2* Table collapsing

[Pigeon]

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?st...13:mf_story_key.3575442073958640208&__tn__=*s

Hope link will work for you, I'm on my phone which I don't really know how to use! I thought this was very cool and interesting to see.

The one thing I did wonder about was the jump increasing in width, say if the horse hit it with it's hinds, and it collapsed, would the far side of the table interfere with the landing? Maybe they could put the last two panels on a hinge, so they just folded down when the top part of the table came forward.

But yes, fascinating piece of engineering!

 

[stencilface]

That looks pretty good!

And far from being a good piece of engineering, it looks pretty simple and I can't believe it hasn't been done before?

The increase in width probably isn't so much of an issue as the horses will just slide off it, preventing a rotational fall is a great thing. Providing of course it can be easily put back up, as horses hitting it with their hinds may well be more common!

 

[ester]

It does rather look like any horse that trails it's hind legs is going to trigger it though? Could be a lot of people with penalties that day.

 

[PorkChop]

Saw this earlier, it would be brilliant if it did work, as in, was not triggered by hind legs.

 

[Girlracer]

I saw this on Facebook, it's very clever. I wonder how penalties will work, because if a horse rubs it behind, which is quite common say jumping into water? And it collapses would that be penalised? I Can't quite see how it will work, but any safety improvements have got to be a good thing, especially with rotationals being so dangerous.

 

[LeannePip]

I dont think it would be triggered by hind legs, the person pushing is putting in a fair bit of force, i dont think that would be equaled by trailing legs. I also dont think it would interfere with the landing either the front legs would presumablly be clear and moving forwards, the width of the jump only increases by a couple of inches.

Its great and cant believe its taken this long to engineer something like this that looks relatively simple

 

[ycbm]

[SUB][/SUB]I don't think it will work. It will definitely be triggered by trailing hind legs. Worse, if the horse comes down on the back edge with the force downwards, and not enough forwards, it will not collapse and it will not prevent a rotation fall. Very often in rotation falls the horse almost gets it's front legs clear and then pushes backwards[/I ]against the fence as it rotates. Again, this will not trigger. It must collapse with a downward and a backward impact. Needs a rethink from a real engineer.

 

[popsdosh]

Sorry the force excerted to trip the mechanism is far to light that design will cause more accidents than if not collapsing. The way it collapses has huge potential to actually bring down a horse that would normally stay up.

BE have done a lot of work on collapsible table fences and no design so far has not increased the risk to horses. When the Dunlop fence was taken around events I believe it was established that 650kg was the normal force excerted by trailing legs on average this is why that figure was used to design frangible pins.

 

[applecart14]

I think this is interesting although I was unable to open the link.

Research has shown that a horse that hits a solid obstacle below the knee will scrabble over the obstacle, but those that hit the obstacle above the knee are the ones who will have a slow rotational fall.

Partner works at a local riding club as Head Groundsman and enquired about the frangible pins for XC jumps i.e. logs and trakeners, etc but they were (at the time we saw them on a stand at Badminton Horse Trials)very expensive - some £500 for a single fence. I know you can't put a price on a life, but if you are riding club with limited funds, you can't possibly afford to deck out a XC with these things.

Sounds from all your descriptions like the person who made this jump in the video should patent it!

 

[Nicnac]

[SUB][/SUB]I don't think it will work. Needs a rethink from a real engineer.

Really?

http://mimsafenewera.com/ This system has been around for some time and approved by BE from this year. https://www.britisheventing.com/asp-net/news/item.aspx?id=6097

 

[ycbm]

Really?

http://mimsafenewera.com/ This system has been around for some time and approved by BE from this year. https://www.britisheventing.com/asp-net/news/item.aspx?id=6097

Yup. I think they are mad if they are going to use that design. I would not jump it. I've shown it to a charted engineer who knows how horses jump and fall and he thinks it's an accident waiting to happen in at least three ways. Horses usually fall at tables because they don't get their front legs clear of the back edge to land not because they hit the front. That's why flat tables were removed from competition after killing a disproportionate number of riders, and they now have a back edge higher than the front so the horse can clearly see how wide the fence is.

Does anyone know what the penalty for triggering it is, because it's pretty obvious that it will go if a horse drags it's hind legs over it?


PS the sites you pointto don't seem to have anything to do with this table? The BE approval is for pins, not this table?

 

[ester]

No, they have the mechanism I think, but yes BE is not going to use it on tables.

http://mimsafenewera.com/galleries

their full fb site (instead of the mobile link above) https://www.facebook.com/mimsafenewerasafetyclips/

 

[popsdosh]

No, they have the mechanism I think, but yes BE is not going to use it on tables.

http://mimsafenewera.com/galleries

their full fb site (instead of the mobile link above) https://www.facebook.com/mimsafenewerasafetyclips/

The clips are being used by some course builders however the tables are not . From experience although the clips are significantly cheaper than pins they do appear to weaken a lot over a few knocks and eventually fail with surprising ease.

 

[ester]

Yes, I said not tables.

 

[VRIN]

I am not an engineer but that seemed to require very little force from the human to make it collapse..

 

[noname]

I hope some thorough testing has been done rather than just one person giving it a shove, which is nothing like a horse hiring the fence. I hope both logic and science have been applied and decent testing carried out. The test shouldn't be a horse or rider dying.

Good to see people trying out ideas! Looks like it will be good for certain types of fall and maybe not others. Bit like an air jacket....!!!!!