1st time breeder

[EQUISCENE]

Hi just looking for advice really, wanting to have a litter from my lovely 3yr old black & tan terrier bitch. Wanting to breed one for ourselves a tri colour pref because our bitch has an amazing temperament and is a lovely type. My main concerns would be if we have to leave her with the stud dog for a few days or is it successful on a day visit or something?

 

[s4sugar]

What breeding is your bitch?
To me a black & tan is a Manchester!

Bitches generally visit the stud twice -two days apart but you really need to research what is behind both sides well inadvance.
What do you mean by tricolour as this usually means a black & tan with white trim but do you mean a white with balck & tan patches?

 

[EQUISCENE]

Well if I said JRT I'd get jumped on as many don't think that black & tans are true JRT's however she is classic to their type, must be some manchester somewhere though to get this colouring - have updated avatar so you can see what she is like. I am wanting a tri colour terrier like her with the same temperament, she is so loyal and loves everyone and everything so a great companion/lorry dog etc..

 

[Holding]

Honestly? Don't do it. I have a gorgeous whippet, and I wanted another just like her, so decided to breed a litter. We did everything by the book, and we still almost lost her. She had to have a c-section and ended up having ten puppies, which we are now having to hand raise because she has no milk. The vet fees have been huge, and we are now spending all day and night feeding puppies. Luckily they have all survived, but if I could go back in time there's no way I would risk my bitch's life when I could spend far less time and money and just buy a new puppy.

Sorry if that's not what you want to hear. If you're anything like me you will decide to go ahead with it anyway, so good luck!

 

[EQUISCENE]

Omg Holding so sorry to hear about your experience I would be devastated in your position, hope everything continues positively for you..

 

[catxx]

I have to say that for your reasons of breeding, I don't recommend doing it. There's no guarantee you'll get clones of her and you could easily end up in the same position as Holding did with her poor dog.

Not to mention there really are tons of terriers, including black and tan types, in rescue so if you couldn't sell the puppies you would have a hard time finding a rescue to take them too. Small terrier puppies are a magnet for dodgy types too, many getting stolen, or pretending to be loving families, and used for illicit things like badger baiting and dog fighting bait dogs.

 

[EQUISCENE]

I wouldnt be advertising them - to be honest we live in a very rural tight knit farming/horsey community and we would be able to find them homes locally with friends and through word of mouth. When we were looking for a terrier we went to The Dogs Trust/RSPCA/Blue Cross and all of the terriers we saw where snappy and unpredictable dogs.

 

[Dobiegirl]

http://www.dogstuff.info/to_breed_or_not.html

There are far too many dogs in rescue without breeding more of the same, you say you can find homes for all the pups but can you guarantee they wont think the same as you and breed a litter, this is how it all starts. Can you offer to have the dogs back if the owners can no longer keep them which is what responsible breeders do because it would be terribley unfair for a rescue to pick up the pieces from you.

It seems to me your dog is not a typical JR so trying to breed a dog to fit is well nigh impossible, have a look at other breeds Lancashire Heelers for example which fits your criteria.

Jack Russells suffer from luxating patella and numerous eye conditions including PLL, will your potential stud be screened for this, is your bitch?, temperment and health are the most importent consideration before breeding.

 

[EQUISCENE]

Agree with a lot you say Dobie girl except that responsible breeders take dogs back - they are definitely in the minority because if this was the case there would not be so many specific 'breed' rescues.

 

[s4sugar]

Responsible breeders do take dogs back -and mop after the irresponsible ones too.

 

[Dobiegirl]

There are breeders and there are responsible breeders, when I bought my first Lancashire Heelers back in the late 80s the breeder said she would take them back if I could no longer have them. These sort of breeders are the ones that health test and have the breed at heart not breeders who are breedng for the money.

I belong to 2 groups on fb Lancashire Heelers and Dobermanns and all the breeders on there take back any dogs that need rehoming they also help out with breed rescue. My current 2 Dobermanns are from a breed rescue and they were not bred by reponsible breeders but were actually bred by someone like you for the same reasons.

 

[Superhot]

When you have a lovely dog, people often say they'd love to have a puppy from her should you decide to breed. Saying is one thing, actually doing is another. Have you had all the relevant health tests done on your bitch?? Hips and eyes are the usual but there may be more specific tests for your breed.
Are you at home all day and night to look after the pups, making sure mum doesn't squash them, they all get fed etc.? It really is a huge commitment and not something to do lightly. If you were to take on a rescue dog, whose to say it won't turn out like your JRT? It sounds like you've done a really good job with her, so I'm sure you could do the same again!

 

[echodomino]

Agree with a lot you say Dobie girl except that responsible breeders take dogs back - they are definitely in the minority because if this was the case there would not be so many specific 'breed' rescues.

Not strictly true, nearly every responsible breeder I know of take their puppies back at what ever age for what ever the reason, that's the point of being responsible! The breed specific rescues are usually set up by breed specific clubs to rescue those without responsible breeders and so as the dogs don't end up in mainstream rescue centres in attempt to do better for the breed/look after it.

 

[AmyMay]

There is a post on here about a dog advertised on gumtree. Give that one a home op.

 

[Alexart]

I wouldn't breed either unless you are prepared to get all the proper health tests, not just a health check, and the same for a stud dog - which I very very much doubt you'll ever find for a terrier type - all you'll get is a random mutt who wants to use their dog at stud to pay for their x-box and fags!!
Having worked at a vets for years as a vet nurse we saw plenty of folk like you with a lovely terrier who they wanted a nice pup, they put their bitch in pup only to go home with a dead dog and if they were lucky a few pups to hand rear or often a load of dead pups too - there are too many risks, not to mention the costs - it is far far cheaper to go and buy a pup or rescue one than breed one! Also there is no guarentee the mum will get on long term with the pup you keep - that happens all to often!!

Not mention the huuuuuuge number of perfectly gorgeous pups in rescue at the mo due to the vast number of BYB trying to make a fast buck and breeding their dogs so the market is flooded! Breeding from a dog purely because she is a nice pet and is a pretty colour is totally the wrong reason to breed to start with!!
I have a gorgeous patterdale x lakeland at the mo - she is a stunning yellow colour and a very good ratter, great conformation too. I've been asked by a few folk to breed a pup for them - she's being speyed next month, i know people will always say they want a pup but when it actually comes down to it they never actually take one when they realise just how much work and money is needed, or they take one then give it back or ditch it 6 months later - so there is no way I'd ever consider it, plus we value her life too much to risk it!! I'd just get your lovely dog speyed and rescue/buy a pup.

 

[satinbaze]

Breeding a litter is a very expensive thing to do. By the time you add up health tests (IMHO hips scores and eye tests are essential for all breeding stock regardless of breed), stud fees, ovulation blood tests, whelping box, new vet bed, wormers, food for both bitch and puppies, vets fees for puppy checks, vaccination at 8 weeks old, kennel club registration, possible caeserian etc etc the money really adds up.
Also the sleepless nights, stress of worring about whether the homes the pups are going to are good, stress of a puppy comming back and having to find him a fabulous home, stress of unsold puppies running around the house. I think it took me about 1 year to recover from a litter of 7 puppies. Then my bitch had SIPS and was still bleeding 12 weeks after giving birth. The cost of this was not covered by insurance.
Breeding a litter needs very serious thought

 

[Dobiegirl]

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=529866&highlight=vizslak

Op you might find this interesting, its by a member on here who bred a litter of pups and detailed the cost, its a real eye opener. Make sure you read it right through because there is some funny bits as well.

 

[That old chestnut]

It is written in our contract with our breeder that if we ever need to rehome our dog we have to return her to her to find her a new home. If she is successful in selling her on we will.get the money. Altjough it would be more than likely she would keep her; she has done sobefore. This was one of the reasons we chose her as a breeder. She continues to be responsible throughout our dogs life.

 

[haycroft]

Read this with interest as I would like to breed one day ,my bitch is KC n is known on the track n field n doing well
I also haven't done it ,n hav come across c section esp in whippets ( got a v good Sighthound vet )
Even now I'm looking out for a good match height weight temperament etc ( mayb in a yr or two to mate )
If ya terrier isn't kc u wouldn't hav that fee to reg but things can go wrong but there's the joys aswell
As so many said lots being advertised n in rescues
But if u do decide get some homes lined up
You can borrow a welping box or could b made ,get the vet to check ya bitch via mating
Don't breed too young or too old 2-5 ideal ,spay afterwards
Good luck

Holding
I was wondering how u were getting on with hand rearing glad they r surviving , my bitch was hand reared mother died ,,litter survived n doing well

 

[haycroft]

Hav you stud dogs in mind
Mayb it's worth having the stud dog to bitch where she's more likely b relax ,,but if experienced stud should know what's he's doing lol
Would the stud owner charge a stud fee or a pup ,,stud IMO shouldnt b more than a pups worth
Plz do some research ,,this mustn't taken lightly ( I know many do )

 

[CorvusCorax]

Re-posted from another forum and points which I totally agree with (have removed some breed-specific points)

"It's OK to be bias about your dogs. We all think that our dogs are the best, but when it comes down to the reproduction the bias behavior needs to go away, and honesty needs to play a big role in the decisions of breeding an animal. You are about to bring life to this tough world. To breed you should have some knowledge about genetics; to know the difference between genetically health related to non-related. You should know at least basic veterinary medicine as your puppy buyers may occasionally call you up for medical related questions.
You should have goals that you want to achieve in the breed. To thrive in improving the quality, not quantity. We have enough (dogs) being tossed into the shelters every single day. Many of them are euthanized because there's just too many of them in pounds/shelters."
(This poster bred two health tested, working titled dogs together, to keep one for herself and create a legacy, the two she retained, one had a disqualifying fault, the other had a pancreatic problem, the mother of the litter had allergies which were passed on and the dam eventually died of an allergy-related issue)

To add, all the responsible breeders I know take back their stock at whatever age and whatever the circumstances (I can screenshot Facebook statuses/rehoming appeals for anyone who doesn't believe me) and mostly these are breeders competing at the top of their game and some who have enough on their plates including ill health and relationship problems.
Reversing a bitch into a dog, does not a 'breeder' make.

 

[Dobiegirl]

I agree CC with everything you say but the op hasnt come back on and will probabley do it anyway because she can

 

[EQUISCENE]

Dobie dont be so flippin' righteous actually I have taken all these points on board and will NOT be breeding from my terrier mainly because if I lost her due to complications I would be devastated..

Thank you everyone for the constructive points of view

 

[Dobiegirl]

Im glad you came back and you are not going to breed from your dog, we have been very restrained on this thread as it usually kicks off big time.


If it makes you feel any better we were considering breeding from our Lancashire Heeler bitch and they are on the KC vunerable list because their numbers are so low. Our girl is well bred and has won in the show ring but with the amount of dogs in rescue of all breeds and the thought we might lose her made us decide we are not breeding. We will look for another pup when the time is right.

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

 

[Superhot]

Equiscene, thanks for taking the time to reply. I guess it makes a forum like this worthwhile, if differing opinions have helped you to make a decision.