2yr old thug

Britestar

Britestar

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Not sure if this is the right place, but not sure where else I could post.

My 2 yr old has turned into Kevin the teenager! We are having arguments about leading. He doesn't have to go far. To and from the field, a total of about 200yrds, but what a battle it can be!

If I let him dander along behind me, at the end of the leadrope then life is happy. But, I want him to lead properly and walk along side me. This is when the toys go out of the pram. He will refuse to walk forward. If I flick him with the leadrope behind my back he will go into reverse and then stamp his feet, striking out and digging holes. If I walk back to level with his shoulder he'll go backwards, or toss his head, then paw, dig charge forwards in a circle around me.

He is nearly 16hh and I'm 5'2", not the best combo! He doesn't care if he walks over the top of me (and has done many times). When he tosses his head, I move away. I've had my face/nose/mouth bashed too many times by him and I rather like my teeth! He's stood on me, knocked me over, you name he's done it.

I don't think he's being bad as such, he's just trying his luck, but I need some ideas how to get him past this phase.

Any ideas please?
 
I don't think you need ideas, I think you need someone experienced with youngsters to show you what to do. SO much of it is about timimg & attitude & those are difficult to explain in words but relatively easy to show in person. If I were you I' ask round for some local recommendations & get some help asap.
 
I have plenty of experience, I bred his mother who is 18yrs - (and incidentaly was worse than him in many ways) plus 4 other foals, all of whom I still have aged 14 - 20 years.
Its just that I've gone the all the usual things, and he is just a bit of a challenge.

Funnily enough, I asked the owner of the stallion if many of his youngsters were like him, and she said they can be a bit 'dim' about learning, but get it in the end.
 
Have you tried a schooling whip, tap him behind you as your walking? You could get him used to it a little maybe with someone else leading too? Eskadron have a head collar with a chain on it, I used one on a bolshy colt I had to lead, if he wouldn't walk forward send him backwards, then reward forwards.
I have had to lead bolshy stallions, it is about being in the right position at the right time. Can you practice walking and halting, then he may get the idea to keep up with you? You could send him backwards too. A lot of people use the b nice type head collars, I haven't but maybe they are worth a try?
 
He will stop and stand when told. He steps back when you enter his stable. I'm alone so not practical to have someone else. I did buy a b nice off ebay, but sadly too small for his bucket head! I'm a little reluctant to use a chain as he's not mega keen on you touching his head at the best of times. To get a fly veil on, you have to out it over his back and then creep it up his neck until you reach his head. Not a chance of pulling his forelock out, and I worry a chain would make him fussier, but I do have one so will attach it and see. Thanks.

If I let him wander along behind me he's as good as gold, but that not going look nice in the dhow ring is it! :)
 
I don't condone tip bitting, but maybe try treats to encourage him forward? Or if he's a riffy bugger like mine a good itch? Think it will be trial end error till you find the secret. They go through these phases all the time, little monkeys. Good luck with him
 
One of my two years old wasn't so much thuggy as easily distracted when leading.

I spent some time in the school with her with a long schooling whip in my right hand (ie. hand nearest her) which I could flick her with whenever she started to slow down. I also did this trotting in hand with her and she soon got the idea.

On a separate note, another of my youngsters really objected to having his ears (and mane) touched. I spent time in the stable with him just gently rubbing his forehead with my right hand and then I would start rubbing lower down his neck with left hand working up to his ears. If he tried to jerk away I would stop rubbing with my right hand and use it to lower his head by pulling gently down on the back of his headcollar whilst keeping my left hand lower down his neck.
 
Have you tried using a bridle. Wont do him any harm at his age and if you want to show him then he will need bitted anyway.

That way you could use a bridle and the schooling whip. Maybe use a lunge line aswell, for your own safety.

Sounds like its just going to take a lot of groundwork with him.
 
Where are you based? I had a similar problem with my Friesian, they can also be a bit slow. :D

There are several "other ways" to deal with this - without getting bashed. I am also only 5ft 2 and object to being used as a human springboard... :D

My preferred method would involve groundwork. It is slightly more involved. Firstly in a normal headcollar clip the lead rope onto the side ring on the cheek and thread the rope, from the inside out, through the ring on the nose. Not the underneath one. What this does is takes the pressure away from the poll. A surprising number of horses object to this. I would then stand so my body is facing him - parallel - hold headcollar where leadrope is threaded, with thumb and forefinger and apply slight "up and over" pressure.
With schooling whip stroke his back, down to loin a few times and then tap him lightly on the loin whilst encouraging him with the "up and over" movement from the front. This way takes a bit longer, but is more controlled, slower and safer. It encourages him to step from behind and is do-able with one person! I have used this method on quite a few large, bargy, unbalanced horses and still have my toes, to prove it. LOL

OR - Is there space for you to have him on a slightly longer rein? Get a schooling whip and send him on that way. Ok it is not in a straight line but hopefully he'll get the message. It will allow you to step back out of his way. Literally almost lunging him, but not...

Feel free to PM me if the first method sounds confusing... :)
 
Why are you trying to lead at his shoulder? This puts the horse where you cannot control them and technically you are invading his space here (i.e. you could kick him)

My youngsters walk behind me, stop when I stop and go when I go. They follow me as if I was a horse, and don't invade my space.
 
CotswoldSJ said:
Why are you trying to lead at his shoulder? This puts the horse where you cannot control them and technically you are invading his space here (i.e. you could kick him)

My youngsters walk behind me, stop when I stop and go when I go. They follow me as if I was a horse, and don't invade my space.
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I absolutely would not tolerate a youngster walking behind me, and testiment to that is a friend who allowed a youngster to do that and ended up with a front leg on her shoulder. If you can't invade their space on your terms, they will never respect you. The correct way to lead (as far as I am concerned) is at the shoulder. Should you wish to show a horse/pony, the impulsion comes from the handler being at the shoulder and in effect producing the same forwardness as if you are riding. The animal is then springing along at your side because it wants to be with you.
 
My suggestion would be a bridle to start with and then drop a lunge line behind him so when you are leading him (if you are proficient at long reining this will be easy) you have the line behind him to encourage him forward. When he ignores you, flick him on his quarters and it will "push" him along. I've used this method with a lot of TB's and it's worked well. Just need to be good with a handful of reins! It's also great as you can lead from the shoulder and if he gets particularly bolshy you can get him going forward or even into a little trot as you'll have plenty of control with the long reins.
 
You need a long schooling whip - the lead rope flicking will be of no use whatsoever.

And experienced as you are - you'll know that most 'boys' go through this thug stage.

But good consistant handling, a good long schooling whip and patience will be your reward.
 
Sorry, Kevin the Teenager already lives with me. Or he used to until he went to school 7 weeks ago. See my previous posts.

I absolutely also will not tolerate any youngster behind me. You are in such a dangerous position, my horse struck my YO on the shoulder last year and nearly broke her shoulder. So you must have them not in your space but walking with you. And my lad is 17.1hh.

I use an Eskadron safety headcollar with the chain over his nose which only comes into effect when they are messing around and I always carried a schooling whip to keep distance between me and him. To be honest we spent ages on ground work in the arena, learning to back up, move away, not invade my space etc etc as my boy was quite happy to throw his weight around. I found it very challenging as did Richard Maxwell who visited him as a yearling and proclaimed he had never met such an opinionated yearling in his life.

Work on the groundwork, I didn't find the Be nice effective for my lad, I also used the rope halter which Richard Maxwell uses for leading/groundwork and it helped also

Keep us posted
 
Gosh - you should definately not have a youngster walk behind you, very dangerous as they are unpredictable no matter how well you think you know them. They should walk out in front with you by their shoulder so you are aware of what they are doing at all times.

Back to the OP - my 2yr old used to be a pain to lead aswell so i used to carry a schooling whip with me when i caught him in and turned him out, id just flick him gently behind - it was more than enough to get him walking forwards and next to me. Hes excellent at leading now and i dont need to carry a stick anymore :)
 
Ditto everyone else I can think of nothing more dangerous than a youngster behind you.

I have had the thug from hell and what helped me enormously was a dually halter. It gave me the leverage I needed to instigate some control and respect. I would recommend one to anyone with a bargy disrespectful horse, used correctly they are a godsend.
 
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