious that it may have been causing him issues for some time). He went hunting (well ok hound exercise cos we had no Quarry that day) last month and we provisionally appear to be in the top 10 of the TREC GB winter league in the Intermediate class but need to wait til all the latest results are up to see if anyone's knocked me down the list and has recently been channelling the spirit of Tigger on our explorations around the roads and bridleways of Leeds and Wakefield!

 

[HufflyPuffly]

I used to say to mine, just so you know it's still working and if visiting for other stuff I'd just point at his feet and how good they looked

I hope we can get to this point! At the very least she will have some healthier feet at the end of it .

My thoughts exactly. The old angles are appalling. The new angle and foot is going to be amazing.

Brilliant photos. Keep taking them!

It's funny you really cannot tell just how bad her old hoof was or the mega change until you get on the ground! Don't worry lots more photos to come I think.

Very exciting angle change there. Toe is going to be a LOT shorter when that reaches the ground. Her feet are probably going to start looking very odd indeed over the next few months as that angle change grows down. Mine had an equally ridiculous change of angle when shoes came off and if I remember rightly it took about 9 months to fully grow out. Interestingly he did something similar to what ycbm describes shortly after return from Rockley in that he spent the night charging about on rock-hard mud with his buddies and spent the next 2 weeks on boxrest as it took that long to sort him a paddock where he couldn't do that! No further episodes after that one incident though.

Edited to add that Prince is mine and he is indeed PPID as Ester said (recent diagnosis but I'm suspicious that it may have been causing him issues for some time). He went hunting (well ok hound exercise cos we had no Quarry that day) last month and we provisionally appear to be in the top 10 of the TREC GB winter league in the Intermediate class but need to wait til all the latest results are up to see if anyone's knocked me down the list and has recently been channelling the spirit of Tigger on our explorations around the roads and bridleways of Leeds and Wakefield!

I'm hoping so, it will make fitting boots much easier once that tow shortens up, we started out with a 2cm difference between the length and width! I'm working on 9-12 months for the hoof to grow all the way down, but happy with current progress.

No way is Prince yours , their feet look very similar! Our fields are generally fairly soft so I'm hoping we can avoid her doing herself a mischief, but glad I've been forewarned and know what to expect. If we can get to the stage you and Prince are at I will be very happy, can I ask how old he is? Has it been ok keeping up with the work Rockley did?

x x

 

[stencilface]

Yeah her feet look pretty odd at the moment, and I guess will do for a while until it all grows out! Thanks, I've had many a wobble especially as the only people who agreed with me were strangers from the internet, hardly the advise you're 'suppose' to take is it!

This the time is coming to update my vet, I'm not sure what to expect from him but I'm hoping he will be a little more interested than my farrier.

It really is the only place to find support for bf stuff, you have to rely on the crazy people on the internet for support. Most people just don't have a clue what you're on about and it can get very annoying. I find explaining it to science/engineering minded people much easier as the whole load bearing surface, adaptive asymmetry thing makes sense to them.

To horsey people you may as well get out your crystals as most just cannot see past not nailing metal to their feet. Watching norman have his last shoes on with wedges, and watching his reaction to the nails going in (not extreme, but their feet do react when a nail is whacked in!) I thought I was going to cry

I did a 30 min in hand walk this morning, norman is sooo lazy (I can imagine Nic swearing at him as she tried to lead him off another horse ) but I am going to get fit as we have to walk up a super steep hill to get to the best/safest place to walk.