16hh laminitis pedal bone rotation - told horses dont recover HELP!

T

Tashza

Member
Joined
1 June 2010
Messages
23
Visit site
My 16hh mare around 18yrs old suddenly took laminitis 2 weeks ago. The first week she appeared to recover, however slowed down and the latest visit resulted in x-rays which I just got a call about (and once the tears subsided enough, determination has set in! I love her more than life and want to give her every chance even without the backup of insurance).

However it must be pointed out from the start that this affects ALL 4 feet ....
as for the rotation degree, I have no idea as yet, appointment to see the x-rays in just over an hour and awaiting glasgow vet schools comments. I will be asking them to contact the laminitis clinic for their input also - thinking being, they are the experts. It must be noted there is only one vet practise where I live and they have real equine specialist that is not to say my vet (of choice from the practise) is not doing her best.

The first item that came up was the imprint shoes that I have seen several people already mention and gives me hope, also the comments about vets saying PTS as this has been hinted at.

My girl is already barefoot and has been for a good few years but unfortunately we have no barefoot trimmers near so have only managed to get a trainee once and until a new farrier came into the area I didnt like the way the few that service this area could (and have) picked up and dropped people at will, however blunt he may be he's upfront what he offers and what he expects in return though I have not spoken to him about this as yet (think he is on holiday right now).

I will check out the links offered in earlier posts and ask for any referals or contact from people who cover or live in the dumfries and galloway region especially if they have dealt with or experienced pedal rotation and treated with success to allow me to tap into their knowledge or contacts who can help me. Please feel free to pm if you prefer.

The last 2 weeks treatment has been:-

deep shavings (thankfully am deep litter which meant bed was there)
I will raise the issue of imprint shoes at the appointment.
Frog supports
ACP 25mg one 3 times daily - unfortunately I'm using carrot to get this in her any better ideas very much appreciated
Bute 1.5g twice a day (danilon equidos 15%)

Using soaked haylage as she has a COPD and when at vet school a few years ago she managed to grab a mouthful before we left for the journey and windpipe was bad with muscus/froth (endiscope for tumour in head/airway) some 10 hrs later (broke down on way) and were advised in no uncertain terms to not to feed hay though have sourced a small bale of good quality hay to soak and try but not holding much hope in this case. I found out after the consultation about the mouthful of hay.

I also would like to thank everyone for taking the time to read this and any advice they offer.


Questions
~~~~~~

Can anyone can advise when too soon is to put imprints on?

Any alternatives to hay or haylage (please note the haylage is grown on the farm where kept and goes to seed before cutting)

another thread mentions essentials and one in particular that jumps out is the Magnesium Oxide as I was speaking to a friend who when I advised about my mare had mentioned someone she knew who had sworn Magnesium something had made all the difference - I will be phoning her and hopefully get my number passed on to this person (both are miles away) but in the meantime if anyone expand on this

I hope I make sense as my brain is still reeling right now and should be asking a lot more questions

I apologies for the length of the post, I am still in shock at my never sick or sorry made of steel girl having laminitis let alone now rotation. Unfortunate series of events (2 minor injuries and out of formula 4 feet for 2 months as well as the weather we've had that all together tipped her over the edge, other horses in same field and next are fine and barr one, were not doing as much work as she was) maybe I'm looking for a reason and there is none .....

Sincere and greatful thanks in advance
 
Make sure all the sugar is out of her diet. Lucy Priory is the person to listen to on here.

One of ours had the same as yours and is ok now. Don't listen to anyone who says PTS, our vet said your on your own when we went down the Jackson/Ramey route.

There is tons on the internet re bare foot recovery, you need to get reading.
 
Not quite the same as your girl, but in 2006 my big 16.3 ID mare (over 700kg) had a terrible abcess in one fore foot. After days of vet, farrier and poultice at home, still it had not come out. She finally went in to the surgery where they cut away a massive portion of her hoof at the front it no longer even resembled a hoof. I was horrified! the abcess was very deep. However, x rays showed a very large rotation in that foot. I can't remember the degree involved, but VERY clearly visable on xray. Her sole had dropped and was like the underside of a saucer. She was crippled. Vet was not encouraging. Mare came home after a week in hospital. My farrier fitted shoes (somehow) with the plastic pads and built in frog supports (they were not expensive) and some sort of paste stuff in between (sorry can't remember what it was but it was expensive) She had very limited turnout for 2 months just a tiny patch in my garden so she couldn't get in to trot. She wore the pads for a year at every shoeing the sole looked better until finally it looks flat and normal (she does have flat feet) I have not had anymore x rays done so don't know what the pedal bone looks like now but she is sound and has been for years . I keep her as lean as possible about 650kg. She is now however, at 19 only a light hack i would never gallop or jump her again, She had a foal in 2009. Her hoof looks good apart from a crack down the centre that will never go away. Good luck with your mare. Ohh just to add my girl can not be without shoes, she even finds standing without for farrier visits uncomfortable.
 
Last edited:
Unfortunately following a cortisone injection my 16hh has just got laminitis in all 4 feet was told by vet that ACP was no longer available in 25mg tablets so he has given it to me in paste form (sedalin) to adminster twice daily seems to working well. Using Top Chop lite from Topspec with a few D&H high fibre cubes to get the danilon into him, he is also getting a couple of sections of horsehage high fibre which is suitable for laminitics as he cannot be fed hay. Vet was amazed at the difference in just 24hrs at the moment looks like his pedal bones won't rotate but early days for me..

Good Luck with your girl..
 
Tashza, as well as looking at her diet, ask your vet to run bloods for Cushings and EMS - there is a point in the year when the ACTH (Cushings) reading is unreliable, but i think you'll be ok at the moment (until about the end of June I think).

As she is 18 it maybe a metabolic cause - this isn't necessarily a bad thing (as at least you have an identifiable cause) and there are lots of options for treating them if she does have something!

As others have said, pedal bone rotation doesn't mean the end of the road necessarily - each horse is an individual! I wish you the very best of luck with her xxx
 
Also, what feed is she having?

I now feed my boys totaly organic (Thunderbrook Equine Feed) - one has Cushings and one has EMS, but there are loads of good un-molassed chaff's out there that are suitable! Hi Fi Molasses Free is one of the best I think and you can add non-molassed sugar beet to it to make it tasty!

If i had my time again the first thing i would have given my old boy when he had his Lami attack would be a good liver tonic like GH Restore to help his body get rid of all the toxins that build up
 
My 16.1hh warmblood x was diagnosed with laminitis last March. I caught it early and called the vet and farrier out straight away. That day she had x-rays and frog supprts on, 3 days later my farrier fitted her with Imprint Shoes.

My mare was on box rest for 5months only coming out her stable for x-rays every 3weeks, she was also given sedalin and bute orally twice a day. I also ran the Laminitic Trust, they told me to feed happy hoof and magnesium and to weigh and soak her hay.Those months were like a roller coaster, some weeks she really picked up then she would go right down hill.

There are 4 vets at my practise, one of them really seemed to know his stuff, the other one who came out a few times actually told me to start thinking about putting her down. However, my farrier was great and was always at the end of the phone.

I am now riding her and she is back to full fitness but her management has completely changed. I really wish you and your girl the best.
 
ACP tablets are not licensed for use in horses when there is a licensed product on the market, however a lot of equine veterinary hospitals will probably still use them for ease as we did when inpatients needed them, we just mixed them in feed, they came in very handy when we were fostering orphaned foals on to foster mares.
I use them on my mare as she is a nightmare to syringe into her mouth, you have to twitch her and then watch out for striking forelegs!
My tip to get the acp in her is to put them in the middle of a sugar free polo- perfect fit and horse none the wiser.

I wish you all the best with your mare.
 
Thank you so much for the replies.

I have been heartened to learn of bigger horses standing a chance!

Lily is strong and willful, if she was not I would not put her through anything but she is not a quitter.

I had been leaning towards blood tests, especially thinking along the lines of cushings (a horse a another yard near by just got diagnoised mid-end of last summer i think it was and will speak to her owner again). If i had not got stopped/talking before I got in the house after coming home and seen the post about blood I'd have shot back down and asked my vet to take blood as she was there looking at another horse who had gone lame (not linked/laminitis) sods law.

Lily threw her summer coat as normal so had not considered cushings straight away but never discount anything in this type of situation I have learned.

I'll certainly see about GH Restore, hindsight is a wonderful thing and the comment about if you could start again is exactly the sort of feedback that is crucial thank you :D

The tip about the sugar free polo mint is something I will try tonight as not happy giving a carrot 3 times a day if I can avoid it.

I can confirm it is 25mg tablets. We had considered syringing but she is quite an obstinate girl when she wants to be and dont want to stress her too much so the polo idea is a great idea (friend just popped in and sent with my request for sugar free mints!).

Lily is normally fed Alpha A with a bit of beet juice and a wee bit of beet. She was getting bran to bulk it out and keep her busy but have stopped that.
Haylage when stabled as she has COPD (cant remember the new name)
Generally on formula 4 feet but ran out 2 months ago along with breathe free and garlic.

I have bought Hifi Lite which she ate some of but not sure she is convinced as she never ate all of the wee drop I tried her with but will try again tonight when she gets some to eat her Danilon. I know someone on the yard who normally feeds happy hoof but couldnt get any when she went out which is a bummer as could have borrowed some to see if she preferred that. This is dampened with water and will add breathe free to it (new tub bought this afternoon) but out of garlic and gets part of her F4F ration in it and what ever is left fed as treats.

Re horsehage which colour is suitable for laminitics? Is it the purple?

Re magnesium, heard this mentioned once before somewhere. Can you advise exactly what type etc.

Sorry for being disjointed but brain sucking in information and spewing it out in a different, sometimes disjointed order :confused:

I really do appreciate all the feedback, please keep it coming :p

Oh and have a Shiatsu massage booked for next Friday afternoon (soonest I could get it) which will help her muscles and whether you believe in the meridian lines or not it worth a shot ;)
 
I would be careful feeding Happy hoof to a horse with acute laminitis even though it is approved by the Laminitis Trust. When my horse got laminitis following a steroid injection, he was on total box rest with poor quality hay soaked for 12hrs. I gave him half a scoop of Happy hoof twice a day just so he would eat the bute and ACP. After several weeks no improvement in the laminitis so vet ran blood tests for Cushings/EMS and all negative. He also recommended switching to HiFi Lite and after doing this he improved and thankfully is still with me as a light hack. My vet said he had reservations about Happy hoof being suitable for horses with acute laminitis although fine for horses that are overweight and prone to laminitis. Fingers crossed my boy has been laminitis free for 3 years now. Grass intake carefully managed with bare paddock or muzzle. Now feeding HIfi molasses free as he prefers that to HiFi Lite. Good luck with your mare, mine didn't have any rotation but was in a bad way for best part of year but he did come through it.
 
Yahoo groups 'themetabolichorse' - get on there. Tons and tons of current info. Last thing I read was frog supports are contra-indicated! That was in the latest BHS magazine.

We threw our undiagnosed pony on pergolide as soon as Cushing's was suspected. Can't do that now as pergolide is no longer prescribable for horses, and has recently been replaced by a vastly more expensive drug licensed for this particular problem.

I can't say now whether I'd have to PTS on the purely financial implications of medicating a horse with Prascend. You are only buying time and not all of it quality.

Don't give up til your horse does, if you can afford it. Good luck x
 
I bought hifi lite today and she had a little but did not finish the small amount I gave her to try, I did however manage to get a little happy hoof which I am now doubting.

The person who gave me a few handfuls, uses it for their horse who had bad laminitis with rotation (not sure if both feet affected but one was bad) about 6 years ago but will try the hifi lite again tonight with a little formula 4 feet and danilon and see how she goes.

It was good to speak to someone tonight in person who fought for their horse who was box rested for 5 months and showing me feet, explaining and discussing her case etc.

The leaf of hay I got last night will have soaked 24hrs when I go down (emptied the water out this morning and refilled) so will try her with a bit of this to see how she fairs with her COPD :/

I will join the themetabolichorse yahoo list and read as much as I can ;) but must head off down to my girl right now.
 
Don't really have any advice about the pedal bone rotation but as for the hay/haylage it might be worth thinking of investing in a hay steamer? They're expensive but you can get cheaper bag versions now.. Even feeding haulage isn't really ideal because it can still contain spores as im sure you know! so this could be a good option especially for the winter months in the many years to come! I know with these ones http://www.haygain.co.uk/ you can out them on a timer and they're done in an hour :)

Hope that helps and everything works out well for you both! :)
 
LucyPriory said:
hay steamers are ok for the dust/mould element, but they don't remove sugar which is important for laminitics.
Click to expand...

Yep I know that just thought it might help with the copd? As Opposed to having to feed regular hay that's been soaked for hours? Just thought it'd be worth a shot!
 
Last edited:
yes - I agree re COPD - but with a lami the hay unless tested at 8% or lower should really be soaked (and rinsed afterwards) anyway. I find it makes a huge difference. The difference can be between sound and lame or dead or alive depending on how bad the lami is and how sensitive the horse is and how sugary the hay.
 
UPDATE:

Call from vet advising chased vet school who advise the following:-

Up to them
Cut both hind digital flexor (?) tendons
Cast legs
Cast feet with shoes
14 days stay

This means loading her with painkillers etc to get her there unless we can get another vet that is closer to home by some 30 miles who was previous consultant there to do work.

In touch with a specialist laminitis farrier who I hope to speak to on the phone very soon to see what he advises.

Phoning laminitis clinic to discuss feeding and get email so vet can send x-rays.


Does anyone have any experience/been through cutting of tendons????
 
Unfortunately the specialist laminitis farrier is miles and miles away .... :( but willing to help and advise. With some 400 successful cases under his belt I am hopeful he may have a less drastic alternative.
 
OMG not having had experience of a chronic laminitic I am shocked at the vet school advice but personally would think carefully before putting an 18yr old horse through surgery. This must be really awful for you hope everything works out..
 
as advised previously - read the information on ECIR and if necessary ask Dr Kellon directly. I think you will find that cutting the tendons is based on theories no longer held to be that accurate.
 
Not read all the posts but our girl has had pedal bone rotation from Cushings-induced laminitis and we've been told that with careful trimming and heart bar shoes her bones are coming back to the right position - its been a long, long road but we were told by a few different people that the myth horses can't recover isn't true.
Our farrier has worked hard on her and she has come perfectly sound for the first time in months and months and we are SO pleased.
Frog supports are a very good idea...not so sure about barefoot I'm afraid but it can be recovered :)
K x
 
the horse I mentioned previously had the frog supports etc etc etc and was due to be PTS as advised by vet and farrier. He came sound enough to canter voluntarily in 2 weeks once the shoes came off.
 
Thank you so much for the support and added info.

This cutting of tendons has certainly thrown me through a loop and have been beside myself all day.

I had to gather myself before getting out the car to attend to Lily tonight. But she cheered me with her cheekiness and trying to get head in the feedbin (dont worry no success on her part).

Not sure she is convinced on the Hifi Lite and I know mentioned about Happy Hoof but I got a small handful and put both Danilons in it and she ate it no bother. I was so relieved! While I turned out the other 2 horses after their meals and rugs put on for the night I came back and found her in her stable (rem its a converted byre and the stable run one into other separated by part frame partition and a bar between to separate which is down at the moment) scrapping about in her rack. I went to refresh the bucket of water near the door (i do it at least 3 or 4 times a day to keep busy and stay there etc) and came back in to find her back in the first stable scratching around in the rack there.

That said I am aware 2 danilon morning and night will help a lot and she will have good days and bad but she still has determination and will to go on so taking strength from her when it should be the other way around.

Will be talking to 2 laminitis farriers tomorrow, one which emailed he'd never had to have any tendons cut so bolstered a bit by that for now but by 2am I'll be awake thinking I'm being to optimistic and doubting everything.

Another vet and farrier to talk to on Monday so I hope I will have good news and a better alternative by then and with luck all my pain and distress and chasing every man and his uncle will not only bear fruit but help anyone else in the future. Positive, optimistic frame of mind at the moment .....

Lucy I will add Dr Kellor to my list of people to speak too ;) I've been trying to read through the site but have had to take a break from reading all the sites I have been as my brain is swimming but will start at it again tomorrow (early if I cant get myself back to sleep again).

Thank you everyone once again for your continued help and support it really means so very much :D
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top