2 horses die in paddock at Newbury

brighteyes said:
So it's just me who thinks that the life of a racehorse is precarious generally. Yes, today was literally a shocking occurrence, but nothing like as awful as the end to probably the majority of racehorses, but especially the failed ones... Their end, to me, is far more upsetting and outrageous.
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Sadly true in some cases however I have some friends who breed and race and all there horses get the best life possible and most are found jobs and loving homes after or if their racing career isnt a success, importantly they try to make the best of the limited number they breed ...so its not all bad.
 
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Oh be quiet with the anti-racing cr*p, this thread isnt about that, it's about a tragic accident, doesn't matter where it happened, if it had happened on a street you wouldn't have said "Well, that's sad, but isn't it sadder than people continue riding on the roads with all those risks and the amount of horses who meet slow deaths after being hit by cars"? No, you wouldn't, you'd have shut up and agreed it was very sad. If you want to moan, yet again, about how awful it is that people race horses then go start another thread. And, FYI, a horse who breaks and neck or back will die immediately in most cases, and those who suffer a bad injury will be put down immediately. They do not hang about if a horse is in pain, believe it or not, those involved in racing are not sadistic monsters, horses are their number one priority.

I am shocked at what happened yesterday, apparently it was a horrific thing to witness and I'm sorry that those horses met that death, and that so many members of the public saw and heard it. Just a tragic accident. RIP horses.
 
I actually missed the event itself, but that was because I was out of the room. I did see the re-run, when my OH called me in. Did the cameras stay on the horses up until their demise?

What I don't understand, is that whilst one of them lost the temporary use of its back end, they seemed to regain their feet. I would have thought that if a horse had a shock, and enough to kill it, then it would have gone virtually straight down, on the floor. How come they seemed to regain their composure, only to die afterwards?

The other point is that it seemed that it was only when the grooms, or vets, touched the animals, that they felt any sort of shock, and even then it must have been minimal, because according to one of the vets interviewed, one of the grooms tried to hold one of the stricken horses down. He wouldn't have been able to do that with a serious belt, I wouldn't have thought.

All very strange, and sickening for those who were present. A sad day for everyone concerned, but how well the officials at Newbury conducted themselves.

Alec.
 
To answer Alec, a human can display this as well, the initial shock send the heart in arythmia (sp?) whioch in some cases can be instantly fatal and in others can linger for minutes before the heart shuts down.

This is why some people survive a heart attwck and others dont.

Please give the anti-racing a rest please, this happened to occur at a race meet but it could have easily bee a BD/BA meet when a horse was in a warm up ring with leccy underneath. Have some respect.

RIP horses such a shame to happen in any circumstance :(
 
teagreen

I will not go on about what happens on course BUT have you yourself been there with a horse that has fallen at a fence. IF not please keep quiet.

The horses that died yesterday did in a very very short time.
 
Paulineh - please start another thread if you want to discuss the good and bad of racing. Not here. I HAVE been with a horse that was PTS on course - a horrible experience for the owner and lad but it was dealt with quickly and efficiently by course staff and vets. There was no undue suffering. If the same had happened while the horse was turned out in the field, the suffering would have been far far worse. No adrenaline and no vets on standby - I know which Id prefer.
 
Alec Swan said:
What I don't understand, is that whilst one of them lost the temporary use of its back end, they seemed to regain their feet. I would have thought that if a horse had a shock, and enough to kill it, then it would have gone virtually straight down, on the floor. How come they seemed to regain their composure, only to die afterwards?
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Adrenalin. I've seen a horse collapse with a heart attack, then regain his feet and gallop down a hill before dying :(

And I have been sitting on my horse waiting to go xc when he received a massive shock from an electric cable hidden in wet grass, fortunately not massive enough to kill him, and I felt nothing at all.

It's quite common these days for horses to race in steel shoes and not have plates fitted every time they race.
 
glenruby said:
Paulineh - please start another thread if you want to discuss the good and bad of racing. Not here. I HAVE been with a horse that was PTS on course - a horrible experience for the owner and lad but it was dealt with quickly and efficiently by course staff and vets. There was no undue suffering. If the same had happened while the horse was turned out in the field, the suffering would have been far far worse. No adrenaline and no vets on standby - I know which Id prefer.
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I have no intention of starting another thread.

i work at the races and was there yesterday and saw what happened and are out on course many times dealing with fallers.

My reply was in response to what has been said already.
 
... nothing like as awful as the end to probably the majority of racehorses, but especially the failed ones... Their end, to me, is far more upsetting and outrageous.
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Because nowhere else do horses get hurt or die, never in the field, out on the roads, or in their stables. Never happens, ever. Only on the racecourse....

(And I took the name off the quoted post because I'm not having a go at the poster, just the sentiment, I get sick of hearing about how cruel racing is, as though no other horse in the world ever died or was injured)
 
Ah, you see, nobody is reading my post as it was intended.

Utterly dreadful for this to happen. No two ways about it, and upsetting to see two beautiful, fit, well-cared for animals lose their lives in surroundings where sudden death is unexpected and very disturbing for all to see. Yes, definitely. No argument from me.

But why the outrage? Chances are that had either, or both, of these horses come unplaced and started their downward spiral, their untimely demise is almost as certain.

I have no issue with responsible breeding and training. I have a friend whose son does just that. If a horse dies in the field, having a jolly hoon, racing over jumps and falls and has its medical needs promptly met, or has a heart attack under any other circumstances where the horse is cooperating and having fun - no problem at all.

I truly hope their suffering was minimal and am certain the cause will be investigated thoroughly there and everywhere else where this might possibly occur. And that's all to the good.

Just wish the nation would say a silent prayer in acknowledgement of those racehorses whose deaths have no other reason except that they weren't good enough.

As an aside, I attended a human first aid course but focussing specifically on equine related accidents and one of them was accidental electrocution (death by electric current) of the horse. It has been known to happen beneath 'faulty' electricity pylons in fields and on roads, with the rider being completely unaware of anything untoward. The horse (apparently) feels the current and may begin behaving very erratically for no apparent reason, before crashing to the ground. I would imagine in a similar way to how they sometimes behave when experiencing a heart attack?
 
paulineh said:
teagreen

I will not go on about what happens on course BUT have you yourself been there with a horse that has fallen at a fence. IF not please keep quiet.

The horses that died yesterday did in a very very short time.
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Yes, I have, many times over the years so no, I won't be quiet thank you. Maybe they do it differently up at the Northern tracks I've been involved with, but whenever a horse has been injured it has been caught as swiftly as possible and immediately restrained - help is on the way by then because everyone has seen what has happened. In the case of obvious, catastrohpic injuries, the horse is immediately PTS. Ok, so a broken leg doesn't cause instant death like being electrocuted, but the horses are put out of pain as soon as possible. I have sadly seen some thoroughly distressing things during my time with racing, but they've always been dealt with as quickly as possible.

Even more distressing are the few times I've seen similar terrible injuries occur at non-racing events where this is no vet provision. At least in racing it is quick, or if they are hurt but can be saved, they are given excellent vet treatment on the spot.

Brighteyes, I do see what you're saying, but I don't think it's appropriate on this thread and not confined to the racing industry - I also have an involvement in welsh ponies and the cruelty that goes on within this industry through overbreeding is just awful, hundreds of foals being churned out for no purpose and who will meet a grim fate. Same in several areas of the equine industry, as I'm sure you well know. So it's not just racing, and I hate people banging on about how rubbish racing is and giving it a bad press. The owner of one of the horses yesterday was in tears because he loved the horse so much.
 
glenruby said:
Paulineh - please start another thread if you want to discuss the good and bad of racing. Not here. I HAVE been with a horse that was PTS on course - a horrible experience for the owner and lad but it was dealt with quickly and efficiently by course staff and vets. There was no undue suffering. If the same had happened while the horse was turned out in the field, the suffering would have been far far worse. No adrenaline and no vets on standby - I know which Id prefer.
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you're wasting your typing time on PaulineH. She's seen it all, done it all and much better than most of us...didn't you know?
 
paulineh said:
I agree with the above

To loss a horse in such circumstances as that at Newbury yesterday is very sad. At least those horses died quickly unlike an accident (Broken neck, back or leg) on the course, while the vets make a decision, they are in pain.

As I left the race course last night the Southern Electricity Board were digging up the parade ring.
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I wonder if you are in the right job if you believe that racing is cruel. perhaps you have witnessed some terrible accidents but generally those that require PTS are dealt with very quickly expecially when you compare them to "pet" horses who have to wait for a vet to be called and drive to yard/scene of accident.

Yesterday was a pure accident and I intended to just pass on the news with this thread and not jump onto the bandwagon of the ethics of racing.
 
Fairynuff

I do not know it all and I see you and your mate have not been around for a while.

Double_choc_lab

I really do think that you should read carefully before making such statements. At no stage did I say that racing was cruel I only stated that the 2 horses that died in front of me yesterday died quickly without a vet having to make the decision. It was awful for every one that witnessed it.

When I horse falls be it national hunt or flat I care that the horses are alright.

Maybe when you and Fairynuff have had a little more experience of life you may know a little more than you do.
 
brighteyes said:
So it's just me who thinks that the life of a racehorse is precarious generally. Yes, today was literally a shocking occurrence, but nothing like as awful as the end to probably the majority of racehorses, but especially the failed ones... Their end, to me, is far more upsetting and outrageous.
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PaulineH - this was the quote you agreed with. You know my experience of life do you - how interesting. Have you policed the inner city for several years and have oveer 50 years general "life" experience - hmm.

I unfortunately have seen horses have fatal accidents/falls and I know where I would prefer them to be if the inevitable happens - on the track with a vet in attendance.

I do wonder if the jockeys you treat know that you feel their mounts ends are outrageous.
 
glenruby said:
Paulineh - please start another thread if you want to discuss the good and bad of racing. Not here. I HAVE been with a horse that was PTS on course - a horrible experience for the owner and lad but it was dealt with quickly and efficiently by course staff and vets. There was no undue suffering. If the same had happened while the horse was turned out in the field, the suffering would have been far far worse. No adrenaline and no vets on standby - I know which Id prefer.
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Don't want to prolong the good and bad of racing aspect but just to say a friends mare who was grazing with us decided to jump a hedge and didn't make it. She broke her neck and heaven knows how long she lay there until she was found, it could have been up to 3 hours. :( Doesn't even compare with the quick end horses have that are pts on course.
 
As this has now got out of hand i think we should go back to the title about the horses that died yesterday.

As for life YES I have had plenty of it well over 50 years. Seeing the good and bad sides of death.

I do believe that many ex race horses end their days in some back field not being cared for because they have out lived their useful life.

This also happens to the ordinary horse or pony passed on and on because people can not be bothered to allow them to live their lines out in peace.

As usual reading something and then reading it differently to what is written.
 
teagreen said:
Brighteyes, did you just get an email read out on ATR? I swear what they just read out what exactly what you've just said here :D
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No - what's ATR? :confused:

And in response to the poster who said the owner was in tears, why should they not have been? My words should not detract from the undisputed tragedy of what happened in full view of many thousands. I just find the coverage and hoo haa ironic.
 
Double_choc_lab said:
Originally Posted by brighteyes
So it's just me who thinks that the life of a racehorse is precarious generally. Yes, today was literally a shocking occurrence, but nothing like as awful as the end to probably the majority of racehorses, but especially the failed ones... Their end, to me, is far more upsetting and outrageous.

PaulineH - this was the quote you agreed with. You know my experience of life do you - how interesting. Have you policed the inner city for several years and have oveer 50 years general "life" experience - hmm.

I unfortunately have seen horses have fatal accidents/falls and I know where I would prefer them to be if the inevitable happens - on the track with a vet in attendance.

I do wonder if the jockeys you treat know that you feel their mounts ends are outrageous.
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Eh? I don't get this - Paulineh isn't talking about the same thing as I am. For the record, I don't think racing is at all cruel and those who race successfully live an enviable life whilst they are doing so. Those injured in the course of that 'life' are also attended with unrivalled care and professionalism IMO/E and possibly more so than our everyday horses.
 
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One thought that has occurred to me is that thank God no jockeys had already been legged up or this whole tragedy could have been even more awful than it was.
 
Paulineh:

There are risks involved in any equestrian sport, and any other sport for that matter. You take those risks as part of your sport.

If I was galloping a horse at full speed, over fences, then I would see the risk of it or me, falling and dying, as an acceptable risk.

However, you do not expect a horse to be electrocuted while strolling around in the relative safety of a parade ring, and that is why people are so horrified that this happened.

If a Formula 1 driver died of electrocution while in the pit having a team chat before the start of a race, I wouldn't dream of saying that it could have been much worse had he crashed and died on the racetrack.

That theoretical driver should have been safe in the pits, like those horses should have been safe in the parade ring.
It could have so easily been a child that was killed yesterday, and while I am saddened at the nature of the horses deaths, I am more concerned that it should never have happened at all.
 
ATR = At the Races a pay to view racing channel

This is a really bad accident that should not have happened, will be interesting to read the investigation report on this, but apparently this is not as rare an occurrence as we would like, I am told by someone who knows about these things that sometimes this happens with underground cables that are damaged, vary scary stuff as there are a lot of them around these days right under our feet!

Re the Racing is cruel cry, if there was no racing these horses would not have been born in the first place, yes there is wastage and yes some end up in totally the wrong hands after their racing days, but so do horses from other breeds and these horses do not usually see cruel treatment or neglect until they leave racing, what does that say about some in the general horse owning population!

You don't see the carcasses of TB foals dumped by the road or looking like a barely walking skeleton, nor do you see horses from the general horse population retrained and virtually given away to good homes!!!
 
B_2_B said:
I agree with everything Dubs just said.
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.......and so do I, for just this once!! :rolleyes:

For those who would attempt to offer their credentials and experience, this thread, as others have said, has sod all to to with those who would promote themselves, it was offered as the thought provoking question, "How, on earth, could this happen?" A desperately sad event. Nothing more, or less.

Alec.
 
paulineh said:
As this has now got out of hand i think we should go back to the title about the horses that died yesterday.

As for life YES I have had plenty of it well over 50 years. Seeing the good and bad sides of death.

I do believe that many ex race horses end their days in some back field not being cared for because they have out lived their useful life.

This also happens to the ordinary horse or pony passed on and on because people can not be bothered to allow them to live their lines out in peace.

As usual reading something and then reading it differently to what is written.
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As far as I read (and I am no-ones mate BTW) it was you and a few others who took it into the anti racing debate.

Poor horses I was watching the footage today and I have to say I cried.
 
Alec Swan said:
.......and so do I, for just this once!! :rolleyes:

For those who would attempt to offer their credentials and experience, this thread, as others have said, has sod all to to with those who would promote themselves, it was offered as the thought provoking question, "How, on earth, could this happen?" A desperately sad event. Nothing more, or less.

Alec.
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It happened because it did. Through mistakes and tragedies lessons are learned and solutions are found and applied. I feel so sorry far ALL concerned and all who witnessed it. My heart goes out to the lasses and lads who lost their charge and to the owners who have just lost their dream.
 
Yesterday was indeed a very black day for racing and all those connected with the horses that died and were affected at Newbury. A bad day too at Leopordstown and Warwick. I feel saddened for the horses and those that cared for them.

I have read through all the posts and 1 other person mentioned that this terrible accident should perhaps be a wakeup call to the organisers of other horse events. I have been to many BE events where I have seen what look to me like electric cables above ground. At the big 3 day events it is much worse due to the number of trade stands. Horses do get loose and with studs in I have often wondered how there hasn't been a similar accident. Let's hope every care will be taken in the future.

To those who are so anti racing, yes, the sport can be cruel to horses but then what disapline isn't when uncaring owners/riders are involved? I've seen serious abuse at dressage,eventing, showjumping , Pony Club, showing, carriage driving, you name it. Is it not just a cruel for the "happy hacker brigade" to over feed and under exercise their horses resulting in lamanitis? or horses spending most of their lives in stables doing nothing because their owners have overhorsed themselves and are too scared to ride them? I sold a good but tricky horse to some idiot of a woman who proudly told me she had her AI. She couldn't ride 1 side of the horse but bought it anyway despite me suggesting it was unwise, but oh she had her AI and I didn't!!!!!. I discovered 6 months on it was at a dealers yard a bag of bones. She'd obviously just turned it into a field in the winter and left it. "He who is without sin .....". ALL horse owners need to take a good look at themselves and honestly think just how good a life we give our own horses before vilifying all horse racing.
 
silu said:
Yesterday was indeed a very black day for racing and all those connected with the horses that died and were affected at Newbury. A bad day too at Leopordstown and Warwick. I feel saddened for the horses and those that cared for them.

I have read through all the posts and 1 other person mentioned that this terrible accident should perhaps be a wakeup call to the organisers of other horse events. I have been to many BE events where I have seen what look to me like electric cables above ground. At the big 3 day events it is much worse due to the number of trade stands. Horses do get loose and with studs in I have often wondered how there hasn't been a similar accident. Let's hope every care will be taken in the future.

To those who are so anti racing, yes, the sport can be cruel to horses but then what disapline isn't when uncaring owners/riders are involved? I've seen serious abuse at dressage,eventing, showjumping , Pony Club, showing, carriage driving, you name it. Is it not just a cruel for the "happy hacker brigade" to over feed and under exercise their horses resulting in lamanitis? or horses spending most of their lives in stables doing nothing because their owners have overhorsed themselves and are too scared to ride them? I sold a good but tricky horse to some idiot of a woman who proudly told me she had her AI. She couldn't ride 1 side of the horse but bought it anyway despite me suggesting it was unwise, but oh she had her AI and I didn't!!!!!. I discovered 6 months on it was at a dealers yard a bag of bones. She'd obviously just turned it into a field in the winter and left it. "He who is without sin .....". ALL horse owners need to take a good look at themselves and honestly think just how good a life we give our own horses before vilifying all horse racing.
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This post has put so much into perspective, I also have the bag of bones racehorse, passed from pillar to post, misunderstood and abused by people that THINK they know how to to deal with him. No he wont go in a bloody outline, he is 16 and wants an easy life, to go and enjoy himself be it with his old head in the sky!! So what. I love him!!
 
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