11 Year Old Maiden Mare - AI or Live Cover?

vonno

vonno

Well-Known Member
Joined
9 July 2007
Messages
185
Location
SE Wales
www.celticqh.com
Hi,
Am considering breeding my 11 year old mare this year. As she is a maiden, and due to her age, wondered what other people's thoughts were as to whether live cover would be preferable to AI. And if AI, frozen or chilled. (Obviously more choice with chilled semen, and even more with frozen, but costs increase, which is ok as long as she conceives without too much of a problem)
 
I don't think you will find many studs offer a natural covering these days. You might find your choice of stallion severely reduced if you really want that service (excuse the pun).
 
What breed is your mare? Not many stallion owners offer live cover these days so unless your mare is TB or you are going for a native pony-type, Id be surprised if you can find many WB studs offering this. AI is the way most people are going. I prefer to use fresh semen over frozen.
 
I used frozen on my maiden mare (shes only 6 tho) last year and she took first time. If you get a good repo to check her first, then as long as the semen quality is good it shouldnt be a problem.
 
Thanks. She's a Quarter Horse. There are a few offering live cover, of which I would only consider 2, and also only a limited number of those I would use offering chilled semen.
With frozen, there's a huge choice but I've heard the conception rate is lower. (I have another mare which has previously bred, so will probably use frozen on her)
 
Fresh or chilled AI would certainly be the most suitable breeding method for a mare who is maiden and on the borderline of the "older" category. Close management, optimal semen infusion (rather than a whole ejaculate and the nasties that can potentially come with it), less stress for the mare (sudden sexual exposure in a live cover situation is actually very stressful for the majority of maidens), plus the added safety benefits... Just make sure your vet/AI centre is experienced, and preferable that hey come recommended by friends or users of the forum.
 
Thank you for your replies. I will look more into the fresh/chilled option first. There is a good repro vet locally, so will speak to him as well.
AndyPandy, just read your other post re 'Mare not in Foal', which was really useful.
 
hi,
i had my maiden mare covered naturally at 11yrs old. if anything i think she rather enjoyed herself!
blush.gif

i had a good repo vet, but chose to go down the natural root as i knew the stallion, who is exceptionally laid back & patient with all his mares. And knew the owner (bought a youngster from her a few years back), so i felt that my mare wouldnt be pushed/uncomforable.
sadly shes selling her stallion & giving up, otherwise my mare would definately have been heading back there!
 
You might want to contact Dyffryn Tywi equine vets. They are on the BEVA list (approved AI centre) & do a good all-in price for AI. The partners are always happy to have a chat & give advice. They are doing an information evening next month about breeding www.walesequinevets.com
 
[ QUOTE ]
Fresh or chilled AI would certainly be the most suitable breeding method for a mare who is maiden and on the borderline of the "older" category. Close management, optimal semen infusion (rather than a whole ejaculate and the nasties that can potentially come with it), less stress for the mare (sudden sexual exposure in a live cover situation is actually very stressful for the majority of maidens), plus the added safety benefits...

[/ QUOTE ]

Natural cover can be JUST as successful with older maidens IF enough attention is paid to combat the risk of fluid retention. We tease mares thoroughly the day after covering, and then give Oxytocin as soon as they're seen to be on the way out - and get very good results with this type of mare. And I've never seen one 'stressed' - as long as they're thoroughly teased prior to covering and the stallion is well-mannered.

There are plenty of good reasons to choose AI - but I've seen more mares get severely stressed at being in the stocks for scanning/AI etc than I have mares stressed by the stallion.
grin.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
JG, you and I will always have to agree to disagree on the AI vs natural cover thing, but I take your point...
smile.gif
laugh.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

Don't get me wrong - I'm not anti AI. I've used it on a number of my mares each year - and apart from one who kept popping follicles ahead of the semen arriving - have had good results. But with the exception of one mare - out of 15 of my own put in foal this year - the vet costs per pregnancy were FAR lower for natural cover!
grin.gif
 
IMO I prefer natural coverings, (but as I breed TB's and have worked on TB studs it is more what I am used to!)

I would also mention considering whether you are only going to have this one foal or if she is going to be covered the following year as well. If she is only goigt o have this one foal then either would be ok but we had a maiden 14yo hunter and she was AI'd, took after 3 cycles and that was fine. BUT the following year,with a foal at foot, our choice of stallion was natural cover only (TB) and she tried to KILLLL! Her first experience of a stallion and she had the same fears of any maiden, but she also had her baby with her. She is a very bossy mare anyway but she was dangerous. We missed that year and sent her with no foal the following year to another stallion. They attempted to natural cover her, but the reaction was the same and it was AI again. She has never been natural covered and that has impacted on who we send her to.

So personally I would never AI a maiden. I have seen plenty of maiden mares covered and I wouldn't say the stress is terrible. No more than learning anything else scary, like loading etc. On TB studs they use a 'jumper' for maidens, a small pony that can leap all over them (under control of course!) and get them used to that and as he is smaller than them it is not so scary.
 
Sorry guys Natural is best! I have a TB mare thats 10 this time and a maiden and she is going to be covered by Spyder. I have advertised him as mainly Natural and I may just stick to that this year. He has several mares of all ages coming and they only asked for natural.

So yes some stallion owners do still do Natural only. But their are many reasons for and against.
 
We only do Natural cover with both our boys and never had a mare stressed.
As JanetGeorge said if done correctly its much better fluid is a problem with older girls with either AI or natural, and its cheaper natural for the mare owners, and it called natural for a reason the mares know they had sex and they are different to be handled after a few days when they know they are in foal and the stallion knows at around nine to ten days they become settled and very warm happyiness to them.
Hands up all virgins (women who would like AI in stead of love making!)
My OH said iam synical because I had said vets have a vested interest in AI.
No disrespect to vets but horse have been for 50 million years and vets only a couple of houndred.
who would survive without who.
 
Hands up all virgins (women who would like AI in stead of love making!)

Tell that to my mare, I wasted a lot of money trying natural. If you go natural just make sure the stallion owner is not using your maiden mare as his first!!! I am not new to breeding & it never occured to me that the agent would try to cover a maiden with an inexperenced stallion. He had never covered before & now my mare wont stand for any stallion, so AI is the only option. Needless to say the agent is no longer in business selling or standing horses!
mad.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
Hands up all virgins (women who would like AI in stead of love making!)

Tell that to my mare, I wasted a lot of money trying natural. If you go natural just make sure the stallion owner is not using your maiden mare as his first!!! I am not new to breeding & it never occured to me that the agent would try to cover a maiden with an inexperenced stallion. He had never covered before & now my mare wont stand for any stallion, so AI is the only option. Needless to say the agent is no longer in business selling or standing horses!
mad.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

Well you said it but i have trained several stallions that have been used for AI and natural cover and have on occasion used a maiden mare for a boys first go.
Would have been owned by either ourselves or a friend and have never had any bother at all.
Its about manners and how you handle the stallion to do the job.
My black stallions first mare was a 3 year old maiden TB ,the job was done with the minimum of fuss and she got in foal off of that one and only cover.
To be honest the worst mares we have had all came from one particular stud who still tie mares down and basically rape them every day and some of these mares we have AI'd to save them the stress.
But often i have found with maiden mares if they are ready they are fine.
Stallions if taught correctly are polite and shouldnt jump all over mares biting.
 
Ok, thanks everyone. I've now disregarded frozen, so am down to a choice of 3 stallions which are all at reputable studs. I prefer the bloodlines of 2 which only offer fresh or chilled semen, so I will probably go with one of those and take her to the stud. The mare has travelled and competed a fair bit, so going away should not stress her out.
Jamana, I have not decided yet whether to rebreed her the following year. I have a couple of youngsters to start this year and hope to be showing them over the next few years. However, if that doesn't go as planned, she might only get one year off and will come back into work.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top