2013 FEI Eventing Rules--anyone seen them?

ElleJS said:
So for a CIC** do we think you now need a CCI1* or would a CIC* be sufficient? Have a horse that really really would not benefit from running round a CCI* for the sake of a 2* qualification!!! that will be a bummer of so!!!
The FEI really aren't giving much warning. Fair enough if these came into effect 2014.
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It wouldn't surprise me if these qualification rules don't come into force till 2014 as early in the document they do state that some aspects won't be implemented till then. This would be the obvious bit to delay, for all the reasons stated...

That said, when they first introduced QRs they did it with no warning over the winter and a horse that had, I thought, been 3* qualified having gone clear XC round a tough CCI** that autumn which would up until then have qualified him, suddenly wasn't anymore as he'd had loads of SJs down due to his poor feet hurting :(
 
ElleJS said:
So for a CIC** do we think you now need a CCI1* or would a CIC* be sufficient? Have a horse that really really would not benefit from running round a CCI* for the sake of a 2* qualification!!! that will be a bummer of so!!!
The FEI really aren't giving much warning. Fair enough if these came into effect 2014.
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I'm in exactly the same boat as you, having done one CIC**, I now look like having to do a 1* of some description....I think that the CIC* would do it....but then would need 2 x CIC** to qualify for a CCI**, ....but if I do a CCI*, would only need the one CIC**, but it would be much more expensive to do the 3DE...aaargh!!!.

As I live in the south-east...think I might try heading to France....probably be cheaper/easier...any French speakers want to come....?
 
popsdosh said:
They have not been published yet as some were only approved on Thursday last week .Some of the changes will not be used until 2014 anyhow.There is a doc showing the changes sanctioned on Thursday on the website the major one being that at black flagged alternatives you may take any route you wish in combinations ie you do not need to stick to the black flagged route as if I am correct in my understanding all fences were an alternative is present will have black lines on to stop confusion.
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The black flag rules have only changed in that you can no longer circle the final element. You have always been allowed to change from one route to another.

TwoPair said:
I may be getting this wrong, but isn't there a slight contradiction?...

Page 4 implies you cannot be a category D athlete and compete at CIC** - which means you must be category A, B, or C...to be category C you have to have 20 MER's at two star level or above....But you can't do two star as a category D rider...so how do you become a category C rider without being able to do two star....?
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A category D rider needs to have an MER at 1* level as well as the national requirements for CIC 2*, all other categories just need the national requirements.

ElleJS said:
So for a CIC** do we think you now need a CCI1* or would a CIC* be sufficient? Have a horse that really really would not benefit from running round a CCI* for the sake of a 2* qualification!!! that will be a bummer of so!!!
The FEI really aren't giving much warning. Fair enough if these came into effect 2014.
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I was told any 1* would be sufficient.

Young riders shouldn't really suffer as the YR championships is at 2* level so it will not prevent them from being selected. A rider with a new horse probably has not got enough experience at a high enough level to go round a CCI 3* without developing a partnership. The FEI are not punishing the less experienced riders or making the sport elitist but trying to find a way of protecting riders from themselves and their ambitions. In the MER before, it was suggested that, just because you had the qualifications, you were not necessarily ready for the level. This was not sufficient to stop people going up the levels without enough experience so they have had to tighten the requirements for the less experienced without forcing the experienced pros to do more. They will be far more inclined to keep a horse to a level for a bit longer as they are aware of what is needed to go up.

The reverse qualification has been trialled in Australia. If a horse is eliminated in 2 consecutive runs at a level then it has to get an MER at the lower level before going back up. If the rider has 2 horses reversed then their fast track qualifications are taken away for a year. The categories are over an 8 year rolling period which is quite a long time.
 
oldvic said:
The reverse qualification has been trialled in Australia. If a horse is eliminated in 2 consecutive runs at a level then it has to get an MER at the lower level before going back up. If the rider has 2 horses reversed then their fast track qualifications are taken away for a year. The categories are over an 8 year rolling period which is quite a long time.
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Thanks for clarifying, I did think it was the same idea. Personally, I can't see why someone would have an issue with that - although I guess it will make for extra bookkeeping and expenditure, it seems a reasonable way of making sure people don't keep taking kicks at the can past the point of good sense.
 
oldvic said:
The FEI are not punishing the less experienced riders or making the sport elitist but trying to find a way of protecting riders from themselves and their ambitions. In the MER before, it was suggested that, just because you had the qualifications, you were not necessarily ready for the level. This was not sufficient to stop people going up the levels without enough experience so they have had to tighten the requirements for the less experienced without forcing the experienced pros to do more. They will be far more inclined to keep a horse to a level for a bit longer as they are aware of what is needed to go up a level.
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I totally agree with this.

And thanks for clarifying re RQs, another sensible idea, I can think of one particular example this would have been perfect for...
 
I do think, just as in lower levels, there are far fewer "social and logistical controls" on people eventing now, so more people moving quickly up the ladder without the background and modifying influences that used to keep people in check. It's a hard call, legislating for human behaviour.

Plus we used to have a much higher tolerance for people getting squished and, in the days of long format, horses breaking down!

As is often the case with the FEI, it seems likely they won't invoke these guidelines as speedily or thoroughly as originally indicated, although it will end up in the same place.
 
QUOTE" The FEI are not punishing the less experienced riders or making the sport elitist but trying to find a way of protecting riders from themselves and their ambitions. In the MER before, it was suggested that, just because you had the qualifications, you were not necessarily ready for the level. This was not sufficient to stop people going up the levels without enough experience so they have had to tighten the requirements for the less experienced without forcing the experienced pros to do more. They will be far more inclined to keep a horse to a level for a bit longer as they are aware of what is needed to go up." QUOTE



I think few people would take issue with what the FEI are trying to achieve, however I believe that where they lose credibility is their insistance that this experience can only be gained in FEI classes.

Are they really saying that a BE intermediate is not at least as good as, if not of higher level, than an FEI 1* class, & similarly that a BE Advanced is not more than equivalent to a 2*.

If they allowed these more accessible options as alternative qualification routes, I think there would be far fewer objections.,& the sport could be seen as more inclusive.
 
Perhaps the problem is the FEI only has control over those levels. In the UK I would completely agree with your point, particularly since the it's mostly the same riders, horses, officials etc taking part at both National and International events, so performances and scores could reasonably be comparable. I'm not sure you could say the same for other regions though - technically the levels should be the same but I'm not sure it always works that way in practice.
 
You have to remember how lucky we are in this country with the facilities. However the FEI is the governing body of the sport worldwide, not just in Britain, and has to legislate as such. In many parts of the world - even in quite high profile countries - the courses don't match up to the equivalent over here and therefore the relevant levels in international competitions. Also, an intermediate is what would be classed in many countries as a CNC 2*, not a requirement for competing at 1*.
 
Snap. :)

There is also a much wider range of courses in other countries. An Intermediate on the East Coast of the US, drawing from a deep pool of International riders, can fill its divisions even if it's the top end of tough. An Intermediate at a small event in the middle of the country would struggle to fill a tough Intermediate, let alone have any finishers! This may not be "fair" to people in less populated areas but such is life. Making it all and only FEI means people cannot "sneak" in to higher levels by going to softer competitions and just getting lucky or relying on their horse's innocence. I don't mean to insult people who aren't at the epicentre of the epicentre of the sport by saying they are less able but I do suspect a few people in that category are the ones people watch at FEI events and wonder how on earth they got there.

I suspect this is even more of a problem as the sport gets more globalised. It's true, anyone with real aspirations is going to end up in one of the hubs, but the issue is their first trip to the hub! You don't want someone showing up for a strong 3* or even a 2* without a pretty good idea what they are getting themselves into.
 
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I fully understand the worldwide variation in standards, hence my specification of BE events. I know we are very lucky in this country.....but could not some events be categorised as CNCs & used as a second tier of qualifications....surely this would help woldwide.
 
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As an international body you have to make the rules as such. You cannot make it different for different countries. BE, their courses and rules are nothing to do with the FEI or riders based in other countries. You wouldn't like it very much if they stipulated that a few courses in Germany only could be used for qualification. They are, after all, the most successful nation at the moment.
 
I sympathise with your POV. However, if you look in section 519.1 they have given themselves some scope to allow the use of specific national competitions if the NF nominates them, and various other criteria are met (including having an FEI official present at the event - more expense!) so it may be that some/many events at Intermediate and above in the UK will be nominated to count for qualification in this way.
 
So if a horse ran cic** last year would it have to go beck to do some sort of 1* this year? Said horse was going to go 2* again this season sadly after clear Xc at cci ** had to withdraw for final trot up so did not complete so lost out on 3* QR thanks
 
quizzie said:
I think the problem is that if you have not done a 1*,but went directly in to a CIC**, you have to go back to do a 1*, which may well not be ideal for a big jumping, forward horse.

Plus the emphasis on FEI qulifications (rather than being able to use national classes for some of the qualifications) will mean it becomes very difficult in terms of getting enough runs at FEI where there are fewer events available. It will mean more balloting of FEI classes, which also entail a significantly greater entry fee, often exacerbated by having to travel further & stable...even more cost!.
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This will affect me too....I wasn't planning on doing a CCI* on my horse, but to save the money and do a CIC** and then a CCI2*. But it now looks like I have to fork out all that money to do a CCI* first??!
 
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Saratoga said:
This will affect me too....I wasn't planning on doing a CCI* on my horse, but to save the money and do a CIC** and then a CCI2*. But it now looks like I have to fork out all that money to do a CCI* first??!
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You can either do a CCI* and a CIC** or do 2 x CIC** I believe?

Personally I think it seems reasonable, yes it may be more expensive and take longer to get up through the levels, but if it stops people competing at a level before they are ready it can only be a good thing. Eventing is a dangerous sport and rules and regs have to be in place to make it as safe as possible, without taking the essence of competition away. Better to increase qualifications than dumb down to allow people to get round...

I do agree that it would be nice if we could achieve qualifications at BE events, not just FEI events though, as BE is significantly cheaper, and in this country, is the same standard, but I do see the point that that would become harder to police in some countries...
 
BE can apply to the FEI for a competition to count for qualification. It has to be before it takes place and all results are then sent to the FEI for them to record. It won't just be a case of people writing in and saying can a result count at xxxxx event.
 
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