2 Dogs FREE to a good home!!!!!

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Naughty boys! ah the joys of doggydom! Too busy laughing, sorry.

[/ QUOTE ]LOL! !yeah thanks!!
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Boston has done the bin bag trick, he steals them from the garage, or worse the drive on garbage day, and there is rubbish EVERYWHERE! He knows he's been naughty because he runs back to the dumping ground, opens the door and puts himself in his crate
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[/ QUOTE ]LOL bless!!! Tinks normally hides in a corner or under the table!!!
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Rip on the other hand likes to BRING me gifts, a whole deers head the other day (in front of visitors)
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I wish the poachers would butcher their carcasses further away from us.

[/ QUOTE ]Ewww nice!!
 
I know how you feel i had it with my dog, i've had the lino in the kitchen ripped up and a few holes dug up in the cement floor! net curtains ripped up and a hole about an inch deep chewed out of my dining room wall! just to name a few!!!!!!
 
Sorry...did giggle
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Are they getting enough exercise? Could it be pent up energy? It may be Tinks (who looks adorable BTW) is trying to be dominant by ripping things or maybe its a stress thing. My older JRT chews his blankets when he's feeling stressy ie when theres alot going on. My younger one will rip things up in front of my collie as a bit of a bravado type thing. The collie came into the family last and although my older JRT has accepted him perfectly, the younger one (although ok with him) feels the need to constantly prove himself/challenge the collie. My younger JRT also poo's on the floor occasionally even though he knows not to.
 
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I know how you feel i had it with my dog, i've had the lino in the kitchen ripped up and a few holes dug up in the cement floor! net curtains ripped up and a hole about an inch deep chewed out of my dining room wall! just to name a few!!!!!!

[/ QUOTE ]Ohh nice!! - Well I hope they don't start ripping up the laminate flooring - if anything else gets ripped/chewed OH has said they will be kenneled in the garden!!
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Think you must be mistaken, these 2 cuties couldn't possibly have done that!

[/ QUOTE ]LOL - yeah right!!! They were the only 2 in the house - unless of course Tommy Tortoise got out and ripped it then jumped back up onto the side into his viv!! LOL!!
 
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Finn is SOOOOOOOOO gorgeous, how could you be mad with that cute little face!!!!!

[/ QUOTE ]LOL - I know!! He was waggling his gorgeous little tail too - as he didn't really realise it was wrong!!
 
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We still have the scratches and teeth marks in our dining tables legs since when our jack russel was a tiny weeny puppy and shes 11 now lol

[/ QUOTE ]LOL!! Nice!!
 
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Sorry...did giggle
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Are they getting enough exercise? Could it be pent up energy?

[/ QUOTE ]Nope they get PLENTY of exercise so I dunno!! Damn dogs!!
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It may be Tinks (who looks adorable BTW) is trying to be dominant by ripping things or maybe its a stress thing. My older JRT chews his blankets when he's feeling stressy ie when theres alot going on. My younger one will rip things up in front of my collie as a bit of a bravado type thing. The collie came into the family last and although my older JRT has accepted him perfectly, the younger one (although ok with him) feels the need to constantly prove himself/challenge the collie. My younger JRT also poo's on the floor occasionally even though he knows not to.

[/ QUOTE ]Tinker has ALWAYS ripped his blankets/bed etc.. chews his plastic basket, used to chew clothes if he could get them out of the wash basket, get in the bin if he could.... I don't think it's stress OR anxiety TBH.. I think it's pure naughtyness as he does it ALL the time... his bed is in tatters - which is tough as I'm not wasting anymore money on bedding...

He had me up at 3.30 this morning howling and barking ....
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I swear he is defo up for rehoming if he carries on!!
 
It does seem though that Tinker has got a lot worse since Finn's arrival. Is there any way you can give them some time apart in different rooms? Tinker does seem very insecure. It is phenomenal how destrucive dogs can be, Morgan is without the worst we have ever had! The GSD that ate the fridge door was pretty bad, but she has eaten loads of walls, she nibbles paint off walls, she loves zips and toggles and she ate a hole in the utility room vinyl floor. We have foiled her by putting tiles down! We have to cage her when we go out, and she is two and a half years old. Some dogs are just nibblier than others, but they don't necessarily do it out of 'naughtiness'. Also, Tinker cowering is possibly as much to do with your tone of voice as knowing that he has done wrong. If you were to walk in full of praise and smiles I bet he wouldn't cower! Dogs are stupid. That is the only logical explanation I can come up with. Dogs are a man's best friend, diamonds are a girl's best friend. Says it all!
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Explained your disaster to my OH last night - much to his amusement [sorry
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But all he could say was off with the fluffy plums on both accounts as with the FP both dogs will be competitive and try and get one up on each other!

Another things if my OH dog has trashed the place I would leave it for him to clean up
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his dog his mess
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! That way your plea to say bye bye FP's might hit home a little sooner
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Hb
 
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It does seem though that Tinker has got a lot worse since Finn's arrival.

[/ QUOTE ]The thing is Sooty - he hasn't - he was always getting up to no good before Finn arrived
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Is there any way you can give them some time apart in different rooms?

[/ QUOTE ]We do!! Finn is ALWAYS in the kitchen with me of an evening - whenever I'm cooking - he lays down behind me and stays with me until I take dinner into OH.
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Tinker does seem very insecure. It is phenomenal how destrucive dogs can be, Morgan is without the worst we have ever had! The GSD that ate the fridge door was pretty bad, but she has eaten loads of walls, she nibbles paint off walls, she loves zips and toggles and she ate a hole in the utility room vinyl floor. We have foiled her by putting tiles down! We have to cage her when we go out, and she is two and a half years old. Some dogs are just nibblier than others, but they don't necessarily do it out of 'naughtiness'.

[/ QUOTE ]I don't know if it's naughtyness - but he does KNOW it's naughty and that he shouldn't have done it!!
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Also, Tinker cowering is possibly as much to do with your tone of voice as knowing that he has done wrong. If you were to walk in full of praise and smiles I bet he wouldn't cower! Dogs are stupid.

[/ QUOTE ]Thing is Soots - he cowers/hides before you even enter the room - he cowers before you have uttered a word....
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Gah!!!!
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That is the only logical explanation I can come up with. Dogs are a man's best friend, diamonds are a girl's best friend. Says it all!
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[/ QUOTE ]LOL!!! - Finns my best friend, Tinker at the moment ISN'T!!! - well he is when he is cged as he can do no wrong - well apart from when he p*ed out of the cage!!
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Explained your disaster to my OH last night - much to his amusement [sorry
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[/ QUOTE ]LOL!! Yeah thanks!!
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But all he could say was off with the fluffy plums on both accounts as with the FP both dogs will be competitive and try and get one up on each other!

[/ QUOTE ]LOL - OH is convinced that it will effect Tinks hunting ability!!

He answer is always, "They say it doesn't effect them, however when you have behavioural problems with a dog everyone recommends neutering, so if it doesn't effect them why would they suggest it" ... IMO he has a point!!!
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Another things if my OH dog has trashed the place I would leave it for him to clean up
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his dog his mess
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! That way your plea to say bye bye FP's might hit home a little sooner
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Hb

[/ QUOTE ]LOL - I would if it didn't mean Finn would be able to 'tred' in it!!
 
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Very good point. I am a great believer in neutering all domestic animals not specifically kept for breeding - they make better pets and it is the responsible thing to do.

[/ QUOTE ]But soots I can't understand this... you say it doesn't effect the dog - so how can it make them better pets?
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It doesn't affect their energy levels or temperament, but it is frustrating for a dog to have sexual urges and not know what they are, or have an outlet for them. It is also safer - many a dog has been involved in/caused a nasty accident when chasing a bitch on heat. It is responsible as it prevents unwanted litters, and it makes for a generally nicer, happier, more biddable pet. Also, with fewer male hormones sloshing around dogs can generally be less likely to fight with other dogs.
 
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It doesn't affect their energy levels or temperament, but it is frustrating for a dog to have sexual urges and not know what they are, or have an outlet for them.

[/ QUOTE ]Hmmm so if he is having behavioural issues - surely you would WANT to change temperament?? Hence the immediate suggestion to neuter?!
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It is also safer - many a dog has been involved in/caused a nasty accident when chasing a bitch on heat.

[/ QUOTE ]I think that is down to the owners... if a dog will not recall then it shouldn't be off the lead?! Certainly not in the vicinity of roads/cars!
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It is responsible as it prevents unwanted litters, and it makes for a generally nicer, happier, more biddable pet. Also, with fewer male hormones sloshing around dogs can generally be less likely to fight with other dogs.

[/ QUOTE ]I do understand where you are coming from but it must alter something 'temperament' wise ... therefor changing the dog slighty?!

Hmmmm
 
I suppose it depends what you mean by temperament! Neutering won't affect a dog's basic personailty, but it is likely to make the dog more biddable and generally calmer. If a dog is by nature timid, or aggressive, or very submissive, neutering won't alter that basic temperament. However, I wouldn't call being destructive part of a dog's temperament, I would call that behavioural issues, and that is where neutering can be of some help.
 
Ok here is my take on neutering - excuse the highly technical terms I will use in my argument to neuter a dog!

Any dog which isnt going to be bred from I feel should be neutered. That is my opinion.

If like you say you OH hunts his dog and feels that Tinks hunting ability will be imparied due to lack of fluffy plumness, then this is where the argument against temperament and instinct can come into play.

My GH is neutered; but it hasnt affected her instinct to chase, therefore if you apply that directly Tinks wont lose his ability to hunt as that is instinct.

Temperament wise the only effect neutering a dog can have is a reduction in its yampyness. No more shaggy poo urges, no more frustration sexually. So there fore another one of my direct applications here, if you neuter a boy dog n unfrustrated dog whom is less likely to trash.

Make sense - it does to me
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Hb
 
I'm no expert on whether castration affects hunting ability or not, but have found some interesting web extracts on the subject.

This one is from the North American Hunting Club site:

"Castration performed at the right age tends to diminish typical male behaviors like frequent urine marking, breeding-related roaming (for those who unwisely allow dogs to run free), aggression, fighting and dominance mounting of other dogs and human legs. And be assured that young Spike, your prized male, will not become a “girl.”
In both males and females, no clinical or on-the-ground evidence exists to suggest that neutering changes hunting skill, drive, stamina or scenting ability. Along with proven health benefits, neutered dogs are often—though not always—a bit more mellow and less prone to hormonal or mating-related distractions, which can lead to greater stability and consistency in the field. One other point: Sportsmen commonly voice concerns that spayed or castrated dogs will gain weight and get fat. They won’t unless you let them. With neutered and intact dogs alike, weight is controlled by an appropriate diet and balanced exercise. Any dog can become fat if it eats too much and runs too little."

This is from Gundogdoc.com:

"A few years back I had a client with two intact yellow labs, one of which developed a large testicular tumor and was sick when he came in for a visit. The owner was very reluctant to have the dog neutered over concerns of it affecting his hunting abilities. After convincing him that he wouldn’t be hunting with the dog if I didn’t take the testicle, he agreed to have me neuter the dog. A couple of months later he brought in the other dog to be neutered, as he could not believe the difference in behavior in the first dog. The dog only wanted to be with him, never attempted to roam and was actually more focused in the field. His great dog had suddenly become better. Now, I’m not saying that neutering is going to improve every dog, but there are a lot of behaviors that are mediated by testosterone and when removed, become non-existent."
 
Couldnt have put it better myself "OH NO, NOT HER AGAIN" bet thats what yo where thinkin!!!! LOL.
As dgs hunt with their nose and not there testicles, it makes no difference.
As mentioned before my OH takes all his dogs hunting, inc DEERHOUND and SALUKI, and they are both neutered..... he says it makes no difference at all.
I knew i would never breed fro my dogs..... the testicular cancer factor, is my main reason, as a nurse i see it all to often.
Dogs can often become destructive through sheer boredom and sometimes related to being seperated from owner...... I would definatley crate them both, esp your younger dog....cos he is picking up bad habits, he needs to be crated until he is out of his destructive puppy stage....... crating them gets them used to being in a secure confined area where by they have no opportunity to get into the habit of becoming destructive.....
However neutering defo helps to make them calmer and more bidable.
 
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As dgs hunt with their nose and not there testicles, it makes no difference.

[/ QUOTE ] That's a great way to put it
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!
 
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I suppose it depends what you mean by temperament! Neutering won't affect a dog's basic personailty, but it is likely to make the dog more biddable and generally calmer. If a dog is by nature timid, or aggressive, or very submissive, neutering won't alter that basic temperament. However, I wouldn't call being destructive part of a dog's temperament, I would call that behavioural issues, and that is where neutering can be of some help.

[/ QUOTE ]I just kinda think, and it is literally a THINK, that if you can take 'them' away to stop behavioural problems you are taking away something from the dog .... surely hormones are partly to do with personality?!
 
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Ok here is my take on neutering - excuse the highly technical terms I will use in my argument to neuter a dog!

Any dog which isnt going to be bred from I feel should be neutered. That is my opinion.

[/ QUOTE ]Of course... and as we are unsure if Finn or even Tinks are to be bred from we are not at present considering having the FP's removed!!
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If like you say you OH hunts his dog and feels that Tinks hunting ability will be imparied due to lack of fluffy plumness, then this is where the argument against temperament and instinct can come into play.

My GH is neutered; but it hasnt affected her instinct to chase, therefore if you apply that directly Tinks wont lose his ability to hunt as that is instinct.


[/ QUOTE ]Yup I realise instinct isn't/shouldn't be effected.. however I think OH is concerned that if certain hormones aren't produced that the dog will become lazy/fat?!

I honestly have no idea as I have never had a dog before/after castration?!
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Temperament wise the only effect neutering a dog can have is a reduction in its yampyness. No more shaggy poo urges, no more frustration sexually. So there fore another one of my direct applications here, if you neuter a boy dog n unfrustrated dog whom is less likely to trash.

Make sense - it does to me
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Hb

[/ QUOTE ]LOL yup it does make sense.. but I still THINK it must effect the dogs personality/temp?!
 
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I'm no expert on whether castration affects hunting ability or not, but have found some interesting web extracts on the subject.

This one is from the North American Hunting Club site:

"Castration performed at the right age tends to diminish typical male behaviors like frequent urine marking, breeding-related roaming (for those who unwisely allow dogs to run free), aggression, fighting and dominance mounting of other dogs and human legs. And be assured that young Spike, your prized male, will not become a “girl.”
In both males and females, no clinical or on-the-ground evidence exists to suggest that neutering changes hunting skill, drive, stamina or scenting ability. Along with proven health benefits, neutered dogs are often—though not always—a bit more mellow and less prone to hormonal or mating-related distractions, which can lead to greater stability and consistency in the field. One other point: Sportsmen commonly voice concerns that spayed or castrated dogs will gain weight and get fat. They won’t unless you let them. With neutered and intact dogs alike, weight is controlled by an appropriate diet and balanced exercise. Any dog can become fat if it eats too much and runs too little."

This is from Gundogdoc.com:

"A few years back I had a client with two intact yellow labs, one of which developed a large testicular tumor and was sick when he came in for a visit. The owner was very reluctant to have the dog neutered over concerns of it affecting his hunting abilities. After convincing him that he wouldn’t be hunting with the dog if I didn’t take the testicle, he agreed to have me neuter the dog. A couple of months later he brought in the other dog to be neutered, as he could not believe the difference in behavior in the first dog. The dog only wanted to be with him, never attempted to roam and was actually more focused in the field. His great dog had suddenly become better. Now, I’m not saying that neutering is going to improve every dog, but there are a lot of behaviors that are mediated by testosterone and when removed, become non-existent."

[/ QUOTE ]VERY interesting TGM, thanks for that.. as I have said I haveno previous experience of a before/after castration dog... however these are definatley something to show OH...

The dominance mounting other dogs is a HUGE issue for Tinks as he nearly gets himself into bother doing it... our friends HUGE male castrated boxer pinned him to the floor and nearly took his head off as he was so fed up with the constant 'sh*gging' lurcher!!!

Finn as yet is too youg to castrate anywho... however Tinks is not - I shall suggest again to OH but fear it will be faling on deaf ears!!
 
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Couldnt have put it better myself "OH NO, NOT HER AGAIN" bet thats what yo where thinkin!!!! LOL.

[/ QUOTE ]LOL!! Not at all.. it's good to have lots of different opinions etc.. that's why we post after all!!
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As dgs hunt with their nose and not there testicles, it makes no difference.

[/ QUOTE ]LOL - good point... TBH I'm not sure my OH is talking sense.. however I guess experience/word of mouth is bad press for some procedures in some circles!?
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As mentioned before my OH takes all his dogs hunting, inc DEERHOUND and SALUKI, and they are both neutered..... he says it makes no difference at all.
I knew i would never breed fro my dogs..... the testicular cancer factor, is my main reason, as a nurse i see it all to often.

[/ QUOTE ]I will certainly be doing lots of research on TC and presenting to OH!!
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Dogs can often become destructive through sheer boredom and sometimes related to being seperated from owner...... I would definatley crate them both, esp your younger dog....cos he is picking up bad habits, he needs to be crated until he is out of his destructive puppy stage....... crating them gets them used to being in a secure confined area where by they have no opportunity to get into the habit of becoming destructive.....
However neutering defo helps to make them calmer and more bidable.

[/ QUOTE ]Finn is only 5months old so too young to castrate? (I think - don't they have to be over 6months?! - Not done much research TBH!)

Tinker is well in age to castrate!

The are both crated as of last night... Tinker in the actual cage... as he's smallest and has plenty of room and Finn is in the Puppy Play Pen which is slightly bigger so has room to stretch... they came out at lunchtime and greeted me with kisses and waggly tails!! They had been good boys!!
 
just to add that I've had both my JRT's castrated and they are absolutely no different than they were before. I had them done mainly to stop them being stolen as they had both been 'eyed' up on occasion however would I would have had them done anyway..neither have put on weight because of it and Spotty still shags everything that moves..or doesn't for that matter!!!
 
No, hormones are more to do with behaviour. A bit like PMT will alter a woman's behaviour, but not her basic personality. Do be aware that once a pet is bred from they can become quite antisocial in their habits, and intenstly focussed on their new career.
 
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