Regandal
Well-Known Member
Lots of barefoot horses in full work. Have a look at the Rockley farm blogs.
2nd neurectomy
- Thread starter Echryss
- Start date
Lots of barefoot horses in full work. Have a look at the Rockley farm blogs.
Regandal
Well-Known Member
ester
Not slacking multitasking
So certainly I and ycbm (probably others too, lots of us here!) are very pro barefoot people but I wouldn't be going that route from the information given.
Echryss
Member
Seriously? I didnt know. Ill definately check. Some hope in the tunnel.. .
SEL
Well-Known Member
I'm still not sure where the first neurectomy was - in that right fore?
Regandal
Well-Known Member
I read it as the horse has had a n & f for hind psd, now diagnosed as having navicular in at least one front foot.
SEL
Well-Known Member
That's what I was wondering! So the PSD is no longer an issue (we think) so now the problem is navicular in the right fore. So any further neurectomy (not that I am suggesting it) would actually be on a different leg???
I would also caution a neurectomy. I was on a yard with a mare that had an abscess but because she had no feeling in that foot by the time anyone realised there was an issue her entire leg was hot and swollen - she couldn't be saved and they lost her and the foal she was carrying.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
I've read again and not 100% sure!
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
What country is this? Is this because your vets are very adverse to PTS for what we here we call ‘ethical’ reasons? There is another poster on here who has been up against that.
Echryss
Member
Yes right front foot. The one that has the problem now
Echryss
Member
Guys, sorry. I am bad with terms, english is not my first language. So the neurectomy was on the right front foot, and it needs to be repeated there exactly because the nerves grew back. So says the vet. He answered, he said that the horse is pretty competent to do well, since his xrays are not bad.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
you're not bad with terms at all! I think people just want to double check the situ 
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
X rays are only rarely the full story with lameness originating inside the foot. It's normally caused by a soft tissue problem which doesn't show on x ray. I personally don't think the first neurectomy was ethical, when done to remove pain from an injury without removing the cause of the injury. I certainly wouldn't support choosing to do a second one. Do you have any evidence that the nerve has regrown? Is it possible that there is soft tissue damage which doesn't show on x ray which is now just so bad that the horse is lame mechanically and not through pain?
I'm sorry this has been a shock to find out, but numbing a horse's foot is not, imo, defensible.
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doodle
Well-Known Member
Yes I did read the entire post and I still think I wouldn’t be doing a 2nd op. I wouldn’t have allowed the first one but I know that wasn’t up to you. My vet dosnt feel it is ethical and won’t do them he will pts instead. As said Xrays don’t show soft tissue damage which I would imagine by now is massive.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
The trouble is that even if the vet doesn't think the degeneration of both the coffin joint and navicular bone (the latter strongly likely to be associated with issues in the DDFT too) is 'bad' that is two areas of issues and even if you are looking at a purely boney issue not soft tissue the amount of change on an xray doesn't always correlate with the impact it is having on the horse.
Echryss
Member
Such a useful comment. I was wondering that myself! Its a shame we cant have MRI in Greece, but the only evidence is him protecting his foot (or hurting??) by turning/ curving it inside and up in the air when standing. But my question is: would a horse in pain, when left alone in the paddock, jump around and gallop repeatedly?? He constantly wants to play and jump. When we pass by a fence I really have to hold him, else he will run over it!
So you are saying that this might mean he is "mechanically lame" due to soft tissue damage. Ill have to ask, that's important to know. ( But that again, I seem to understand that might be even worse ? ?).
Omg, tons of questions for my vet... thanks so much everybody
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
Are you saying that when stood still he holds one foot up off the floor for periods of time? I'm sorry, but if that's the case I would put him to sleep tomorrow.
Yes horses often run around madly in a paddock when they are in pain. When in pain, they can be primed to react to the slightest stimulus because they are on the alert for the lion that's going to pick off the lame horse, and they know that horse is themselves. If he's high on adrenalin and other stress hormones, that's what's making him look 'playful'.
But if there is no pain and this lameness is mechanical, then it's because he has such a huge amount of damage inside his foot that it no longer functions properly as a foot, and that's also a situation I would not leave a horse in.
This is desperately sad for you, but in the UK I'm not sure many vets would be suggesting a second neurectomy, and almost certainly not without an MRI scan to find out what's going on first. Foot neurectomies are considered unethical by many vets and even more owners in the UK these days.
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Yes horses often run around madly in a paddock when they are in pain. When in pain, they can be primed to react to the slightest stimulus because they are on the alert for the lion that's going to pick off the lame horse, and they know that horse is themselves. If he's high on adrenalin and other stress hormones, that's what's making him look 'playful'.
But if there is no pain and this lameness is mechanical, then it's because he has such a huge amount of damage inside his foot that it no longer functions properly as a foot, and that's also a situation I would not leave a horse in.
This is desperately sad for you, but in the UK I'm not sure many vets would be suggesting a second neurectomy, and almost certainly not without an MRI scan to find out what's going on first. Foot neurectomies are considered unethical by many vets and even more owners in the UK these days.
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doodle
Well-Known Member
If he is holding his foot up when standing then he is in pain!
And yes he could run around madly. Soli had had 1/3 pedal bone removed. Then infection came back. I went to say goodbye to him at the vets. He was incredibly sore even doped up with painkillers. He was also incredibly stressed and was careering round the stable. The goodbyes were cut short as he was so distressed.
And yes he could run around madly. Soli had had 1/3 pedal bone removed. Then infection came back. I went to say goodbye to him at the vets. He was incredibly sore even doped up with painkillers. He was also incredibly stressed and was careering round the stable. The goodbyes were cut short as he was so distressed.
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
The horse routinely stands on 3 legs?
Pinkvboots
Well-Known Member
Horses don't associate running around with causing them pain necessarily, if his unable to put weight on it whilst standing it is a welfare issue so if it can't be treated he should be pts.
Echryss
Member
Thanks. Very helpful, but really difficult for me to handle.
Today he was not lame (he usually is not when walking or cantering. Only when trotting. But we dont trot or canter anymore. Just walk). And he stood firm on 4 feet. But, oh how tense he was when I had to put the ice on... Really overeacted to all stimuli. Didn't stop moving back and forth. I have to stand with him all through these 20 minutes of iceing, talking to him and looking at him straight in the eyes...
Echryss
Member
No, not routinely. Walks pretty well, but when standing, 1/3 of the time he doesnt put same weight on both feet and when at ease (eg eating grass), curves his foot. (Alltogether maybe 10-20 min a day, yet, not more. Yet.)
When he has to stand on the right leg for me to lift his left, he s not comfortable. Manages for 30 secs or so