18,000 "useless" horses in Ireland

Spook said:
If there was an open and transparent market for horsemeat with properly regulated slaughterhouses, there would be virtually no starving nor neglected horses for the charities to deal with due to the animals having a goodish value..... do remember there is a world shortage of meat.

But will the charities want to loose their colossal income in the name of welfare?????? I doubt it, they have vast numbers of salaried people raising money to keep them in work!!!!!! It's a VICIOUS circle being perpetuated for financial gain.
Click to expand...

money is the route of all evil
 
Spook said:
But will the charities want to loose their colossal income in the name of welfare?????? I doubt it, they have vast numbers of salaried people raising money to keep them in work!!!!!!
Click to expand...

This is a bit of a sweeping statement. The 3 equine rescue charities that I support are run on a voluntary basis. Not one person is paid for their work.
 
Spook said:
If there was an open and transparent market for horsemeat with properly regulated slaughterhouses, there would be virtually no starving nor neglected horses for the charities to deal with due to the animals having a goodish value..... do remember there is a world shortage of meat.

But will the charities want to loose their colossal income in the name of welfare?????? I doubt it, they have vast numbers of salaried people raising money to keep them in work!!!!!! It's a VICIOUS circle being perpetuated for financial gain.
Click to expand...

Well for a start, WHW, do not only work in this country, they help teach people in under developed countries to care for their animals, train blacksmiths, provide vet advice, so they can help both the animals and people.
Before the current crisis Rehoming charities used to help in cases where people for whatever reason (illness, death) could no longer keep their animals, and there will always sadly be people who neglect their animals, so there will always be a need for a safety net.
 
stormox said:
Hairy Old Cob - when did they have stallion licences? Theres always been plenty of unregistered stallions around- Ive never heard of people not being allowed to keep a stallion, or HAVING to use a liscensed stallion, and Ive been in horses a very long time!
Click to expand...

Showing my Age here and Sorry Alec I will try to keep up must be an age thing again.
I am all for a transparent regulated meat trade but once again their is a certain community who will endeavor to try to get around all rules and regulations the pet food trade would be better than nothing which I am sure can all ready take the poorer cases as class 2 foodstuffs. The authorities need to be given sweeping powers to be able to seize and PTS it is pointless giving the horse back to be tethered somewhere else that is probably even more unsuitable.
 
Adopter I think I said "virtually no neglected, starving horses" nor did I say there would not be a need for a safety net......... but the scale of the charities would only need to be miniscule by comparison with what we have at present, surely that would be positive from a welfare stance.

Only this morning I heard of 80 cobs offered for nothing to someone I know...... they have absolutely no value whatsoever .......nobody wants the spare horses. There are many thousands more too. Think what next winter will bring, this one has been mild and the grass has grown all season here. Imagine if it had been like last winter. Time to get sorted...... it ain't going to get any better so think on.......
 
Last edited:
Spook said:
Adopter I think I said "virtually no neglected, starving horses" nor did I say there would not be a need for a safety net......... but the scale of the charities would only need to be miniscule by comparison with what we have at present, surely that would be positive from a welfare stance.

Only this morning I heard of 80 cobs offered for nothing to someone I know...... they have absolutely no value whatsoever .......nobody wants the spare horses. There are many thousands more too. Think what next winter will bring, this one has been mild and the grass has grown all season here. Imagine if it had been like last winter. Time to get sorted...... it ain't going to get any better so think on.......
Click to expand...

Spook I did not agree with your comment on hard working charties, however I am not against horsemeat in a proper regulated system, and I agree that the present situation is bad and unsustainable.

Just wish our MP'sand DEFRA would follow welsh example.
 
Spook said:
.......

But will the charities want to loose their colossal income in the name of welfare?????? I doubt it, they have vast numbers of salaried people raising money to keep them in work!!!!!! It's a VICIOUS circle being perpetuated for financial gain.
Click to expand...

More factual, and simple common sense.

Well said, but I'd go further, the bulk of those who direct these charities, sadly, haven't the faintest idea what they're on about, and in truth, they care very little. The generating of income takes precedence over any claimed for moral or ethical stance.

Alec.
 
we need a cull....no question.



i was going to sell my filly....but given the fact youngsters are worth nothing no matter how nice id rather keep hold of her than her to end up in a fate abandoned at the side of the road :(

id rather pts than sell a cheap horse with issues in this climate...




so cull or eat them.......
 
I expect to be shot down for what I am about to say, but I want to say it anyway. While I am by no means a horse expert (although I do have some experience working with them and have horse owning friends), I am appalled by the pro-culling comments. There is a much bigger population problem that is NOT being addressed and that is the human population. The planet is struggling to cope with the sheer number of people and the environment is definitely suffering already. What with pollution and loss of greenbelt/forestry. Yet people are only too quick to advocate culls of other species and other means of populations control (such as sterilization and responsible breeding). I am not advocating the culling of humans myself (although it would be best for murderers and rapists), but I would gladly see a lot of people limited as to how many children they can have and forced sterilization if need be.

Anyway, back to the topic. Why not provide jobs for those unwanted horses? They could perhaps be used for therapy. Such as helping people with autism and other conditions that makes socialising with other humans difficult. Or perhaps donated to the RDA. They could also be used in programs that help to rehabilitate offenders. I understand that these are popular in America (like in Pit Bulls and Parolees and the various Mustang programs). If money was spent on providing facilities for these things to happen, then surely the long term benefits would outweigh the cost of setting them up. Or could the councils set up their own riding centres? Whereby unwanted (but ridable) horses are used in lessons at say a cheaper cost than regular riding centres. Could the equestrian sport bodies or sporting bodies in general help to fund this as it might inspire youngsters to take-up riding at a professional level? There must be better alternatives to killing them!
 
Love_my_Lurcher said:
I would gladly see a lot of people limited as to how many children they can have and forced sterilization if need be.
Click to expand...

Sure China does that and they're getting a real hammering on another thread on this board!!

Your idea is really nice but we don't live in a world where no animals will ever die, sadly. Do you really think it is feasible to find jobs for 18,000 horses?
 
Love_my_Lurcher said:
I expect to be shot down for what I am about to say, but I want to say it anyway. While I am by no means a horse expert (although I do have some experience working with them and have horse owning friends), I am appalled by the pro-culling comments. There is a much bigger population problem that is NOT being addressed and that is the human population. The planet is struggling to cope with the sheer number of people and the environment is definitely suffering already. What with pollution and loss of greenbelt/forestry. Yet people are only too quick to advocate culls of other species and other means of populations control (such as sterilization and responsible breeding). I am not advocating the culling of humans myself (although it would be best for murderers and rapists), but I would gladly see a lot of people limited as to how many children they can have and forced sterilization if need be.

Anyway, back to the topic. Why not provide jobs for those unwanted horses? They could perhaps be used for therapy. Such as helping people with autism and other conditions that makes socialising with other humans difficult. Or perhaps donated to the RDA. They could also be used in programs that help to rehabilitate offenders. I understand that these are popular in America (like in Pit Bulls and Parolees and the various Mustang programs). If money was spent on providing facilities for these things to happen, then surely the long term benefits would outweigh the cost of setting them up. Or could the councils set up their own riding centres? Whereby unwanted (but ridable) horses are used in lessons at say a cheaper cost than regular riding centres. Could the equestrian sport bodies or sporting bodies in general help to fund this as it might inspire youngsters to take-up riding at a professional level? There must be better alternatives to killing them!
Click to expand...

I totally agree with your comments about reducing the human race and that is part of the reason why I don't agree with certain medical practices because IMO it is overiding nature and nature (when left alone) will naturally cull via disease etc but humans now seem to be exempt to things like this.

On the subject of the horses however then yes there does need to be a cull - there are just not enough homes for the amount of horses.

Personally I do not see any issue with horses being used for meat if it's done properly, why shouldn't horse meat be eaten in this country? Horses were eaten during the war.
 
Too many breeding for little money now they are completely worthless and people are so stretched financially paying off the Banker and Builders debt there is a huge crisis!

It's been brewing for years, horses are left to breed for pin money, castration costs money so is rarely done, the back door to the food chain is more or less closed so horses are dumped and left to starve. I doubt many will have had any drugs!
 
tristar said:
how about a thead entitled '18,000 useless horse owners in ireland', in my experience horses are rarely useless.
Click to expand...

Yes, one mans trash is another mans treasure. Some of these "useless" horses are probably unhanded unbroken cobs. Many of which would probably make smashing hunters, fun all rounders, safe family horses or riding school ponies. People breed horses without the skill or knowledge to produce them. Others are just too damn lazy to bother doing something with them. Walk into any low standard sales ring. Some of the horses haven't even seen a dandy brush and have brought half the field with them. Do the owners really expect to get a sale?

Yes some of the animals are of such a poor quality that soundness issues may prevent them from having a useful life. But most will be up to a working life. None of the safe ponies I learned to ride on were anything spectacular to look at.

The relentless breeding needs to stop, and people need to get off their backsides and teach the existing horses a few basics to give them a chance to find a home. And yes, i'm not in denial. Some need to be culled. But not all.
 
Bring back stallion licencing . £500 per year annual licence for any colt/stallion 2 yrs old and over whether used at stud or not. Would go a long way to helping with the overbreeding problem.
 
Millikins, sadly there are many, many "unwanted" horses in the hands of law abiding citizens too...... the blame, if there has to be one, for this crisis is far more complicated than that of the perception of irresponsible breeder. Indeed I have had 3 horses shot in the last couple of years who in the normal scheme of things would have gone either for pet food or meat. Not every horse bred is up to standard, not even at the top end so to speak. Horses have become like dogs in the eyes of public.... all cuddley wuddley.... there is no wonder there are so many unsound, lame, bonkers horses on the go..... historically the "litter wastage" would have gone for meat or been shot anyway as they were useless and not fit for purpose, now they are useless and so bred from by the careing masses!!, Sorry but this is true.
 
Spook, you misunderstand me. I quite agree with you. I'm just saying that we have passports, they don't work: stallion licencing would be the same, unless the authorities who make the rules are prepared to enforce them it won't make a jot of difference. And since most of those breeding quantities of unwanted horses don't play by the rules now, what point would another new law be?
 
Horsesforever1 said:
Bring back stallion licencing . £500 per year annual licence for any colt/stallion 2 yrs old and over whether used at stud or not. Would go a long way to helping with the overbreeding problem.
Click to expand...

and the responsible breeders would pay and those who cannot be named would not. where does the money come to fund this and the policing of it as well? Not having a go, I want solutions as well!
 
MrsD123 said:
I'm not sure why they can't go in to pet food.
Click to expand...

Can anyone answer that one? I, too, am curious.

I suspect it may be because pet owners are even more fussy about what their pets eat than what is on their own plates.

A friend of mine supplied rabbit meat to a major pet food manufacturer. That was fine until the manufacturer's x-ray equipment picked up a couple of pieces of lead shot in the meat. They promptly canceled the contract and my friend went bankrupt to the tune of half a million pounds!
 
Spook said:
Millikins, sadly there are many, many "unwanted" horses in the hands of law abiding citizens too...... the blame, if there has to be one, for this crisis is far more complicated than that of the perception of irresponsible breeder. Indeed I have had 3 horses shot in the last couple of years who in the normal scheme of things would have gone either for pet food or meat. Not every horse bred is up to standard, not even at the top end so to speak. Horses have become like dogs in the eyes of public.... all cuddley wuddley.... there is no wonder there are so many unsound, lame, bonkers horses on the go..... historically the "litter wastage" would have gone for meat or been shot anyway as they were useless and not fit for purpose, now they are useless and so bred from by the careing masses!!, Sorry but this is true.
Click to expand...

I do agree that there seems to be far more ordinary people keeping horses and ponies on scraps of land than there were in the past, there are also too many people seem unable to take the responsible long view and pts unsuitable animals, they just want to pass the problem on for others to solve.

It is a very sad situation, just hope DEFRA will take some action soon.
 
millikins said:
Spook, you misunderstand me. I quite agree with you. I'm just saying that we have passports, they don't work: stallion licencing would be the same, unless the authorities who make the rules are prepared to enforce them it won't make a jot of difference. And since most of those breeding quantities of unwanted horses don't play by the rules now, what point would another new law be?
Click to expand...

Ah sorry, I apologise.
 
Spook said:
Anyone know why a withdrawal period cannot be established for equines???? prior to slaughter.
Click to expand...
Cost? No studies have been done re bute so it automatically falls into the never for human consumption bracket in my understanding.

Just found this re UK. I think there's a list on DEFRA I vaguely remember reading a while back. http://www.vetsforequinewelfare.org/prohibited-drugs.php

ps. I was wrong there have been studies on toxicology of bute re human consumption. http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...elibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/eve.12112/full
 
Last edited:
Dry Rot said:
Can anyone answer that one? I, too, am curious.

I suspect it may be because pet owners are even more fussy about what their pets eat than what is on their own plates.

A friend of mine supplied rabbit meat to a major pet food manufacturer. That was fine until the manufacturer's x-ray equipment picked up a couple of pieces of lead shot in the meat. They promptly canceled the contract and my friend went bankrupt to the tune of half a million pounds!
Click to expand...

To be honest I would not appreciate lead shot making it into my dogs' food. It might make them ill or worse. However, they could have simply rejected that batch of meat and continued with the contract.

I believe people are fussier about pet food than their own food as sadly dogs, cats, etc have much shorter lifespans than us and a good quality diet might just help them live longer.
 
Very interesting..... so it seems that Bute is about the same as asprin!! Maybe those of you taking asprin for its benefit to the blood and its possible anti cancer properties should think again (here my tongue is firmly in my cheek)

Also it's surprising how many of the listed drugs are used on other species destined for meat. Of course prior to slaughter a fixed withdrawal period has to be observed.
 
Just to return to the thread, doesn't the fact that there are 18,000 useless horses out there imply that there are 18,000 equally useless owners!!??
 
Dry Rot said:
Just to return to the thread, doesn't the fact that there are 18,000 useless horses out there imply that there are 18,000 equally useless owners!!??
Click to expand...
Many have a lot more than one each. Lots of people breed horses here to supplement their incomes. Most families round me have a few cattle or horses or sheep...
 
amandap said:
Many have a lot more than one each. Lots of people breed horses here to supplement their incomes. Most families round me have a few cattle or horses or sheep...
Click to expand...

Good point. As an example, there was recently an ad up where a guy in Ireland was selling off 100 young connemara ponies that they bred. And another guy bred 180 miniatures, THEN realised that he had too many and was having trouble selling them off and had to get help from a rescue centre. A few more idiots like that and you suddenly have a huge number.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top