2.5 acre 'Perfect Paddock' - Advice on purchase / livery price

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Hello everyone :o)

I would be really grateful for some advice and opinion on the purchase price or livery cost for a 2.5 acre 'perfect paddock'.

I am a university business management student and am writing an essay which shows the link between good equine facilities and countryside management / conservation. The 'perfect paddock' is a theoretical design which takes into account the needs of the horse, the owner and the environment.

I will explain what the 'perfect paddock' is and would be extremely grateful for any feedback with regard to design, and most importantly, the expected cost to the owner, either as purchase price, or the expected rental value as a livery.

The 'perfect paddock is 2.5 acres of good quality grazing land surrounded by responsibly sourced timber post and rail fencing (topped with electric tape to prevent chewing, leaning etc). The paddock is divided into 2 (1 acre each) by post and rail fencing incorporating a gate to help with grass management. The gate can obviously be left open to provide constant access to both paddocks if required. The paddocks both have self filling water troughs.

The facilities are all made from treated wood and include 2 stables, a tack room, a covered grooming area, a hay store, a toilet (plumbed into septic tank) and electricity supply provided by solar panels fitted to the roofs.

There is also a 20m x 40m outdoor arena, surrounded by post and rail fencing.


In my essay I am trying to create the 'perfect paddock' for both horse and owner (obviously within reason, ie no jacuzzi suggestions please!) so any suggestions on improving the design etc would be appreciated.

I am also trying to show that these paddocks would be cost effective, but have no idea what the cost would be to the customer. It may well turn out that the 'perfect paddock' would be prohibitively expensive for most people. What would you expect to pay to purchase the 'perfect paddock' and also an idea on what the expected livery/rental cost would be appreciated.

Thank you all so much for your time so far, I sincerely hope that you spend a little more time providing me with invaluable feedback.

Mark Butcher
 
Cost wise to purchase it would be hugely expensive as 'pony paddock' size tend to cost in excess of £15k an acre round here- without facilities. With the facilities you are talking about i would expect it to have a purchase price of approx £50 - £75k (depending on area even more).

You would need to add in security - if it is not attached to a property they the security risks are far higher so gates, CCTV etc need to be added.

You also need to add in storage for mainetenance equipment, tractor, harrow, topper etc plus spare fencing to repair damage. also Hard standing for trailer /lorry.

In an ideal world you would have an area of flat concrete to trot horses up for the vet.

2.5 acres is probably not cost effective - not enough to produce hay and only really suitable for ponies - not horses as you would need a minimum of 2 animals, they would graze it to the ground very quickly through the summer and would then trash it in winter - requiring loads of maintenance , reseeding rest etc for the following year. So you would really need to create an all weather turnout paddock for winter to try and save your fields.
 
Thankyou so much for the quick reply 'Bosworth'.

I'm not so sure I'd be able to budget into my design the building of a tractor/equipment shed, however, if I left adequate room on the design, this is something the owner could add if they required. Some people may use a contractor for that type of thing so wouldn't require the storeage?

Excellent suggestion about security, I can't believe I hadn't even thought about that, and the hard standing for trailer/lorry definately worth putting into my design.

I am concerned about the amount of land the design should have. I chose 2 acres because I had been told a rule of thumb was 1 acre per horse. How many acres would you ideally need if you wanted to cut hay and also prevent the horses from destroying it?

Thanks again for your help, I look forward to hearing from you again :o)
 
I would want two acres per horse at least. I currently have one per horse, and they are stabled at night all year round, it it is enough if I fertilize. It wouldn;t manage 24 hour turnout, and in fact the grass does disappear in the winter. I have to feed hay. There is no scope for cutting hay and wouldn;t be even on 2 acres per horse I dont; think. For me, to be really perfect, I would like a nice natural hedge around at least two sides and maybe a couple fo trees.
 
Thanks for your reply Brandy,

If I increase the design to be 2 acres per horse, and keep in all original fencing (unfortunately, not every paddock might have lovely hedgerow) do you think the 4 acres would have to be individually fenced, post and rail in 1 or 2 acre paddocks so you can rotate the horses throughout the year?

Also, what sort of price do you think customers would be expected to pay for purchase or as a rental/livery? Do you agree with 'bosworth' on around £75000 dependent on area (actually that figure was based on 2acres)

thanks for your help :o)
 
I would agree that 2 horses would ideally want 4 acres - each fenced into 1 acre paddocks - to allow rotational grazing and not stress the grass.

With regard to cost I would suggest you email a couple of rural chartered surveyors in different areas of the country and ask them what they would price it at. They will be able to give you the price per acre and the add for facilities.

The menage would need to have flood lights to allow optimum usage in winter, also, it would benefit from being built with a Dutch Barn type roof to offer protection from both rain & sun whilst schooling.

The only other thing to note is that there should in a perfect world be some shelter in each of the paddocks so the horses can get out of the sun / wind / rain during the day if necessary.

hope that is of some help
 
I would agree with the others regarding the size, 4 acres is much more reasonable for 2 horses.

The cost of land varies depending on where you are in the country, e.g. Oxfordshire is going to be massively more expensive than Lancashire for example. It also varies depending on how many acres you need, the first couple of acres are disproportionately expensive because this is what everyone needs, 10 acres is very valuable, then the price per acre starts dropping as most people do not need as much as 30-40 acres (unless they want to farm in which case they need substantially more and expect to pay a lot less per acre than smallholders or horse owners).

Costs:
- arena: depends on surface but could be anything between 10,000 and 55,000
- stables: you need a concrete base and then the stables, approximately 10,000 but again it will depend on the materials, I have no idea what the cost of the wood you have in mind would be
- electricity and water: how far away are the mains? It can cost insane amounts to bring mains electricity and water to isolated areas. Are you sure solar panels will fulfill the electricity needs? E.g. the farrier will need electricity, it's not just low level lighting.
- septic tank: tough to get PP for this one, best to try to connect to mains.

Are you addressing the PP issue at all or do you assume PP is available? It would be interesting to see if there are any design considerations that might make PP more likely.
 
I have 2.5 acres, divided up with electric fencing into smaller paddocks. The outer perimeter is post/rail fencing with some hedging and a couple of trees in one paddock. I have 3 stables on hard standing, a hay and straw 'lean-to' and space for the trailer. I also have one of those locked security containers as a feed room.

I have no water supply- so all buildings have sloped roofs with gutters into water containers.

I rotate my grazing and the horses are in at night- in winter I rest the main field and keep the horses in smaller turn-out area which has grass in it, but I need to put hay out also. I do not grow enough grass to make hay.

I have no arena- but one of the paddocks is pretty flat so I use than if I need to.

I rent this for £40 pw...no idea what it would cost to buy....cos my landlady won't sell...grrr:mad::p:D
 
There are design considerations which make PP more likely - for example some areas of the country it is easier to get PP if your arena is not fenced (and lets face it, you can plant a hedge ;) ).

In terms of PP issues (if they are being addressed) you must show biodiversity gain on all developments these days, plus a lot of rural planning authorities have 'horsification' policies in their local plans/local development frameworks - it would be worth going through several of these for different areas of the country and pulling out their policies to see a) how they differ and b) what restrictions you would come up against.

Personally, I would rather have big hedges (so some shelter) round the edge of the field, then divide in 2 with post and rail and do the rest with electric tape so I could change the configuration. I would also like the stables to open onto a 'pen' area which could be used in foul weather so the horses could stretch their legs if the land was (for example) flooded. I would like this pen to then open directly into the fields so the horses could have the choice of in or out. Hot and cold running water is a must for me.
 
poppymoo said:
I have 2.5 acres, divided up with electric fencing into smaller paddocks. The outer perimeter is post/rail fencing with some hedging and a couple of trees in one paddock. I have 3 stables on hard standing, a hay and straw 'lean-to' and space for the trailer. I also have one of those locked security containers as a feed room.

I have no water supply- so all buildings have sloped roofs with gutters into water containers.

I rotate my grazing and the horses are in at night- in winter I rest the main field and keep the horses in smaller turn-out area which has grass in it, but I need to put hay out also. I do not grow enough grass to make hay.

I have no arena- but one of the paddocks is pretty flat so I use than if I need to.

I rent this for £40 pw...no idea what it would cost to buy....cos my landlady won't sell...grrr:mad::p:D
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Wow thats a lot per week.I am so lucky,I rent a field,its almost 4 acres, water all year round and use of the cowshed,can do as I please,owner leaves me too it and he feeds my 2 on the holidays ie xmas (have field to myself) and I pay £20.00 PER MONTH for both. (friend of the family owns the field). I eventually would like to buy the field. (if he'll sell that is).
 
Since this is a theoretical exercise, it might be interesting for you take a look at Jaime Jackson's Paddock Paradise. In essence, he proposes an alternative paddock design based on his observations of wild horse behaviour in the western USA.

The basic principle is a fenced-off track around the outside of a field. This track is kept mostly bare of grass, but studded with points of interest, such as watering/bathing opportunities, deposits of hay, resting places...The idea is to encourage the horses to keep moving more as they would in a natural environment, rather than standing around and getting fat (and possibly laminitic) in a lush field. The open space in the centre of the track can be used for growing hay, could contain an arena, or be used for short-term turn-out. The overall space needed is not very much.

This model appears logically sound, and I have seen one implementation of it in the UK, which seems to be working very well. However, given the usual layout of livery yards and the wet, lush climate, there are some barriers to setting it up. For one thing, you either need a number of other liveries on-side, who are willing to give it a go, or you need your own land. Secondly, since the land is so wet here, it wouldn't be sufficient in most areas to clear the track of grass; you'd have to put down some surface (such as pea-gravel) to keep it from turning into a mud bath. That would be a large initial expense (though the rest of it isn't expensive, I think).

It might be very interesting to horse owners if you were to investigate this model along with your more traditional model, as a sort of feasibility study.

As the owner of a native pony cross that is difficult to manage on the far-too-good grazing we have here, I've been looking into this as a possibility for preventing obesity and laminitis. There's hardly a horse on our yard that's not too fat at the moment, and I think we've come to the point where there is a big enough interest group on our yard to seriously think about trying to run one of the fields in this way.
 
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Well we turned down a lovely 4 acre +3/4 acre extra place with 4 stables (brick built, large garage/store also brick built) generator water supply haystore/tack room. Surrounded by treated wooden fencing. Main road access. The price was £75,000 this was in North Devon we felt because no planning permission would be given to build a house that it was too much for just land and stables.
 
flowerlady said:
Well we turned down a lovely 4 acre +3/4 acre extra place with 4 stables (brick built, large garage/store also brick built) generator water supply haystore/tack room. Surrounded by treated wooden fencing. Main road access. The price was £75,000 this was in North Devon we felt because no planning permission would be given to build a house that it was too much for just land and stables.
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Jeez! If I could find 4 acres and 4 stables for 75K where I am (S. Oxon) I would be running down to the bank today!!!
 
ihatework said:
Jeez! If I could find 4 acres and 4 stables for 75K where I am (S. Oxon) I would be running down to the bank today!!!
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They have recently sold it but I don't think they got the asking price as we veiwed it 18 months ago and it has only sold over the last 3 months. You see to me if I can't build a house on it it's only grazing land so only worth about £5K - £10K per acre?
 
Thanks for all of the wonderful suggestions so far.

I am intrigued by the 'Paddock Paradise' suggestion, I have just found a copy of the book in the library, so have had it reserved and will pick it up later.

Does anybody else have experience of the pros and cons of 'Paddock Paradise'?

Also, I had not thought about integrating planning considerations into my design, but actually, upon relfection this is an area that may be important to the overall essay, especially with regard to environmental matters / legislation.

Does anybody have any experience of the planning constraints involved with developing land for equestrian use? Is it dificult to get permissions, or is it relatively straight forward?

Any information with regard to paddock paradise or planning considerations would be greatly appreciated,

Mark

ps, this forum beats Horse & Rider hands down! only one person replied on there! hehe
 
From personal experience, it can be quite tough to get planning permission but it depends on the local council. Things that might help or hinder:
- if you have existing agricultural buildings it's usually straight forward to convert them and you may not even need PP
- if you want to put up new buildings, you have a much better chance if you do so within the curtillage of the house. In fact a small building within the curtillage (30 square metres I think) does not need PP at all.
- Building outside the curtillage of the house is much more challenging unless you can combine with main agricultural use.
- the size of the building, especially the height are considerations. The smaller the better. The amount of land may be relevant too, i.e. if you have 2 acres the council may object to 6 stables, as the land is not sufficient for supporting 6 horses.
- the positioning of the building can be crucial, e.g. whether it can be seen from the surrounding country-side or not
- the council may require approval of the materials used to build, e.g. they may impose brick in the brick area, or object to black rubber on an arena, or expect a green coloured roof. I would imagine that some councils may be keen on environmentally friendly buildings so anything in that direction could be a bonus.
- design and aesthetic issues may be of more importance in some areas than others, e.g. it may be impossible to get PP for wooden stables in areas of outstanding natural beauty and the council may even object to husbandry practices that ruin the look of grass paddocks.
 
I think there would be a market for the 2.5 perfect paddock idea. Not everyone wants a large area of land, and although the idea of growing your own hay is great, most people wouldn't want the hassle, so for the two-horse family, it would be easier to buy it in than try to persuade the local farmer to come and cut your measly couple of acres!

Years ago I kept my pony at a farm near Epping Forest. The farmer had subdivided a large area into small paddocks, and each had a block of 2 stables on it, facing another block of 2. So each DIY livery shared a paddock, two horses to each paddock, and it was up to you if you wanted to leave out all year or save the grazing. The manage was shared and they also had a few large fields that went with the rest of the stables - I eventually moved from the paddock to the large field as the other horse in the little paddock bullied mine but if I had had two horses that got on well, it wouldn't have been such a problem.

The paddocks were tiny though, nowhere near an acre each, so it didn't work for me and I moved, but it was popular with people who didn't like sharing a large field or those with laminitics/elderly ponies or competition horses that they didn't want kicked.

Two acres for two horses is just about manageable if the land is reasonable and you are not expecting them to live out, working on the basis that the other half acre is now covered with manage and an area of hard-standing for the trailer/muck heap etc. The only drawback is if you keep two horses together, they tend to pair bond. So you end up with one screaming its head off if the other one goes out. So now we need to factor in a little field shelter for a mini shetland to be a companion pony!

Is the perfect paddock an isolated paddock, or part of a large area divided up into blocks as the farm above?
 
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sharon1959 said:
Wow thats a lot per week.I am so lucky,I rent a field,its almost 4 acres, water all year round and use of the cowshed,can do as I please,owner leaves me too it and he feeds my 2 on the holidays ie xmas (have field to myself) and I pay £20.00 PER MONTH for both. (friend of the family owns the field). I eventually would like to buy the field. (if he'll sell that is).
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Its right next to my house.....so its worth it to me. And I see you get 'mates rates';) Plus its a bit more than a field on its own...its a small but perfectly formed yard lol:D
 
Just as an indication of costs. There is 3.5 acres of really scrubby grazing land just come up for sale near me in South Bucks. As far as I know there are no facilities whatsoever. (I'm uncertain if there is a water supply or not - but if there is, that's the most that's on offer). As far as I know, the fencing is simply wire. There is no direct access to hacking. This has come on to the market for £80 - 85,000.
 
Havent read all replies, but here are a few of my opinions!

You'd need shelter - at the very least trees, at best a shelter.

You'd need somewhere to put the muck heap, I hear that technically its very specific about not being above water courses etc....

I'd also want grass rotation, it'd be unlikely in the winter that if we have snow etc the paddock won't get trashed - look at the photos from last winter on here!! (Search for what do your fields look like or similar).

Security, ideally from someone living on site or at least attached to a house in some way. Would also want hedges round the fields to stop people just pulling the post and rails out the walls.

But basically, there isn't really any "perfect". I.e. our mare who had ks surgery in October would have really struggled in her recovery had she been on totally flat ground as she wouldnt have built up much muscle - living on the side of a hill has helped her massively - but when its snowing we hate that bloody hill!!!
 
It's a bit how long is a piece of string isn't it? 2 acres for two horses is fine if the land is right, but a nightmare if it isn't, for example if it's low-lying clay soil. Then, price depends on the area. Where I am (Kent) you'd pay easily £25 p wk per horse, so £50 per week. Maybe more if it was right on good hacking. For me, it's a bit tight on land however good the ground is, with well drained grazing, for two horses I'd be looking for 3 acres minimum. But I'm sure it would rent or sell round my way (if you could find any land to set it up on!) because little yards are like hen's teeth, and many people are happy to restrict turnout in the winter.
 
Forgot till Flamehead mentioned it OH says you'd need a field shelter as you don't seem to have any natural shelter ie hedges and trees.

PMSL laughing at the Water hole/ bathing?????? area:) will they have to wear bathers:D
 
Traditionally, the amount of land to keep horses is said to be 2 acres for the 1st horse and then 1 acre for each extra horse. Of course practically, it depends very much on the land and its situation.
 
Llewelyn - The original idea was that they would be isolated, but after all of the helpful advice here I am wondering if a better model would be to suggest buying a larger parcel of land to keep costs lower and then divide the area into a little 'perfect paddock' village! Possibly would help with security as there would be more horse people active in the area.

Faro - Oh my god, £80,000 for 3.5 acre. That would make the design for 'Perfect paddock' come in at around £130,000 approx with the rough estimates I have done so far to buy the land and add facilities! Are there actually people who would pay that?! My wife would divorce me if I spent that on a horse instead fo the kids! hehe

Thanks again for all of the replies, my plan is changing by the minute, perhaps I should hold off writing any more of this essay until all of the replies have come in!
 
I think Poppymoo's £40pw for 3 stables, storage and grazing is good. You'd usually pay 15-20pw for stabling and grazing per stable... £20 for one cowshed and grazing is about right, but not cheaper really..

I'd want much more land - it so depends on the type of land - we have clay, that churns and gets very wet- two acres wouldn't last two minutes in winter..

the menage would add a lot to the price too. Keep looking at H&H, there are often yards for rent/ sale...
 
Financially it may work better as a farm diversification scheme. So, for example, a farmer who is looking to come out of dairy farming has the land already so that part of the expenditure is not required. He could put up the stabling (DIY bricks/breeze blocks should be cheaper than wood), then do an arena for a number of tenants to share. Then people pay for renting their own stables/paddock with access to arena.

You'd need to look at the finances to see if that would work out though in terms of generating a decent enough income for the land owner.
 
Since the purpose of writing this essay was to focus on the 'business' aspect of developing this paddock design I am starting to feel that there are two different markets which 'perfect paddock' would appeal to.

To sum up 'perfect paddock' (for 2); 3-4 acres with field shelters, post and rail fencing (topped with electric), self filling water troughs, 2 stables, tack room, covered grooming area, electricity supply (potentially solar), security incl. CCTV, hard standing for trailer/lorry.

A. potential buyers with the funds to be able to pay a premium price of over £100k

B. potential renters, willing to pay approx. £40 per week.

Based on those figures I'm starting to think the 'perfect paddock' is not a financially viable proposal because I think Market (A) would be a limited market and Market (B) would not generate sufficient weekly income to cover the development costs.

Any thoughts on instead trying to target a different Market with environmentaly friendly developments which may please the planners and attract business grants to keep down costs? I would imagine horse keeping would be fairly Eco friendly already, isn't it? Any Eco suggestions?

Mark
 
Not sure on the eco idea sorry, the only suggestion I would have for your first post would be only to have post and rail as a ring fence and then use electric fence internally, that way the owners can move the fence daily if required and balance the area available with the horses needs.
 
Thank you Roo,

I suppose you're right, people would probably prefer the flexibility. As a non horsey person I was just thinking that from an aesthetic point of view, nice post and rail fencing would fit in more with peoples dreams of the perfect paddock. I went all black beauty!

A post and rail ring fence with internal electric fencing would help keep development costs down too, perhaps making it a bit more affordable / realistic for more people.

Thanks for your help,

Mark
 
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